Dutch Filmmaker Theo Van Gogh Murdered

In the relatively peaceful Netherlands, Theo Van Gogh, Great Grandson of the brother of the famous painter Vincent Van Gogh was shot and stabbed to death by a lone assailant. This is thought to be a response to Van Gogh's documentary on the mistreatment of Islamic women titled “Submission". The assailant was described as an "Arab appearing, or disguised as Arab" male, who was later captured after being wounded in a shootout with police. Details will be forthcoming as to the true nature of the attack.



Whether this is a political assassination, or an act of terrorism, Islamic fundamentalism seems to pursue the most extreme form of dissent to the detractors of their cultural and religious beliefs. Van Gogh was known for being outspoken and was a "champion of free speech", a dangerous cause to sponsor in light of Islamic fundamentalist’s response to basic freedoms.

Related News Links:
www.bloomberg.com
www.time.com
www.turkishpress.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
ISLAM: An intolerant, inconsistent fallacy

[edit on 11-2-2004 by Zion Mainframe]

Theo van Gogh, the great grand nephew of Vincent van Gogh was Murdered by a lone assailant in the Netherlands today. His documentary film "Submission", an expose of the mistreatment of women under Islam is believed to be the motive.

www.time.com...

You were right Grady.

[edit on 3/11/2004 by Mirthful Me]

This is terrible.
I am dutch and I allready see the first angry racist messages appear on forums. Can we no longer say what we think without fearing for our lives?

This will change something permanently in the netherlands, and the attitude towards Islamic people over here will be harsher than ever from now on.

No mate, I am dutch to, and I can tell you that this is not as worse as you are trying to tell, this might even open the discussion more about how we treat other people with an other religion, or maybe people finaly will say what they really think about the islam and other religions, This might just be the wake-up call for the Dutch

but still its a bad thing that happend

Good guys always gets assasinated

What a shame for humanity

Maybe this is the Big surprise before the election. Who knows?

It could be possible that the film he was creating undermines Islam, assassinated by some insurgentes and grounds to start another war (or at least continue the current one?)

Im streching it here guys, but wheres the surprise?

Apparently he was murdered by a Maroccan.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Apparently he was murdered by a Maroccan.

foxnews.com
A suspect, a 26-year-old man with dual Dutch-Moroccan nationality, was arrested after a shootout with officers that left him wounded, police said.

www.foxnews.com...

The possibility exists that this was politically, not religiously motivated. I was unaware of the growing division in Dutch society regarding immigration. Theo Van Gogh was quite outspoken towards both Jews and Muslims, but his rhetoric was polarizing the majority of native Dutch citizens.

Yep, there is a division between native dutch people and foreigners. In fact, it was always there. I don't want to generalize, but a lot of Dutch people hate forgeigners. And people like this Theo van Gogh with his film give the foreigners in the country an even more difficult life than they already have. Lots of people have to face racism and discrimination every single day on the job, in the bus, at nightclubs etc... I myself have faced discrimination in Holland.

Not to say that all foreigners in Holland are good. There is also reverse racism. Especially from the side of the Maroccans. But there are good people in between, but they suffer because of the rotten apples. And the Dutch media, which is one of the most racist media I have ever known, will never portray foreigners in a way that does not apply to the (half/half) common consensus that foreigners are inferior to caucasian Dutch people.

My cousin plays for the Dutch national football team. He played in various world cups and European cups with them. He's the only person ever to have won the champions league three times with three different teams. He's popular in countries such as Spain and Italy. Yet the Dutch media very seldom acknowledge him or try to discredit him mainly because he's black and was born Surinamese.

And it's probably because of the movie he made with Hirsi Ali, which again put islamic people in a negative light. (Perhaps it was just, because it was going about forced marriages...perhaps not). But I wouldn't watch that movie anyway because of Hirsi Ali. That woman was a refugee, now she's in the Dutch parliament. And she made some comments about my country recently that are just plain IGNORANT. She doesn't even know that Aruba isn't part of the Netherlands Antilles anymore. Wake up Lady!!! We haven't been in the N.A. since 1986!!! Then she has the nerve to discuss the problems and denigrate Aruba and also the N.A.??? She doesn't even the kingdom she lives in, and she wants to discuss it??? That lady has issues, really.

Any rant off....

Hirschi Ali is a great woman.
If you don't understand her that's your problem really.
One of the few ex Islamic people who dares to tell the truth about what a vile and retarded religion the Islam really is.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Yep, there is a division between native dutch people and foreigners. In fact, it was always there. I don't want to generalize, but a lot of Dutch people hate forgeigners. And people like this Theo van Gogh with his film give the foreigners in the country an even more difficult life than they already have. Lots of people have to face racism and discrimination every single day on the job, in the bus, at nightclubs etc... I myself have faced discrimination in Holland.

Although the type of subject matter and material is different, would Theo Van Gogh be considered a Dutch Michael Moore? The agenda driven, manipulative play on peoples worst fear type? If so, does that make us (the U.S.) more civilized by allowing him to live a threat free life? At worst, I just call him a fat %&*#@%*$#*!, but I would not ever consider harming him (not even a custard pie assault ). Score one for the U.S?

Complete ATSNN News Story regarding the Theo Van Gogh murder/assassination here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hirsi Ali might have her good sides. But she does not know anything about the situations in the American part of the Dutch Kingdom and dares open her mouth about them (=us). Let her come to Aruba and to the N.A. and see for herself what the real situations and issues are, before she discusses them.

She has to deny ignorance.

Bandit.

You're cousin Is Clarence Seedorf?

Amazing! Great player, especially in his day.

(if you were wanting to hide that name, please feel free to delete it)

Yep that's my couz.. My whole family is proud of him.

About Hirsi Ali: Here was a discussion about here a few months ago. It's in Dutch.

www.arubastation.com...

Here's the article which showed that she knows nothing about Aruba and about the Netherlands Antilles, but still dares open her mouth and make an ass out of herself. (also in Dutch)

www.amigoe.com...

[edit on 2-11-2004 by TheBandit795]

I have been speaking to my Dutch friends about this. Some fear a sudden change in stance with the muslim community in the Netherlands leading to violence. Apparently there are suburbs in Amsterdam which are 60% or so foreign.

I was listening to Radio Netherlands over here (run through a local all news station) where some football team/players were going to dye their hair blonde because they believed that favourtism was given to Dutch players, I didnt quite hear the report properly and it seemed so bizarre. Also it was reported that the government was attempting to force through legislation that required all foreign residents to learn the language and culture of the Netherlands (I don't have any problem with that whatsoever).

Controversial Dutch filmmaker slain

Dutch police said they later arrested about 20 people in The Hague for handing out tracts inciting hatred of Muslims, following Van Gogh's murder.

The Dutch news agency ANP said the demonstrators were shouting slogans like "Muslims: parasites" and "Our own people come first".

Thousands of people gathered in central Amsterdam to pay homage to the film maker Photo: AFP

[edit on 2-11-2004 by cargo]

All they need is a next Pim Fortuyn and you have another nazi state...

Another Dutch citizen,

This is a terrible blow against our values of freedom. An inexcusable deed of evil madness that should be classified as a terrorist attack aimed at the Dutch democracy. The suspect murderer was a known person to the Dutch Intelligence Agency (AIVD) having ties to Islamic extremist groups.

I liked the man, even though often disagreed on his views. He was more than a movie maker, he was an opinion maker. A man of the people, trying to make a difference for the good his way.

However one has to ask if this man didn't go to far picking on Islam and thus sadly provoking his own assassination. My following criticism is not to justify his death, nothing justifies murder. I say this with the strong conviction one should be free to share their thoughts and opinions without fear of repercussion, but keeping in regard a certain sensibility to the people and/or subject at hand. If one is trying to provoke a discussion with the people involved, this is of the utmost importance to succeed.

Personally, I think the movie mentioned above was going to far. Depicting an Islamic woman, half undressed, with Koran texts "tattooed" on her back, is a major insult to the majority of Islamic believers, not just the extremists (tattoos are forbidden by Islam). When summarised it generalized Islam as a wrong cruel religion.

Sadly this stance didn't prelude a discussion between Muslims and non-Muslims, it divided them further. Resulting mostly in a discussion among like minded people, instead of the full spectrum of society.

Free speech is something to cherish, not something people should take to the extremes.


Theo van Gogh, RIP

Hoaks

Not to pick nits, but Theo van Gogh was the great-great-nephew of the painter Vincent van Gogh.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
All they need is a next Pim Fortuyn and you have another nazi state...

Keep your ignorance to yourself please.
Such comments really reveal how much you know about Pim Fortuyn and what he stood for.

One of the few ex Islamic people who dares to tell the truth about what a vile and retarded religion the Islam really is.

Thats a pretty ignorant statement as well. People who react in extreme irrational acts are religious fanatics. They are not only tied to Islam, but to most religions including Christianity (I am Christian). To make a statement that the entire religion of Islam is vile and retarded is not accurate.

Now, with that said, some of the things the Islamic Fanatics do are vile and retarded.