Women are equal to men/men are equal to women. People can be good.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Do you have a source for this info? It would be interesting to see if the women who are missing work are doing so because they're caring for a sick child. I know when my son gets sick, I'm the one who takes off of work to take him to the doctor.

As for working longer hours, I respectfully disagree. I think your making a gross generalization here. I believe hours worked has more to do with the type of job than with the gender of the employee.

I'm pretty sure every single stats report I've read on the matter has in fact showed that men get paid more, and do more overtime. I don't remember anything about missing work though. These are just mainly statistics published in newspapers etc.

Here is a quote from the ABS (data from January 2012):

On average, male employees work more hours and overtime hours per week than do female employees.

abs.gov.au

Some quick sites I found:
www.ons.gov.uk...
www.cbs.nl...

Any male can be equal to any female. But generally, bilogically, men and women are very different. Thats not a bad thing, but thats just the way nature is. Men are generally better at sports etc. Whereas women can have children, and are perhaps more suited to some things.

Men and women also don't currently have equal rights. Men are better off in some things, and women are better off in some things. Men or women aren't necessarily worse off though, overall it makes a balance.

And to the poster who said that women don't need men to survive, think about it.

And with statistics, having previously participated (or observed, can't remember), in a discussion titled something like "men are better than women", here on ATS, I think the overall conclusion on intelligence was that women are more consistent, whereas men are scattered all over the place. Overall in statistics it seems that men perform better, but there are also many under performing men, whereas women seem to be around the middle, with less outliers. The thread was about evolution, and the Y-chromosome (which is only present in males).

Originally posted by SilentKoala
Except they aren't equal. One is taller, more rational, and has a penis. One is shorter, weaker, more emotional, and has a vagina. Tell me again how they are equal?

Clearly you're not one of these tall, rational, strong ones.
Perhaps it has something to do with your penis.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

The empowerment of the woman was a detriment to the human cause.

That's right. Women are incapable of rational thought, shouldn't be allowed to vote, ought to be forced to stay at home fixing meals for the man of the house.

When will people realize that women are INDIVIDUALS, same as men?

Smylee...

Man or woman, some people are just plain retarded.

Don't humor them by trying to have an actual debate with them.

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by SilentKoala
Except they aren't equal. One is taller, more rational, and has a penis. One is shorter, weaker, more emotional, and has a vagina. Tell me again how they are equal?

Clearly you're not one of these tall, rational, strong ones.
Perhaps it has something to do with your penis.

Although you may feel like making fun of him/her, he/she has a point. If you don't understand, just read up on the anatomy, and the variation between the sexes. Additionally read up on psychology. Both have their advantages/disadvantages, but men and women are, infact, different.

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by Knives4eyes

 

From that day on I looked at the female gender in an entirely different way. It was then that I realized that women are just a capable of anything as men And More. eg. . .. It would Kill a man if he had to give birth.

I am sure if men had the right equipment they would do just fine.

Originally posted by salainen

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by SilentKoala
Except they aren't equal. One is taller, more rational, and has a penis. One is shorter, weaker, more emotional, and has a vagina. Tell me again how they are equal?

Clearly you're not one of these tall, rational, strong ones.
Perhaps it has something to do with your penis.

Although you may feel like making fun of him/her, he/she has a point. If you don't understand, just read up on the anatomy, and the variation between the sexes. Additionally read up on psychology. Both have their advantages/disadvantages, but men and women are, infact, different.

Bull#.

Originally posted by Knives4eyes

You ever see a woman whip a man's ass?

I bet her lawyer was a man though.

Originally posted by HairlessApe
Bull#.

Do you honestly want me to look that up for you. I have done anatomy at uni, and yes, there are differences between the sexes. You can get out any anatomy book and have a look, I'm being serious, if its a proper anatomy text book it will list out differences between the sexes.

Now I know you are aware that women give birth, where men do not. This requires some major differences in anatomy, and these cause trade offs in other functions. For example, the sub-pubic angle of the female pelvis has to be a lot winder in order to allow a baby to pass through. The reason men have a lot smaller angle, is because its better suited for other tasks such as running.

Honestly, why do you think that men's and women's sport is different? Its because men perform better, and if all sport was mixed-sex, women would have a huge disadvantage.

Men and women also do not think exactly alike. Men and women also have different amounts of different hormones, and develop at different times. Not to mention menstruation.

Now I understand that you may have been joking when you said that my statement that the anatomy of a male is different to that of a female was bs, but I just wanted to make clear what I meant by it. There are major differences between the sexes, and that means men and women are not the same. They also should not be treated exactly equally, because that would disadvantage women in certain situations, and men in others. Putting women into mens sport, for example, would significantly disadvantage women. Putting urinals into womens toilets would just be ridiculous.

Originally posted by liejunkie01
To a point.

I let a woman do a mans job. She was a real feminists. She had this complex where a woman is equal to a man.

I had enough of her bs and put her back with the guys throwing these heavy maibags on a conveyor belt. It was her last day because she was too proud to tell me she injured herself.

Dig this and read carefully.

We had some conditions that changed at work. A woman worked in a certain area but becasue of the cahnge of conditions, which were very uncomfortable now do to the changes, this lady requested that we switch places as the new conditions were better suited for myself a man.

The super came by, another woman, and asked me to switch. I said that this woman makes as much as I do.....and that its a whole new day for women and they should embrace the grind. The super told me......read carefully....that although she, the super, could do anything that a man can do mentaly and better than most men....that she still beleived there were some things that a man should do and then equated the job switch to holding the door open for a woman....a direct appeal to the male chauvinist/chivalristic but only to a degree of ape like functions.....which is really what feminism seeks in men.....Old school when its cool, but keep the freek on a leash. Feminism is sexism. Female chauvinstic pigs.

Men and women are equal in value, and different in their characteristics.

I don't get into the whole idea of stating they are the same, and do everything just as well as the other. I think they have inherent differences and strengths, even beyond their genitalia and that these differences are complimentary in the world.

But I don't give a rats butt if people choose to see it differently- if they see the value in only one side they will miss out on being able to know and benefit from the other side, both outside and in themselves.
Put down either you lose half of your own power. Too bad for you.

Originally posted by salainen

Originally posted by HairlessApe
Bull#.

Do you honestly want me to look that up for you. I have done anatomy at uni, and yes, there are differences between the sexes. You can get out any anatomy book and have a look, I'm being serious, if its a proper anatomy text book it will list out differences between the sexes.

Now I know you are aware that women give birth, where men do not. This requires some major differences in anatomy, and these cause trade offs in other functions. For example, the sub-pubic angle of the female pelvis has to be a lot winder in order to allow a baby to pass through. The reason men have a lot smaller angle, is because its better suited for other tasks such as running.

Honestly, why do you think that men's and women's sport is different? Its because men perform better, and if all sport was mixed-sex, women would have a huge disadvantage.

Men and women also do not think exactly alike. Men and women also have different amounts of different hormones, and develop at different times. Not to mention menstruation.

Now I understand that you may have been joking when you said that my statement that the anatomy of a male is different to that of a female was bs, but I just wanted to make clear what I meant by it. There are major differences between the sexes, and that means men and women are not the same. They also should not be treated exactly equally, because that would disadvantage women in certain situations, and men in others. Putting women into mens sport, for example, would significantly disadvantage women. Putting urinals into womens toilets would just be ridiculous.

Wow you took basic psych at a Uni? Like everyone who goes to one because it's required? Astounding.

Your arguments towards the differences between genders are based in semantics, yet you don't comprehend the term "differences" correctly in the context of the discussion.

The use of semantics without the proper use of context leads to incoherence. We're already well past the threshold of incoherence.

Originally posted by HairlessApe
Wow you took basic psych at a Uni? Like everyone who goes to one because it's required? Astounding.

Your arguments towards the difference between genders are based in semantics, yet you don't comprehend the term "differences" correctly in the context of the discussion.

Anatomy. Never did psychology. The arguments are based on semantics, but extend to real differences.

I completely agree that men and women should both be allowed to vote, and should both be given an equal opportunity to choose between abortion or life of a child.

Whats your opinion on sport? Should men and women both compete in the same league? If not, then clearly men and women are not equal.

So... Have you ever studied anatomy? I assume you did psychology. So you do understand men and women are different, but you feel that they are same.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by liejunkie01
To a point.

I let a woman do a mans job. She was a real feminists. She had this complex where a woman is equal to a man.

I had enough of her bs and put her back with the guys throwing these heavy maibags on a conveyor belt. It was her last day because she was too proud to tell me she injured herself.

Dig this and read carefully.

We had some conditions that changed at work. A woman worked in a certain area but becasue of the cahnge of conditions, which were very uncomfortable now do to the changes, this lady requested that we switch places as the new conditions were better suited for myself a man.

The super came by, another woman, and asked me to switch. I said that this woman makes as much as I do.....and that its a whole new day for women and they should embrace the grind. The super told me......read carefully....that although she, the super, could do anything that a man can do mentaly and better than most men....that she still beleived there were some things that a man should do and then equated the job switch to holding the door open for a woman....a direct appeal to the male chauvinist/chivalristic but only to a degree of ape like functions.....which is really what feminism seeks in men.....Old school when its cool, but keep the freek on a leash. Feminism is sexism. Female chauvinstic pigs.

The term "feminist" has had it's definition changed drastically over the course of the last century. The most recent definition does indeed accuse the post-modern feminist of feeling entitled to more than a man does. Genders should be treated equally, and individual's capability to excel beyond or fall behind their peers should determine where they fall into society. Gender roles inhibit this, regardless of which gender plays which role.

So I agree with you 100%

Originally posted by salainen

Originally posted by HairlessApe
Wow you took basic psych at a Uni? Like everyone who goes to one because it's required? Astounding.

Your arguments towards the difference between genders are based in semantics, yet you don't comprehend the term "differences" correctly in the context of the discussion.

Anatomy. Never did psychology. The arguments are based on semantics, but extend to real differences.

I completely agree that men and women should both be allowed to vote, and should both be given an equal opportunity to choose between abortion or life of a child.

Whats your opinion on sport? Should men and women both compete in the same league? If not, then clearly men and women are not equal.

So... Have you ever studied anatomy? I assume you did psychology. So you do understand men and women are different, but you feel that they are same.

edit on 31-3-2013 by salainen because: (no reason given)

A woman can do any job that a man can do.

I did not claim that any woman can to the same job as any man, but not any man can do what is typically considered a "man's job," if you will. In fact, most men can't.

I think some women would do fine in a male league, but playing a sport is not a real job, it does not benefit society, and quite frankly should not even be considered. You also don't pit featherweights against heavyweights in competative fighting or substitute a lineman with a quarterback.

You have no proof that females could not excel in male sport leagues, nor do you have females training to compete in a male's league. While a textbook may or may not tell you that a male league is more competative because males are naturally more competative, these textbooks are likely dismissing that fact that our culture bred the competition, not the gender.

Originally posted by HairlessApe
The term "feminist" has had it's definition changed drastically over the course of the last century. The most recent definition does indeed accuse the post-modern feminist of feeling entitled to more than a man does. Genders should be treated equally, and individual's capability to excel beyond or fall behind their peers should determine where they fall into society. Gender roles inhibit this, regardless of which gender plays which role.

Thats what I think as well. And I find feminism quite annoying these days, as in my opinion they are going over the top. And the most ridiculous thing is breast-cancer foundations. At least here in Australia they get huge support. I mean huge! And its all about the women, you hardly hear about the men suffering from breast cancer, and you hardly hear about protate cancer, even though I'm pretty sure that kills more men than breast-cancer kills women and men.

But on the gender roles, women may be suited better for certain things, and men for other things. Might seem sexist to say this in this era, but men cannot breast feed. Women were clearly made, or evolved into, taking care of young children. Maybe we want to change that. I don't know.

Originally posted by salainen

Originally posted by HairlessApe
The term "feminist" has had it's definition changed drastically over the course of the last century. The most recent definition does indeed accuse the post-modern feminist of feeling entitled to more than a man does. Genders should be treated equally, and individual's capability to excel beyond or fall behind their peers should determine where they fall into society. Gender roles inhibit this, regardless of which gender plays which role.

Thats what I think as well. And I find feminism quite annoying these days, as in my opinion they are going over the top. And the most ridiculous thing is breast-cancer foundations. At least here in Australia they get huge support. I mean huge! And its all about the women, you hardly hear about the men suffering from breast cancer, and you hardly hear about protate cancer, even though I'm pretty sure that kills more men than breast-cancer kills women and men.

But on the gender roles, women may be suited better for certain things, and men for other things. Might seem sexist to say this in this era, but men cannot breast feed. Women were clearly made, or evolved into, taking care of young children. Maybe we want to change that. I don't know.

A man can't breastfeed, but some men are still better parents than some women.

Originally posted by HairlessApe
A woman can do any job that a man can do.

I did not claim that any woman can to the same job as any man, but not any man can do what is typically considered a "man's job," if you will. In fact, most men can't.

I think some women would do fine in a male league, but playing a sport is not a real job, it does not benefit society, and quite frankly should not even be considered.

You have no proof that females could not excel in male sport leagues, nor do you have females training to compete in a male's league. While a textbook may or may not tell you that a male league is more competative because males are naturally more competative, these textbooks are likely dismissing that fact that our culture bred the competition, not the gender.

But, were talking about the entire sex here. Not about individuals. As individuals everyone is equal, but if you break it up into sex its different. Overall there are differences.

Sport is a perfect example. Would you want it to be mixed? In all honesty, if we began now, do you think that women could succeed the same as men? Because anatomically I don't think its possible. You might think that sport is completely useless, but the factors extend into other fields.

The textbooks I was talking about were just pure anatomy, not even taking physiology into account. The male body is different to that of a female. This does not dismiss that culture is bred on competition (whatever that means), since its only about anatomy.

As individuals, yes, men and women can do the same tasks. There shouldn't be anything to favour men over women in a general workplace. What I'm pointing out that men and women are different, and therefore not equal.

Originally posted by salainen

Originally posted by HairlessApe
A woman can do any job that a man can do.

I did not claim that any woman can to the same job as any man, but not any man can do what is typically considered a "man's job," if you will. In fact, most men can't.

I think some women would do fine in a male league, but playing a sport is not a real job, it does not benefit society, and quite frankly should not even be considered.

You have no proof that females could not excel in male sport leagues, nor do you have females training to compete in a male's league. While a textbook may or may not tell you that a male league is more competative because males are naturally more competative, these textbooks are likely dismissing that fact that our culture bred the competition, not the gender.

But, were talking about the entire sex here. Not about individuals. As individuals everyone is equal, but if you break it up into sex its different. Overall there are differences.

Sport is a perfect example. Would you want it to be mixed? In all honesty, if we began now, do you think that women could succeed the same as men? Because anatomically I don't think its possible. You might think that sport is completely useless, but the factors extend into other fields.

The textbooks I was talking about were just pure anatomy, not even taking physiology into account. The male body is different to that of a female. This does not dismiss that culture is bred on competition (whatever that means), since its only about anatomy.

As individuals, yes, men and women can do the same tasks. There shouldn't be anything to favour men over women in a general workplace. What I'm pointing out that men and women are different, and therefore not equal.

A black man and a white man have some visible differences. Even some small differences in biology. But they are still equal - and not just metaphorically.

The "differences" you are speaking of are after-thoughts. We're talking about the "big picture" here, but you're going on about little menial differences that should not be considered when talking about equality.

Furthermore, if the "differences" only apply to some individuals, then why should we consider them when discussing the whole?

Originally posted by HairlessApe
A man can't breastfeed, but some men are still better parents than some women.

Yes, some are, but as a sex, women may be generally more suited for the task. Everyone should be given the same rights, regardless of sex, but overall we will probably find that women will tend to do more of one kind of stuff, whereas men do another kind of stuff.