Women in Judaism.

Of late, there has been a lot of talk on ATS regarding Islamic misogyny. Some of the allegations being made are that Islam encourages wife beating and treats women as inferior and as objects. But what if you learned today that another prominent, but rarely scrutinized religion happens to teach, rather explicitly, that women as inferior?

Consider these teachings...

Wife beating.
-when her husband enters the house, she must rise and cannot sit down until he sits, and she should never raise her voice against her husband. Even if he hits her she has to remain silent, because that is how chaste women behave”

-Every woman washes her husband’s face and feet and pours him a cup and prepares his bed and stands and serves her husband. And any woman who refrains from doing any of these tasks that she is obligated to perform - is forced to do them, even by a whip

Thanking God for not being made a woman
-Blessed art thou, O Lord our God, King of the Universe, who hast not made me a heathen; who hast not made me a slave; who hast not made me a woman!

Women should stay indoors
-A husband would do well not to let his wife go outside, into the street, and should restrict her outings "to once or twice a month, as necessary, since a woman has no beauty except by sitting in the corner of her house."

Women are dumb
-The mind of woman is not suited to be taught, but only to words of nonsense.Women are light-minded and have little knowledge.

-And if a man and a woman are drowning in a river, first they'll save the man, who is obligated to perform more commandments, whereas a woman's wisdom is only in the spindle.

Women are trouble
-And it's not proper to speak to a woman too much, since all her conversation is nothing but words of adultery, and whoever talks to her too much causes evil to himself and will end up inheriting hell.

Women, dogs and pigs
A man must take care not to walk between two women or between two dogs or two pigs, and men should also not allow a woman or a dog or a pig to walk between them.

Don't give Torah to women
Words of Torah should be burned rather than being given to women."

and finally... the harshest one of them all...

Woman is a sack of excrement and her mouth is full of blood, but all run after her


All of those heavily misogynistic teachings are from Judaism.
Clearly, the Jewish religion contains abundant traces of misogyny. Some teachings like the last one are explicit and in your face, leaving no room for an alternate, softer interpretation. So why is it that people who are generally vocal about women's equality / rights remain fixated only on the Islamic perspective on women, but refrain from commenting on what the Jewish religion has to say on the matter?

Is Judaism somehow exempt from being portrayed as a misogynistic religion? Is it because people fear it would be anti-semitic to question whats written in Jewish scriptures?

Discuss.


Source 1
Source 2
Source 3
Source 4


From source 4, a Jewish site...

For many years there has been a myth that domestic violence among Jewish families was infrequent.
However, there is much data demonstrating that domestic abuse is a significant and under-recognized behavior in Jewish communities in Israel and the Diaspora.

Let's face it - not one of the Abrahamic religions look particularly good when it comes to their teachings about women. Christianity is equally as bad. They are all written and created by misogynists for misogynists.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat.

Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348

A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl.

Gad. Shas. 2:2

A boy-goy after nine years and one day old, and a girl after three years and one day old, are considered filthy.

Pereferkowicz, Talmud t.v., p. 11

R. Joseph said: Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition [intercourse], and if her deceased husband's brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. The penalty of adultery may be incurred through her; [if a niddah] she defiles him who has connection with her, so that he in turn defiles that upon which he lies, as a garment which has lain upon [a person afflicted with gonorrhoea].

Sanhedrin 55b


Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that.24 (24) I.e., Rab makes nine years the minimum; but if one committed sodomy with a child of lesser age, no guilt is incurred. Samuel makes three the minimum.

Sanhedrin 54b

Raba said. It means this: When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this [three years old], it is as if one puts the finger into the eye; but when a small boy has intercourse with a grown-up woman he makes her as 'a girl who is injured by a piece of wood.'...


A Jew may rob a Goy, he may cheat him over a bill, which should not be perceived by him, otherwise the name of God would become dishonoured.

Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat, 348

Sanhedrin 59a

To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly.

Awesome information

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Some of the allegations being made are that Islam encourages wife beating and treats women as inferior and as objects

Those are more than allegations. That's all the truth.

Clearly, the Jewish religion contains abundant traces of misogyny.

I'd say more than 'traces'. It's loaded with it!

So why is it that people who are generally vocal about women's equality / rights remain fixated only on the Islamic perspective on women, but refrain from commenting on what the Jewish religion has to say on the matter?

sk0rpi0n ... the reason why people are discussing the misogyny that runs all through Islam is because there are Muslims on this board pumping out how great Islam supposedly is. So naturally people respond with the facts that show otherwise.

You have started a good thread about how the Jewish faith has a lot of misogyny as well. Awesome!

The 'holy books' of the Muslims, the Jews, and the Christians are full of antiquated 'rules' that allegedly are from God, but in reality are from MEN who wrote down what the traditions of their day thought about women. The MEN wrote down what they thought women should behave like and then said it was from God. The MEN wanted to keep women under their control and/or as their property. IMHO - The men also seemed rather frightened of women having any kind of rights of their own. Like if women had their own voices and their own position in society then it threatened their manhood 'power' or something.

Most of Christianity has shed the Old Testament misogyny but a few of the fundamentalist Christian groups still cling to it. Some 'holiness' Christians I know won't allow the women to cut their hair or to wear pants or to swim in a swimming pool with the men. Some Baptist Christians I know won't allow women to wear pants at their church or in their school. That kind of thing ....

I know two Jewish people pretty well. That's it. And one of them became a Catholic last week at an Easter Vigil Mass. Neither of them were practicing Jews ... but still said they were 'Jewish'. So I can't speak as to if Jewish people in general pay any attention to the misogyny that is in their religion.

I am of the opinion that the world would be better off not clinging to the teachings in the antiquated 'holy books'. Obviously the Old Testament .. the old books of the Jews .. and the Qu'ran ... are outdated and 'dumb down' the population. It is good to keep the books of the Old Testament and old Jewish books for historical reference but as far as listening to what they teach and put them into practice .. well .. there is some good but a whole lot of silliness as well. So ... in my opinion .. it's time to move forward and evolve. The world today isn't the world of 1400 years ago (qu'ran) and it's not the world of 4,000 years ago (old testament).

There are too many neanderthals on this planet. Time to evolve.

As a Christian that was taught a true Christian is a Spiritual Jew and that Christianity is an extension of the Hebrew religion and having read much of these old writings, I can tell you, Yes, it's in there. These things are written and still practiced by some sects of Jews. There are even Jewish Talmud scriptures saying it's acceptable for a Jewish man to have sex with a 3 year old child! www.jesus-is-savior.com...

However, this is looked at like the old way by most Jews today except for the extremist Jews ( the Orthodox Zionists leaders of Israel)

Fact is there are far more Muslims practicing the atrocities to their women than there are Jews following these writings today.

Over the years most Jews have seen the err of their ways. It is the hope of many that the Muslims do likewise before more people get harmed.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Find some current videos of Jewish and Christian
women being stoned or beheaded and you
will command my attention.

Otherwise this is a EPIC FAIL.

www.amitiesquebec-israel.org...

www.wnd.com...

digitaljournal.com...

www.apostatesofislam.com...

www.stopahmadinejad.com...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

I see there are not too many takers for this thread. It tells a lot I guess.

-----------------------------------------


reply to post by slugger9787

Find some current videos of Jewish and Christian women being stoned or beheaded and you will command my attention.

Stoning and beheading have to do with law and punishment which is an entirely different subject. Strangely, you seem to think men are exempt from the harsh punishments the Islamic countries.

This thread addresses the status of women in Judaism... which for some reason, is being ignored, whereas a thread on women and Islam will run several pages. With Islam, certain verses are pasted over and over and people are like "see, Islam treats women as objects". But when its revealed that Judaism contains harsh teachings about women being "sacks of excrement" and they are stupid and should be submissive even when beaten..... all I hear is the sound of crickets.

I guess people cherry pick what religion to bash, when it comes to women. Its basically open season on Islam whereas Judaism gets a free pass. Like I said.... it tells a lot.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

Fact is there are far more Muslims practicing the atrocities to their women than there are Jews following these writings today.

An abusive husband is just that- an abusive husband, regardless of his religion. There is a good chance that he is a wicked person in other aspects of life as well.
Also, if the number of "muslim" wife beaters exceed the number of "Jewish" wife beaters, that would be because Muslims far exceed the number of Jews on the planet.

Also, read the 4th link I posted. Its from a Jewish website and its about domestic violence and the misogynistic teachings of Judaism.
They admit....

For many years there has been a myth that domestic violence among Jewish families was infrequent.
However, there is much data demonstrating that domestic abuse is a significant and under-recognized behavior in Jewish communities in Israel and the Diaspora.

Domestic Violence in Jewish Law

Over the years most Jews have seen the err of their ways. It is the hope of many that the Muslims do likewise before more people get harmed.

They have seen the error of their ways... they are just moving away from religion. Isreal (I'm saying Israel because its the worlds only Jewish state) is nearly 30% atheist/secular. According to a gallup poll.... nearly half the country is irreligious. But then again, this is a different subject by itself.

reply to post by FlyersFan

the reason why people are discussing the misogyny that runs all through Islam is because there are Muslims on this board pumping out how great Islam supposedly is. So naturally people respond with the facts that show otherwise.

Besides myself, there are 3 other users I know of who posts about and in defense of Islam. I don't see any of that "pumping out how great Islam supposedly is" which you claim.

As for the "facts" that you say people respond with, they are nothing more than links to anti-Islamic websites and their interpretation of it... or some report on Islamic terrorism or some nastiness in some third world country. Has nothing to do with Islam as a religion.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Is Judaism somehow exempt from being portrayed as a misogynistic religion? Is it because people fear it would be anti-semitic to question whats written in Jewish scriptures?

This just proves that the three major religions were man-made. A true god would consider women 100% equal to men.

You're quoting Rabbinic teachings. Not what all Jews consider canon, or the Word of God. Some Islamic teachings teach that if a fly falls in your drink, you need to dip it in completely, because the poison on one wing is countered by the antidote on its other wing. It's a teaching. It's wrong. And it's old. Does that mean it's something all Muslims believe?

There are people who come into an argument with prejudices in every scenario, and what they say is about them and their prejudices more than what a faith believes. If I were to quote Hitler and say, because he has brown hair, all people with brown hair agree with him?

reply to post by junglejake

You're quoting Rabbinic teachings. Not what all Jews consider canon, or the Word of God. Some Islamic teachings teach that if a fly falls in your drink, you need to dip it in completely, because the poison on one wing is countered by the antidote on its other wing. It's a teaching. It's wrong. And it's old. Does that mean it's something all Muslims believe?

Its obvious that Jews don't live their lives in accordance to their religious documents. I'm not saying that they do.

Despite the fact that heavily misogynistic teachings exist in Judaism, only Islam is scrutinized and Muslims portrayed as inherently misogynistic. People who do this seem to be shying away from doing the same to Judaism and Jews. Instead they make excuses and special plead.

Why the double standard?
If people don't believe Jews put into practice every single misogynistic teaching in their texts, why should they not use the same reasoning for Muslims?

reply to post by jiggerj

A true god would consider women 100% equal to men.

This isn't a thread about gender equality... but I'll address your post anyway.

The Koran teaches that males and females who believe and do good deeds will enter Heaven. So they are equal in the eyes of God.

But between a man and a woman... are they really equal in terms of roles and strengths?
Why is that since the dawn of history, the men have always been the hunter-gatherers and the women were to take care of the house and raise the children?

Scorpie

Its obvious that Jews don't live their lives in accordance to their religious documents. I'm not saying that they do.

Then what are they doing? They are treating their religious documents as what they are: the record of what human beings understood long ago as the revelation of God in history. Most of the Jewish book is about what humans later decide that they are going to do about the revelation, especially when the conditions in which the revelation occurred no longer hold.

As seems to be a revelation of its own to you in every one of your threads about non-Muslims' religious beliefs and practices, it isn't obvious that the correct reaction to such a text is to grovel in the dirt and do whatever the text says, from now until the end of the world. That that is your way is peachy, but it is not a basis for criticizing what other people think is the right thing to do.

Jews read their whole scripture, not cherry-picking the bits that help a Gentile grind his axe. When you read the whole thing, the Law turns out to be the constitution for a Bronze Age tribal state that God is telling the Jews to establish in greater Canaan. That constitution is pretty much par for the course among Bronze Age states advanced enough to have had the rule of law.

The day after that state ceased to exist, then the question arose "What is the status of the Law for a people without a state for the Law to be its constitution?" The text doesn't say. Whether or not a living person believes that God said the words attributed to him in the text, the circumstances in which the divine command was given no longer hold.

Many people who believe that God did say the words also believe that God gave each man and woman intelligence and the possibility of discernment. So, it is a possible, if not obligatory, inference that God started his people on a course of dveelopment, with the expectation that they would use their endowment to adapt his instructions to secular changes. The Law may be, then, the suit of animal skins in Genesis 3, God's gift to get the First Couple started, but with the expectation that later clothing would be their responsibility.

It's fine and dandy if you disagree with that approach, and prefer to have a Seventh Century society because that's the last time God spoke, according to your reckoning. But, Jews don't believe that. So,

If people don't believe Jews put into practice every single misogynistic teaching in their texts, why should they not use the same reasoning for Muslims?

Because it wouldn't occur to most educated living Jews to do in the modern age what was permissible, some of it even progressive, in the Bronze Age, but no longer in modern society. Demonstrably, it does occur to many Muslims, as some of their religious advisers tell their listeners, to do things that were pemissible, some of it even progressive, in the late ancient Iron Age, but no longer in modern society.

The Jewish and the Muslim texts could be identical, but the different peoples differ in their understanding of the proper relationship between what any text says and how they should behave. Thus, a fair observer looks upon the two groups differently, even while realizing that there is much diversity of thought and behavior within both groups.
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n

This isn't a thread about gender equality... but I'll address your post anyway.

The Koran teaches that males and females who believe and do good deeds will enter Heaven. So they are equal in the eyes of God.

But between a man and a woman... are they really equal in terms of roles and strengths?
Why is that since the dawn of history, the men have always been the hunter-gatherers and the women were to take care of the house and raise the children?

Nearly fell off my chair laughing after reading this post. Pray tell how you know that men have always been the hunter-gatherers and that the women were to take of the house and raise the children 'since the dawn of history'?

You must surely be aware that the fact that the human female lives so long after procreation ceases to be possible has been a puzzle for a long time - and that one of the theories forwarded to explain this anomaly is that it was the older women (and likely men too) who looked after the children while the younger women assisted the men with the hunting and food collection.

I know many men who are much better home makers than I will ever be - and I know that I am physically stronger and more able than many men. You have to be careful when you generalise.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by jiggerj

 

A true god would consider women 100% equal to men.

This isn't a thread about gender equality... but I'll address your post anyway.

What? Misogyny is about hating women and keeping them subdued, which all of the major religions preach.

But between a man and a woman... are they really equal in terms of roles and strengths?
Why is that since the dawn of history, the men have always been the hunter-gatherers and the women were to take care of the house and raise the children?

This takes in the extremely shallow and utterly false concept of man being better because he's stronger. In terms of equality, if men considered women equal then men wouldn't abuse them. I'm not so sure that women were treated badly before religion came along. I have never heard of chimp males abusing females.

Originally posted by Sk0rpi0n/i]
The Koran teaches that males and females who believe and do good deeds will enter Heaven. So they are equal in the eyes of God.

The Islamic afterlife teaches that men who get to heaven will have an unending sex orgy full of women 'servicing' him for all eternity. The Women who get to heaven will be the ones 'lucky' enough to have to be the ones to service the men. That's hardly 'equal'.