What pharmaceutical companies don't want you to know about depression. Plus how I helped a friend..

Originally posted by an0nThinker
Back Story: About a year ago I was trying to help a good friend loose weight. A few times she had mentioned that before going on depression medication she had no real weight gain problems. I know she was eating clean and exercising but kept hitting a wall after the first 30-40 pounds. Around the same time my mom was given some Vitamin D supplements outside the US for depression instead of any of the big pharma stuff. The more I read into in the more it seemed like depression meds were not a good idea. Plus my friend get really hard to deal with if she ever missed a dose of Effexor.

She talked to her doctor about getting off Effexor, who at first was not supportive but did make a plan for her. I read that a lot of people were going to compound pharmacies to get off depression medication and failing to get off Effexor.

This is the point I started searching for supplements that could help with withdrawals. What I found was astounding; there is a whole side of the medical community that does not like depression medications. A lot of these medications have mechanisms that are not completely understood. Add to this the concept of evergreening(changing around the molecule ever so slightly to maintain patents). Countless stories of how peoples lives had been destroyed on depression medication.

The first study of interest I found was how micro nutrients are linked to depression. The reason (that I could see was preservation of profits) to not test for deficiencies is astounding. Most doctors know nothing significant about nutrition and their knowledge of biochemistry is limited. The whole system is meant on making customers instead of curing.

Nutritional biochemistry is not a subject with which most psychiatrists, psychologists, and psychopharmacologists are familiar. A stream of recent epidemiological studies and clinical trials, however, indicates that understanding of nutritional biochemistry is soon going to be essential for anyone working with mentally ill patients

journals.cambridge.org...

Clinical deficiencies of several vitamins and minerals result in depression. Nutrients that have received particular attention with relation to depression include omega-3 fatty acids, folate, cobalamin, and zinc. Antioxidant nutrients are other potentially beneficial dietary factors that should be investigated. Body weight issues may be related to depression and anxiety in very complex ways. Dietary strategies to prevent and treat depression are inexpensive and low risk and therefore warrant consideration in future research and clinical applications.

ajl.sagepub.com...

There are people with genes that do not regulate vitamin B, fatty acid, micro nutrient absorption correctly. These are testable and no doctor tests for them. Theoretically supplementation of such nutrients plus a correction in diet combined with support/ therapy(for life changing circumstances) should cure most depression.

Diet- The American phenomenon of adding sugar instead of fat. You could be short of the fatty acids needed for your brain to function. Add to that the uncertainty of GM food (could not find any studies on this; nothing of this sort; linking GM -> depression would ever get funded). Even being constipated could cause depression.

Here is a list of changes we made-
1) Water- We added filters where ever possible. Trying to avoid fluoride.
2) Diet- Limited the oils to Organic olive oil and grapeseed oil. She did a juice fast for a little while. Complete avoidance of MSG, food coloring, processed food. Increased water intake. More fresh fruits and vegetables. Limit intake of meat/ poultry/ fish to 10% of the diet.
3) Exercise - 3 to 4 times a week with cardio.
3) Supplements- Throwing the whole kitchen sink.
Whole food multivitamin - This uses chelates(better absorption)
Omega 3 fatty acids
journals.psychiatryonline.org...
Methionine (not SAM-e)
www.livestrong.com...
Tryphophan
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
5-HTP
Not any more but when coming off the effexor in small doses
Probiotics
articles.mercola.com...

Other things we looked at - Saffron, ashwagandha (adaptogens)
She also takes - Coq-10, Turmeric

Warning: Please talk to your doctor before making any changes.

edit on 6-4-2013 by an0nThinker because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-4-2013 by an0nThinker because: (no reason given)

The only thing I would add to your list is Potassium Iodide...
...you can get it in a clear liquid form and need only three drops per day.

Originally posted by rickymouse
If a persons copper levels are too high, they can get depression. Copper enzymes break down some of the brain chemicals. Taking turmeric helps because it inhibits the breakdown of the MAOs Taking molybdenum supplements for a couple of weeks lowers copper levels in the liver. Or you could add more tyramines to the diet which include aged food including beer and booze

Choose your medicine

If a person has grey/white hair chances are they are copper deficient...
...as hair color needs copper and tyrosine.

My husband works for a pharm lab and hates taking meds! One thing he learned in med school is that medicines that heal are also poisons- it is all in dosage and combinations that one makes the difference. Once you have three different medicines combined, the effects are not even predictable anymore.
In his opinion, one should only use medicines as a last resort, in serious (life threatening) cases.

In Europe I did find there is a different attitude towards many treatments- I found out that taking Zinc can completely heal a bad acne problem, and is the most common treatment prescribed for it- and yet years of being treated by dermatologists in the US, and never once was that suggested! Only harsh medicines like antibiotics, that would require other medicines to treat the side effects.

For depression, they often prescribe Magnesium. Usually in the form of foods containing it, and natural minerals waters that are high in Mag.

Plants and herbs are prescribed by doctors too- at the pharmacist, you can pick up your dried herbs for treating various problems. They also do not trust combination vitamin supplements in pill form. The common belief here is that the nurtrients are found in combinations that make assimilation optimum in their natural sources; once isolated and processed, they are no longer helpful, and can even be detrimental to health.


I dont know if that is true, but I have never been able to percieve any noticeable benefits when taking vitamin supplements in pill form!

I also had a bad chronic sinusitis problem once, and a doctor prescribed that I go to a natural spring treatment center- where each day I would sit in a cave with the vapors of a hot natural spring. It cured my problem immediately- and forever!

My gf drinks a lot of water (1 gallon jug a day ), is a fitness coach, exercises a ton, takes multivitamins, tried the 5htp (sucked), tryptophan, ashwanda, etc. Nothing helped alleviate her deep depressionand nightly crying spells as Wellbutrin XL did. Nothing. The meds gave her confidence and the bright outlook she never had. Totally life changing for the better. I despise big pharma and their underhanded ways, but on this medication they get the tip of the hat.

reply to post by an0nThinker


Thank you for posting this. It is an incredible conspiracy, what the psychiatric system is and what it does.. Most people will simply not accept that psychiatry is a flawed system - to the point that it is meant not to help but to in fact cause the problems themselves. Regardless of that everyone should realize pumping up on chemicals, least of all the unknown ones with corrupt 'studies' done to permit their legal push on people, is NEVER a good idea!

I hope many read your post and benefit from it.

reply to post by troubleshooter


Too much molybdenum makes your hair turn white. Too much Selenium and you get thinning of hair. Both are essential but have to be in balance. I prefer to study foods because food nutrients are better than supplements. The problem comes when you can't make the proper enzymes for various reasons.

reply to post by rickymouse


I grew some shard in the back yeard a few years ago. And wow is all I can say. Watch out if your a man.

reply to post by Bluesma


I wish we had doctors that prescribed some herbs around here. All I find is pill pushers or doctors that give you general information of life style changes and not particulars. Eat more healthy foods is their answer....Everyone needs different foods, what is healthy for one person is unhealthy for another.

My wife looks at me as if I am crazy because I can't eat tomato products too much. She makes a big pot of spaghetti and expects me to love it. She wants stews with a whole jug of tomato juice in it. She could eat pizza five days a week. I can't even get her to eat foods I need. She knows she would get sick from them, but she says it is because she doesn't like them that she doesn't eat them. Why doesn't she like them is the question. I could force them on her and I know she would have a serious and real reaction to them that is not psychosomatic. I understand a lot of the interactions of food in the body. I will not force my foods on her. She can't totaly understand this though.

My daughter with her has similar food needs as I do for some reason but she also has my blood type. My daughter and I are working on antidotes and necessities together. She has gone for training at a real Yoga training facility in India for a four year training course...Four three months courses with follow up teaching/training with different graduated practitioners. I've been trying to cross ayurvedic medicine to Pharma medicine now, there are similarities once you learn what they are trying to say in that culture.

If I would have completed medical school, which would have been fully funded by people I knew at the time, I probably would have lost my license within a few years for practicing things that were not approved by the medical trade. I can think well and evaluate what I see. I know how they train doctors. I know that I wouldn't have had to listen to the conditioning that was taught, but I wanted to help people and not get rich. Most others in the field were doing it for the money not to help people.

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by rickymouse

 

I grew some shard in the back yeard a few years ago. And wow is all I can say. Watch out if your a man.

I gotta ask....Why exactly did you say that. I can spend three hours trying to find out by studying everything associated with the statement or I can just ask you, someone with personal experience. I spent twenty minutes already studying it. Please be more specific, I can't investigate something when I have no clue which way to look

It is amazing to me just how many people are on anti-depression meds,.The most common
issue I find as the culprit, is a complete lack of nutrition. I also blame all the GMO frakenfoods
that are pushed,. So many parents started feeding their kids cans of this and boxes of that, rather
than actually cooking real meals.. not from a box. I watched the film "Food Matters" a few years
ago,. in it a woman was severely depressed,. and was mostly cured by large doses of Niacin, and
so this is a clear sign she was very malnourished. A friend of mine and his wife were both on anti-D
drugs,I told them to research niacin and other natural cures,.and to really focus on real foods rather
than boxed and canned or fast foods.. and they have both gotten away from the meds,.

So for me the simple resolve is,. eat healthy, be active,. and of course drink plenty of water.

reply to post by rickymouse
Just saying that fresh greens like shard are just unreal as far as energy level. They make you feel great. They have a very noticeable effect on the mind and body, right out of the garden.

reply to post by Shuye

Shuye,
I agree. Too many people are told to be happy all the time. This is truly a flawed concept.

There are no studies that prove that Serotonin flooding in the brain is the root of depression(it can however make you feel better). Blocking neurotransmitters to flood the brain just does not make sense to me. Further name one doctor that tests for base levels of Serotonin, what are these base levels anyway? No real research.

reply to post by Ameilia


Ameilia,
Thanks for the complement! I had been reading as much as I could to help my friend. I believe at most I scratched the surface as far as brain neuro /biochemistry is concerned. Asia/ Europe has a lot of physicians that do not push big pharma and try to get to root of the problem.

You have to take magnesium for three months to get a benefit, says DeRossett. "People sometimes give up on it too soon." Taking the correct dosage is important as well: 500 mg magnesium, 400 mg riboflavin (vitamin B-2), and 150 mg coenzyme Q10.

www.webmd.com...
www.webmd.com...

It looks like you have done your part with supplements. Where are you buying these from? How old are you and your husband?(you could give me a ball park if your uncomfortable)

This is the multivitamin that my friend takes.
www.swansonvitamins.com...

With omega fatty acids 6,9 are not essential for reducing inflammation(can increase it in some cases, omaga 3-6 need to be in a specific ratio). Please just stick to omega-3. With your cooking oils try walnut oil. It is high in omega 3's. You can also try olive oil, organic butter occasionally.
theconsciouslife.com...

When taking Coq, older people have problems processing it. You should take ubiquinol if your in your 30's or older at a low dosage.
www.swansonvitamins.com...

Since you have kept food diaries. Are you consuming any artificial sweeteners? Please stop. Especially aspartame and sucralose(splenda). No zero calorie foods, sodas at the super market. Not even stevia.

Please limit or if possible eliminate dairy. No milk, cheese, butter is fine in small quantities.

Do you buy a lot of dinners? Dips? Chips? Noodles? Please figure out how to look for MSG. When eating out ask restaurants if they use any ? This might be my most important advice.
www.msgtruth.org...
www.organicconsumers.org...

For your husband you can try some of the things I have mentioned earlier. You can get him tested for nutritional deficiencies, that really helped my mom.
Note: This is not medical advice. I am not a doctor.

reply to post by rickymouse


The "eating for your bloodtype" idea is an interesting one, isn't it??
Eversince I was very young I recognized that I couldn't deal well with breads or pasta or dairy, and was only drawn to veggies and meat. Then I read the blood type theory and found that I was eating exactly what it claimed was right for my blood type. Made me wonder....
--------------------------





I almost bought this book yesterday-



Anyone read it? I wonder if the author covers any research into the effects upon us of things like depression due to bad eating habits? I am not exposed to thigns like premade and fast foods, so I felt it is less relevant for me, but I will be back in the US soon, and thinking maybe I should have myself mentally prepared for the onslaught of temptation that I know starts to hit me as soon as I am in an american airport.....

We have a compounded problem: doctors are way, way too quick to prescribe antidepressants and joe public is too quick to take antidepressants ( and they have zero clue about how serious of a drug they are).

First, when you actually look at the drug literature, few antidepressants actually work better than placebo for reducing depression. They have serious side effects, and it is not easy to just stop taking them. I don't think that most people realize when they fill that first prescription that they are potentially looking at taking a drug forever.

I see patients coming in that are on 4 and 5 psychotropic meds. I see people that have been given them for anything from actual depression, to insomnia, Pms, menopausal symptoms, old age, fatigue, etc. it's criminal. And I would hazard to say that at least half of the people I see are on multiple antidepressants. There are virtually no studies on using them long term, or in combination.

When my (stillborn) son died, virtually every doctor I saw tried to push antidepressants on me before they even spoke to me. I'm sorry, but grief is a normal human emotion. We don't need to medicate it away. Looking at the medical industry from that perspective, I can see how so many patients have been put on the meds for no good reason.

reply to post by Bluesma


Blood type might be relevant to the discussion as well. Kudos if it works for you.
Although I have not read seems like it illustrates how companies have us hooked in. When I am at the supermarket I will never go into the isles unless I explicitly need something. I look at the fruit, vegetables to browse.
I did buy a book recently
www.amazon.com...
Haven't got the chance to read it but has excellent reviews.

reply to post by rimjaja


Rimjaja,
Are you a physician, NP? What I find heart wrenching is that doctors won't even look what the root cause is. They'll start you out on some drug and keep on adding to the cocktail. Almost till the point your in a zombied out happy high state.
My friend has some metabolic testing done. She burns sugar at rest (no one should really, and thus cannot loose weight), I personally know a fat researcher that says that they will disqualify people from studies on anti-depressant medication especially effexor (without reason, they do not want to sued). Her brain chemistry has almost been irreparably changed on a cocktail of drugs, the doctor has no idea what he was doing.

Over the last 33 years as we have removed saturated fats from our diets, rates of depression in the population have trended upwards, childhood behavioural problems have trended upwards, heart disease has trended upwards. The fact that sat. fat has never been shown in studies to block arteries or cause heart disease hasn't stopped nutritionists and the zealots who invented the food pyramid from prescribing low-fat diets. The body needs saturated fats to function effectively but we have been refusing to provide it. We are now reaping the seeds that were sown by Ancel Keys et al 50 years ago. To much money is made treating the problem for big pharma to care about the causes. You can't make any money from people eating their way to health.

Prescription: Remove sugars, wheat,and starchy carbs from your diet and eat more eggs and meat with the fat left on it. Be happy

Vitamin and water deficiencies are all well and good. I also theorize that depression in the mental sense is a kind of sleep disorder.
Hear me out. Anxiety and depression often go hand in hand. Plus, people with depression tend to dream several times more than normal during the night.

That overload of dreaming is caused, I believe, by the sheer amount of rumination that someone with depression does during the day. So much worrying, anxiety and general spinning of one's wheels in place.

(I can relate directly, because I used to be depressed myself.)

Anyway, that overload of rumination results in tons of negative and anxiety-filled dreams. That makes a person exhausted and depressed in the morning. And so the feedback loop continues.

People with depression had their dreams suppressed in a study. As a result, their depression lifted. Unfortunately, the brain loves its dreams, as run-down as they make it (what a masochist, seriously), and it's known that going without dreams creates bad effects. So something else has to be done.

(Speaking of Effexor, I wouldn't touch that medication with a ten-foot pole. One's tolerance to it has a limit before it finally stops working, and the withdrawal process is apparently a living hell, so much that people just continue to take it rather than undergo the torture.)

Originally posted by Aleister
Watch the ads for depression medicine and check the "depression hurts" symptoms. They are symptoms of dehydation (aching muscles, dry mouth, etc). Sites like Watercure.com and Watercure2.com claim that depression itself is a symptom of dehydration. In many cases, drinking enough water daily may cure or at least lessen depression. The ads don't lie (hahahahahaha), the side-effects of depression medicine are what happens when you try to keep what little water most people drink inside the body, and the side-effects also attempt to make you drink more water.

Depression hurts is referring to fibromyalgia. As fibromyalgia is one of the disorders they claim the med helps.
the problem is many with fibromyalgia are not depressed and should not be taking antidepressants.
this medication will only make people with fibro worse in the long run (two plus years)

Fibro fog can be mistaken for depression and only about 20% with fibromyalgia are helped pain wise by anti depressants.
The other 80% are hurt by taking them for fibro pain because they cause weight gain. heart attacks. metabolic syndrome, diabetes and BPH in older men.
If you can not exercise because of fibro pain and are taking antidepressants you are going to become obese.

There are no lab test for depression and and no lab test for Serotonin levels so there is no way to tell if antidepressants are working and if your Serotonin levels are low in the first place (the cause of depression.)
And the Depression Screening Test questions are rigged so that most people with fibromyalgia fail and are classed as depressed.

In some cases methylphenidate (Ritalin) and /or modafinil (Provigil, Alertec) will work for treating depression with out the dangers of weight gain. heart attacks. metabolic syndrome, and diabetes