I Need a Muslim (or Somebody) to Make This News Understandable and Acceptable.

Originally posted by squarehead666
In answer to your first question.....I'm a pagan.

As for the rest, it seems to me that there is a desire in the west to portray Islam as a threat, so naturally more attention is focussed on extremist groups.

islam does not respect freedom FROM religion, that's all I need to know that it is a threat. each human must be able to decide for himself what to believe in without retribution, as long as that belief does not harm others. I don't see why this is so hard to understand.

reply to post by charles1952


Interesting post. Thank you for bringing it to our attention...

Western lack of outrage / media coverage may be something to do with vested interests in the Middle East ?

( Or maybe we just don't care...? )

This is simple. Now repeat after me P-E-T-R-O D-O-L-L-A-R. Why is it that they didn't even get touched when the sep 11 attack was traced back to them. They are funding religious madrassas every where they can. These schools teach intolerance but nothing ever happens..

reply to post by charles1952


My father is an ex-muslim and he truly hates how countries are run by religion rather than logic. A country is either Christian, Jewish or Muslim regardless of its citizen's beliefs. This is exactly the stuff that I hate about religion. Why do people exclude others due to their differences? I know Muslims are shunned in America, but that's way better than what these fools are doing. They plan on wiping out a certain religion regardless of its citizen's wishes - this is a sign that the government is run based on emotions rather than logic.

Although we are centuries away from worldwide synchronization, we need to understand that the media ALWAYS needs a 'good guy' and a 'bad guy' to make a story interesting. CNN is emotionally biased - it may be subtle, but as a writer for a renowned magazine, I know how to spot these biases.

By using the classic, "This happened, so what do you think?" They try to make you convince yourself there are bad guys and good guys. I can tell you that the religious radicals you see in the Middle East are as rare as rednecks in America. My father is agnostic due to the fact that he moved to Canada and he never did believe in religion in the first place.

I seem to be drifting from the path, so I'll sum it up. This article is true in every aspect - an emotional, religious person seeks to vanquish a certain religion as much as the next guy. I ask that you do not perceive people of a certain faith to harbour these attributes as I know many Muslims that are quite logical. As an atheist, I respect people of all faiths; be it Jewish, Christian, Catholic or Muslim - I have been brought up that way.

The next time you see something on the news; ANYTHING on the news, try to assess it. Find biases in the article; did they state there was a 'bad guy' and a 'good guy'? If they gave you anything more than cold, hard facts then take the story VERY lightly and form a logical, non-emotional reasoning behind it.

Peace be upon you,

Stock Loc

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by squarehead666
In answer to your first question.....I'm a pagan.

As for the rest, it seems to me that there is a desire in the west to portray Islam as a threat, so naturally more attention is focussed on extremist groups.

islam does not respect freedom FROM religion, that's all I need to know that it is a threat. each human must be able to decide for himself what to believe in without retribution, as long as that belief does not harm others. I don't see why this is so hard to understand.

All religions do not respect each other. The only reason Christianity and Judaism sort of 'get along' is because their ideals are similar. Islam is exponentially different from the two which is why it is hated the most in the western world. As an atheist, I feel like the 'teacher in the schoolyard'. All religions are different to me, but I have an equal respect for each one of them. I feel the need to educate a religious person when they see another religion as a threat.

Islam is not a threat, its ideals are based on peace. However, it has been 'spoiled' so to speak. Anti-Zionist/Anti-Christian radicals are beginning to hate those who do not practise their violent religious values. Radical, rebellious leaders created a 'new testament' stating that by taking the life of an infidel, you will gain access to heaven.

As I previously stated, Islam is not a threat; radical Islam is. The radicals are the equivalent of the 'KKK' - the people there think them crazy. Most Muslims hate them for blowing up their homes and giving them a bad reputation with other religions. Simply put, as much as we hate their culture; they hate us the same. We're as racist as them, we can't deny that.

Regards,

Stock Loc

reply to post by StockLoc

Dear StockLoc,

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful words. I agree with you that not everyone, in any group, supports the positions of it's leaders. Many just want to be left alone.

I tried, in looking at the article, to be concerned only with the reported words. These caused me to have some serious concern.

My fear, if you don't mind me repeating myself, is three-fold. 1) Will this sway some otherwise uninvolved Mulims to become more aggressive? 2) Will it provide those who are already violent with encouragement and support? 3) Will it increase the level of fear of Islam in the rest of the world? None of those would be good things.

My hope is that these leaders exercise restraint, or have their governments restrain them. Further, I would like the governments and the people to show less tolerance for violence. It's a dangerous situation and, as in North Korea, shouting threats isn't very helpful.

With respect,
Charles1952

P.s. Please correct any of my statements that you disagree with. This is one of the few major problems the world is facing and I'd like to understand it better. - C -

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by StockLoc

 

Dear StockLoc,

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful words. I agree with you that not everyone, in any group, supports the positions of it's leaders. Many just want to be left alone.

I tried, in looking at the article, to be concerned only with the reported words. These caused me to have some serious concern.

My fear, if you don't mind me repeating myself, is three-fold. 1) Will this sway some otherwise uninvolved Mulims to become more aggressive? 2) Will it provide those who are already violent with encouragement and support? 3) Will it increase the level of fear of Islam in the rest of the world? None of those would be good things.

My hope is that these leaders exercise restraint, or have their governments restrain them. Further, I would like the governments and the people to show less tolerance for violence. It's a dangerous situation and, as in North Korea, shouting threats isn't very helpful.

With respect,
Charles1952

P.s. Please correct any of my statements that you disagree with. This is one of the few major problems the world is facing and I'd like to understand it better. - C -

1. It won't sway the 'true' Muslims (the ones who practise the original premise of peace) to act, but it WILL influence the easily manipulated Muslims. I'm talking about the ones who believe everything their Sheikh (priest) says. This isn't necessarily a threat to America, but it will contribute to the tensions that have already been established between the three major religions.

2. Yes, it will. This is sort of 'feeding the fire'. It's like telling a member of the 'KKK' that an African immigrant burned down a church. They will immediately respond to ALL Africans they see. There will always be the logical religious person, but for the most part; the weak-minded sheep will follow based on their hatred. The war in Iraq hasn't helped our relations at all. In fact, it's made the hatred towards anything western even more fierce. We destroyed countless buildings, killed a few citizens and increased tensions between civilians and radicals - they have a reason to hate us. This just gives them a reason to act.

3. Yes. The western world (Europe and America) won't 'fear' Islam, but they'll hate them. By destroying their places of worship, they'll retaliate with events similar to the burning of the Qu'ran and the lone gunman killing 'Muslim-looking' people.

Please note that I am doing my best not to be biased against Muslims, Christians or Jews. I harbour no hatred towards any of these parties; I am simply stating my observations. To summarize the history of religion: "We attacked them, we came back to our castle, they attacked us and we retaliated." The true victims of these religious wars are the children on both sides - they have been programmed with the 'us' and 'them' mentality. I urge you to not view anyone as 'them' as we all inhabit the same rock orbiting the same sun. Sure, our ideas may be different; but in the end, we are all human.

Your friend,

Stock Loc

If I were a Muslim I would protest via social media if my own religion took part in the destruction of other churches.

I do know middle east countries treat non-Muslims with great disrespect, flying to some countries you must declare your religion and are put in the non-Muslim line after doing so, this is told to me by a Muslim who I consider to be a good and honest guy.

If it's just rhetoric then it is understandable that it is being ignored on the surface but if I ran any news station I would at least condemn the rhetoric, if such rhetoric existed in the USA it would be immediately condemned.

The Muslim faith seems to respect other religions but it does not know Christianity, it claims in Christianity the Trinity is; God, Jesus and Mary. This is false, the Trinity is not this, Mary is not a god, never was a god and was never part of the Trinity. The Christian Trinity is this; God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. To truly respect Christianity Muslims need to know this. It is understandable to think Christians believe Mary to be a god after looking at a bastardized version of Christianity, but they should not make claims of knowing what a religion believes in by simply looking upon the surface. In no Christian scripture is Mary portrayed as a god, ever. Yet in the Muslim scripture God supposedly says Jesus claimed this, Jesus never claimed his mother was a god, ever. The falsehood of this claim is akin to a Muslim scripture claiming Scientology officially considers Tom Cruse to be a god. So in my opinion, the Muslim faith does not respect Christianity, yet I do have respect for Muslims, and I can say every single Muslim I have met has been a good hearted person.

reply to post by StockLoc

Dear StockLoc,

Please note that I am doing my best not to be biased against Muslims, Christians or Jews. I harbour no hatred towards any of these parties; I am simply stating my observations. To summarize the history of religion: "We attacked them, we came back to our castle, they attacked us and we retaliated." The true victims of these religious wars are the children on both sides - they have been programmed with the 'us' and 'them' mentality. I urge you to not view anyone as 'them' as we all inhabit the same rock orbiting the same sun. Sure, our ideas may be different; but in the end, we are all human.

You have presented yourself very well, I don't detect bias or hatred, your work has been admirable. I will do my best to live up to your standards. Thanks for your lesson.

Peace to you, be safe, and rest well.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by malchir


Islam doesn't think Christians see Mary as a God. They disagree that you have a 3 part god all together when the truth is that there is only "ONE" god who is the creator of everything, including me and you. Islam see Jesus as the "True Messiah" also. It comes down to a matter of interpretation though Islam does respect your religion also.

The war in Iraq hasn't helped our relations at all. In fact, it's made the hatred towards anything western even more fierce. We destroyed countless buildings, killed a few citizens and increased tensions between civilians and radicals - they have a reason to hate us. This just gives them a reason to act.

Ridiculous.

You obviously don't know any Iraqis, have contacts or relationships with any of them. I do. Just yesterday I did business with a family of Iraqis (Kurds) that purchased land 9 years ago that once belonged to my family. They came to America from Kurdistan after the area was liberated by the American military with help from French and Canadian solders. They are a proud family and devout Muslims who owe their entire existence to the American Government, their declaration of war, which freed them from Saddam Hussein, a tyrant and war criminal that was hung by a judgment of a jury of his own countrymen.

Their presence in this country has been problematic although they have finally settled into the community and are respected by most. It was not easy. What one must understand that to devout Muslims, religion, the Law and politics are all one in the same. However, business is different, they love American free enterprise and have flourished in it. That is the only way in which they could fit in to a community that mutually garnered suspicion was prevalent in all.

I delivered a piece of heavy equipment that the family leader, I affectionately call Dr. Kurd, needed to build a drainage pond for one of his orchards. As always, I can't exit my vehicle until the ranking(not the right term) male member has granted me permission and all the women have been placed out of site of me. Over the years I have devolved a kind of kinship with the old man and am always warmly greeted by all the males. They own several different companies and have adapted to capitalism although they still observe strict a religious creed that somewhat mystify me and their other neighbors.

Although I have never been able to convince them that I never was a military man and the concept of research baffles them, they have accepted me as an American Military annalist, which is somewhat true, and have never shied away from their admiration of the American Government for freeing them from Hussein.

Their family still in Kurdistan is enormous, even by Muslim standards, and few of them want to live in an American society however, they too, owe so much to the American military and their heroic deeds which you so easily discard. If you ever meet any Iraqis-just ask them!

reply to post by charles1952

Dear Charles
take a look at these statements of Quran carefully, please.

Permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory.
[They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Lord is Allah ." And were it not that Allah checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah is much mentioned. And Allah will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might.
Quran 22:40

so who are those which are after demolishing monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques !?
who is the sustainer of monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques !??
whom is invoked in monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques !???

reply to post by maes2

Dear maes2,

Thanks for offering me a way to learn. It may be a language problem, but I'm having just a little difficulty understanding the verses. Let me tell you what I think they say, and you can correct me as needed.

Permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory.

It's Ok to fight and have battles if someone has wronged you. It's possible that Allah will help you win.

[They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Lord is Allah ."

If you have to move because you're Muslim, that's a good enough reason for a fight or a battle.

And were it not that Allah checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah is much mentioned.

This one's not so clear. Does it mean that Allah uses people to prevent the destruction of buildings that various religions deem holy? Or just Islamic holy buildings, buildings in which Allah is worshipped?

And Allah will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might.

Allah's a strong god and he supports his supporters.

Before I offer an opinion, please let me know if I've understood it correctly.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952

Allah's a strong god and he supports his supporters.

You mean (arabic for) God is a strong God?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Dear sk0rpi0n,

You're right, of course. But I was seriously hoping for an answer from someone who will tell me whether I've got the meaning right. To be honest, it's difficult to discuss the Quoran when every third post is "But that's not what it means. You don't understand." I was hoping to short cut the process.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952

thank you for your attention. yes of course translations are always a problem and Bible is not an exception !
now I highlight the points in those Quran statements :
1- those who wars are waged upon them are allowed to defend themselves it is a natural rule.
2- in the first days of Islam muslims where evicted from their homes in Mecca by Polytheists and elites of Mecca. they had to move to a neighbour city called Medina where that was the city of Christians and Jews as well. Polytheists of Mecca were not friendly to monotheistic religions.
3- monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques are where Allah is mentioned a lot. it means that Christians, Jews and Muslims worship Allah in monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques.
this is why monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques are important for Allah.
yes Allah is the only God of monotheistic religions. for example you can read Quran that :

Say, "O People of the Scripture
(Christians and Jews), come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah ."
Quran 3:64

reality is that Arabic has Aramaic roots. and Aramaic was the language of Jesus. so you can consider Jesus would call God as Elaho or Alaho or something like these in Aramaic language.
4- God defends monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques by hands of it's righteous servants.

I hope this can help us to recognize those who are after crusades or those who are demolishing monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques and killing Christians and Muslims in Syria, Pakistan, Iraq or .......
yes elites and radicals are two sides of one coin. those elites who claim they are after human rights and those who violate human rights, they are all allies of eachother.
from middle of middle east I say that what I am witnessing with my eyes. the alliance of Radical Whabists and Salafists (ideologies of Alghaeda and Taliban) and those who are after synagogue of Satan !
this is the charactristic of last days. total hypocrisy.

Regards

I really do have difficulty getting my head around the concept of god writing books.

Surely the almighty could have just done a divine edit to the original text and avoided all these bloody arguments over the later editions?

From my perspective it all looks a bit silly.....Pagan was the best word I could come up with to describe my 'religious' views from your perspective. My beliefs are a lot more complex than that, involving aspects of gnosis, shamanism and many other techniques/forms.

What it amounts to is that I believe an individual's relationship with the divine is entirely personal and that each individual should be conscious of and judged on the quality of their actions.

reply to post by charles1952

as a complementary,
there are two sides in this world, those who worship Allah (God, Lord, Yahwe, or whatever you call it) and in general those who are at least committed to humanity .all of them are awaiting Jesus or a Messiah from the only God.
the other group are after synagogue of satan (whether they know it or not) they have masks of Islam or Christianity or Judaism or even humanity.
this distinction and hypocrisy will increase further and further till the arrival occurs.
what can we do !?
just denying ignorance.

Best Regards.

reply to post by maes2

Dear maes2,

Thank you for your post, my understanding of your words and ideas is growing. I'm curious about this:

this distinction and hypocrisy will increase further and further till the arrival occurs. what can we do !?

And that is my question as well. What is the Muslim world supposed to do until the arrival occurs? Allow those in the "Synagogue of Satan" to remain as they are? Attempt to persuade other countries to become Islamic? Conquer the infidels when Islam has the military strength to do that?

I'm still a member of the "Synagogue of Satan," and I can't see how that will change, but please remember me in your prayers, as I remember you.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952

there is no relation between Satan and Judaism !?
"synagogue of satan" is a sign.
lets be honest. satan has crawled into churches and mosques and synagogues.
yes I should have not used "synagogue of satan". then some jews may think I am insulting them. but I am speaking of a corruption. a corruption that you mentioned part of it. it is a threat to monotheistic religions.
a threat that just awareness can prevent it.
lets pray to Allah (God, Lord, Yahwe or whatever you call it) that the rescue of humanity comes soon.
Mohammad (pbuh) Never obliged the people of scripture (Christian and Jews) to convert to Islam. if you know that he did, let me know too.

Regards.