Armed Mexican Civillians Arrest Corrupt Police; Depose City's Corrupt Government

Originally posted by walliswallis

Originally posted by HawkeyeNation
Mexico and US are a little different. I mean drug lords run that country.

Let's try to keep crypto-racism out of this thread. Thanks.

Mexico isn't a race, it's a nation. What a bizzare attempt to bait people into a race argument. Keep your inferences to yourself. Thanks.

Originally posted by SonsOfTheMeek

Originally posted by walliswallis

Originally posted by HawkeyeNation
Mexico and US are a little different. I mean drug lords run that country.

Let's try to keep crypto-racism out of this thread. Thanks.

Mexico isn't a race, it's a nation. What a bizzare attempt to bait people into a race argument. Keep your inferences to yourself. Thanks.

"what works in [Nation A] won't work in [Nation B], because [Nation A] is [Significantly Inferior in This Way]"

is racist when [Nation A] is perceived to be ethnically homogenous

Keep your inferences to yourself. Thanks.

Please do not issue commands to fellow posters. It is rude, aggressive and not conducive to a civil and mature discussion which is what I was hoping to generate when I started this thread. If you would like to see something happen, please make the choice to phrase it as a polite request. Thank you.

they should do chicago like that

reply to post by AshleyD


The reason I connected the statements to Mexico to that of the USA by comparison has more to do with your very first words in your original post.

"Good for them!"

While I agree, yes it is good for them, when will it be "good for us"? We (all of us) are usually very quick to applaud the efforts of others who stand up for their rights, while doing nothing for ourselves or to protect our rights.

reply to post by MrWendal


Well, personally I'd love for something like that to happen here where we stand up for our rights and perform citizens arrests on the corrupt officials.

However, I did have a large 'BUT' in my original comment.

And that would be, I don't want them shooting at my family or myself just like these vigilantes shot up innocent people in a car. I don't care who is shooting at me- a corrupt government or a group of people trying to oppose that corrupt government.

Seems fair. Like I said, you don't want to become the monster you are trying to fight. As long as these guys avoid that, they have my support.

reply to post by AshleyD


Well the thing is, it is a double edge sword. Place your self in the shoes of those citizens who are standing up to the corruption.

They don't know that the car they attempted to stop was tourist. All they knew was that it ran from them when they attempted to stop it. They had no idea who was in the car, someone they were seeking to arrest or a a group or people passing through.

I would suggest that in order to truly make an impact and catch those you seek in order to end the corruption, you HAVE TO become the monster you hate. If not, they slip through the cracks and they get away,

reply to post by MrWendal

They don't know that the car they attempted to stop was tourist. All they knew was that it ran from them when they attempted to stop it. They had no idea who was in the car, someone they were seeking to arrest or a a group or people passing through.

So then they probably shouldn't have shot it up.

Also, as much as I commend them for what they're doing, caution is necessary as well. They really have no official authority at this point and no citizen should be forced to cower under their presence just as much as a corrupt police force.

The car full of tourists really had no requirement to stop for them. Honestly, would YOU have stopped? I highly doubt it if you were to answer honestly. Let's say you're driving home on your way from work in an area you KNOW if rife with crime, corruption, etc. Would you stop for a group of ten men with guns and bandannas?

It's great they want to overthrow the bad guys but you cannot go around shooting up unknown people. That's my main bone to pick.

Sorry but I get the impression you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

Good for the people of Mexico finally standing up for themselves. How long this will last is what worries me because the cartel govt criminals will strick back and by the most gruesome, deadliest means necessary. May God be with them all!

The people of Libya find themselves in similar situations overrunning terrorists military camps and corrupt politicians.

reply to post by AshleyD


Italy's carabinieri police employ the same tactic as far as firing on a car that doesn't stop when they tell it too. The carabinieri police carry what is known as a "lollipop", one side red the other green. If you see red you better stop or they'll open fire. What sucks for the car is that these police also carry machine guns.







This one's cute,




Suffice to say, brakes slam when people see red.

reply to post by HawkeyeNation


You just described the US exactly!

Where have you been? Don't you know why we are in Afghanistan? just Google US Troops protect poppy fields!

CIA= Drug Lords.

www.thenewamerican.com...

And haven't you heard about how many trigger happy police/soldiers we have?

They Kill at Will Too!

reply to post by AshleyD

So then they probably shouldn't have shot it up.

Again, to play devil's advocate, the car ran from them. Shooting at a car that refuses to stop is not a very uncommon tactic of Police all around the world, as Swills has pointed out. It has even happened here in the USA, although it will accompany a story that the car was being used as a weapon and Police were forced to use lethal force to protect themselves.

Also, as much as I commend them for what they're doing, caution is necessary as well. They really have no official authority at this point and no citizen should be forced to cower under their presence just as much as a corrupt police force.

In any case of revolution, there is always a power vacuum left behind that has to be filled. With no Police force in place, it is the people who are forced to enforce the law of the land. If they do not do it, any other entity could come fill that void, be it drug lords, gangs, or any idiot willing to step up to the microphone.

The car full of tourists really had no requirement to stop for them. Honestly, would YOU have stopped? I highly doubt it if you were to answer honestly.

You would be 100% correct, I would not have stopped. I also would not have been shocked to be shot at for not stopping as well.

Let's say you're driving home on your way from work in an area you KNOW if rife with crime, corruption, etc. Would you stop for a group of ten men with guns and bandannas?

Guns and bandannas, of course not. That being said, I do not know the case you are referring to and I have no idea how those men who attempted that stop were dressed at the time.

It's great they want to overthrow the bad guys but you cannot go around shooting up unknown people. That's my main bone to pick.

And it is a fair point to make, but there is always two sides to every story. The truth is however, that with revolution and great change the transition is not going to go smoothly with no impact on the general population. If it were that easy, every Nation on earth would probably be in such a state right now. So things like you are describing are going to happen. Those in power do not simply give up the power they hold. It must be taken.

Sorry but I get the impression you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

Sorry but no argument here at all. Simply offering another perspective for the sake of discussion.

Great points. If you open a roadblock and aren't willing to shoot cars that run the roadblock there's no point in having it in the first place ... it's then just optional. Criminals don't volunteer for optional car checks.

reply to post by AshleyD

One car of tourists refused to stop so the vigilantes fired on them, wounding at least one.

Well, they did refuse to stop. For all the guards knew that car was filled with the opposition. They did what they were told to do. Stop and search all vehicles.

Once the balloon goes up and shooting starts there is no safe place. The last stupid thing you want to do at a time like that is panic and try to run an armed checkpoint.

Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by AshleyD

 

The reason I connected the statements to Mexico to that of the USA by comparison has more to do with your very first words in your original post.

"Good for them!"

While I agree, yes it is good for them, when will it be "good for us"? We (all of us) are usually very quick to applaud the efforts of others who stand up for their rights, while doing nothing for ourselves or to protect our rights.

Well, as has been stated before, the drug cartels are openly killing people who stand in their way. The corruption is so out in the open and brutal, people were forced to resort to violence. Our system is flawed but not tyrannical yet. We can still work through political channels to enact reform and people are trying to do that. They need our support and more attention and money, but they are trying every reform you can think of.

We could all certainly do more, but being informed and informing others through the internet and life in general is helpful. Caring about these things at all is unfortunately not common enough, but the meeting place of the internet allows the engaged to finally find each other.

I think the power of the internet also enable us to finally think of all of us as all of us. This is "good for us" in the US now that our fellow humans are taking their country back from corrupt authorities. Their stability adds to ours. And they probably use the internet to enable them to effectively fight the drug cartels. Probably getting help from all over the world in tactics, weapons training, supplies, communications, video, etc. Just like in Egypt and Libya where the much derided American website/app Twitter helped topple dictators.

It saddens me that race has taken over this thread, because we have to stop thinking about race in these halls. It's a tool used to tear us apart out there but it shouldn't in here. We all know we're one race here, racists are banned. We're already working together. We're talking to each other from all over the world right now. Remember to step back and wonder at that from time to time.

We are all us.

reply to post by walliswallis


I'm an Irish American. Should I be offended if he said Irish go home? I hope you say yes, Because I have been looking for an excuse to be offended lately. To much coffee I think.

You ain't no more "Hispanic" than I am Irish. We're both Americans!

I am so sick of people with permanent suntans deviding this country. You kind of sound like a Democrat.

Originally posted by AshleyD
On one hand, GOOD FOR THEM! If the government fails the people, the people should have the right to rectify things. Mexico is a cesspool of corruption where the citizens are terrified and abused.

On the other hand, it looks like the vigilantes are a bit of a loose cannon. For instance, the article lists one example where they created a checkpoint. One car of tourists refused to stop so the vigilantes fired on them, wounding at least one.

I cannot approve of that. If I was driving along with my family and came across a group of men with guns flagging us down, I'd try to keep driving, too.

If they can get that type of stuff under check then I could approve. You just can't become what you hate.

Hopefully they can become the heroes the country desperately needs.

If you came to a police checkpoint and just continued driving, i think there would be a fair chance of them opening fire as well?

I would say that was a pretty stupid thing to do anyway, trying to just drive through a bunch of armed men having a checkpoint, i mean.

Glad no one was seriously hurt, and even the shooter was probably not representing the group as a whole, but rather a trigger happy loose cannon.

In any case they seem to be doing more good than bad.

These small acts of bravery are nice but wont change a thing. If the mexican government was smart they would legalize cocain (since the US obviously doesnt want to) and start producing it in huge quantaties themselves.

This makes it nothing worth fighting over and restoring peace and attract huge amounts of tourists just like we do in the netherlands (amsterdam).

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

Yes. We shouldnt be over there IMO but that is another thread.

So then you disapprove of Police DUI checkpoints and fugitive checkpoints?

Originally posted by murphy22
reply to post by walliswallis

 

I'm an Irish American. Should I be offended if he said Irish go home?

I can't tell you if you should or should not be offended. I can only tell if you something is a racist statement or not. Depending on the context, yes this would probably be racist.

reply to post by walliswallis


I was going to comment further on this post but was glad to see it already being duscussed, the comments referenced showed no signs of racism, imh...
It has been my personal experience compounded with the experiences of others that individuals who are quick to assume racism usually do so out of thier own personal biases...just sayin...

I have worked in both the construction and food service industries across the country and have had the pleasure to work along side many central/south americans who are NOT U.S. citizens and i can tell two things on thier behalf...
1) most (though not all) would love to return home but cant or wont out fear
2) i would be sad to see them go, they have excellent work ethics (better than most U.S. citizens i have worked with).

With that said, this type of situation brings out many concerns, i wish these folks the best in thier endevours and hope that they are safe from retalliation as well as themselves.

Originally posted by walliswallis

Originally posted by HawkeyeNation
Mexico and US are a little different. I mean drug lords run that country.

Let's try to keep crypto-racism out of this thread. Thanks.

edit on 28-3-2013 by walliswallis because: (no reason given)

Are you being serious...I'm not really sure what your objective is here...there is no hidden racism if that is what you are implying.