So You Have Proven God Does Not Exist, Now What?

I have been struggling with an idea for a while now, so I decided to ultimately make a thread about it, here goes: Suppose that for some reason [disregard what that reason or proof is] but there was complete and absolute truth that all religion, all spiritual beliefs, and anything having to do with God was in our minds. Basically, something that put an end to the atheist vs believer debate. Then what?

I am a Christian and do engage in these kinds of debates from time to time in this forum [which I believe both sides do very well at in ats.] As a Christian my "agenda" for showing people God's existence is that I want them to be saved. But what is the "agenda" of the atheist or nonbeliever? Truth be told I have a good understanding of it, a few examples being they don't want the church controlling other people's ways of life, or forcing their beliefs on others, and to that I agree. I get the whole "hold hands and get along" idea but where I am really confused is as follows; If there was no afterlife, no consequences for what you do, and there is no right and wrong, then what guides you?

Why would I want to restrain myself from murdering someone or raping someone? One could say our laws tell us not to, but does that mean we are all animals being held together by thin laws? What code does a non believer, or non spiritual person live by? If this life is all that matters, is there no difference between being someone like mother Teresa, or Adam Lanza? I am not saying you have to be Christian or follow some religion to be "good", but I am wondering what "good" is to you, and for what purpose if it is not eternal?

Following my threads title; If I was ever convinced that my belief in God was in my head, whats your [atheist's] next step for me? Do I just forget everything I was ever taught and decide it really is all about who makes the most money, and who drives the fastest car, and whoever dies with the most toys wins? I have a hard time understanding a world where this is all there is, and there is no such thing as right or wrong. I refuse to believe that an atheist or non religious person really believes this world is all there is, do you believe in something at all?

I am sorry if I come across as trolling, it is not my intention, but an atheist friend of mine [with who I have some great debates with] challenged me to think of the world non eternal for a day, and it was terrifying to me. On a personal level, I have struggled with depression for many years and have contemplated suicide so many times, but it was my belief that having a God given purpose [albeit small] in this life saved me from killing myself. I feel that if this life was all there really was and nothing else, then why even live at all? I would do what I want to do until someone stopped me then I'd off myself. I am aware that this makes me come across as making atheists out to be horrible people but they are not, I know quite a few of them who are good people in my book. But I don't know how to ask them the same way I am asking you fellow atheist atsers now. Shed some light for me! : )

We would accept that our life is the only life we have and cherish it more, maybe we would finally become closer as a specie and stop fighting.
Maybe just maybe we would become the gods.
BTW Iam anti religion but I do think their is a God but no man can begin to understand such a concept.

reply to post by honested3


Dear honested3,

As a Christian my "agenda" for showing people God's existence is that I want them to be saved.

That is the wrong agenda in my opinion. I do not care not believe I have the ability to determine who should be saved. I believe in free will, we should have an answer for why we believe what we do; but, I believe people should choose for themselves. If we save anyone it is only ourselves, for others we can only answer questions and they decide their answers. It is that free will thing. Peace.

It doesn't matter what you think you can prove either way.

If some make believe invisible man in the sky, like Zeus, was proven not to exist, then, someone would make up another god to take it's place, maybe Odin? or Ra?, Krishna?, Allah?

Whatever the case, no matter what you do or don't prove, the people that haven't evolved beyond the primitive explanations for what makes the universe work will continue to cling to their invisible people in the sky.

The reverse also holds true.
I'm an Atheist.
I don't care how many gods you parade in front of me in person, shooting miracles out of every orifice for all I care, I'll accept them as being supernatural beings, but, given a choice, I'm not getting on my knees for anyone of them, even if they are all "cut like Jesus" with rock star charisma.
I don't care what they claim.
So long as I am, I bow to nothing in worship. I am in control of and responsible for my life and entirely accountable for my actions.

Any being popping up that's so needy creepy clingy they require my adoration or they'll threaten me with some kind of torture isn't even worthy my respect as an equal. Any such emotionally retarded and stunted creep showing up around me gets the slap, and then a double dose of taser gun with some pepper spray while they're down.

Originally posted by honested3
I have been struggling with an idea for a while now, so I decided to ultimately make a thread about it, here goes: Suppose that for some reason [disregard what that reason or proof is] but there was complete and absolute truth that all religion, all spiritual beliefs, and anything having to do with God was in our minds. Basically, something that put an end to the atheist vs believer debate. Then what?

I am a Christian and do engage in these kinds of debates from time to time in this forum [which I believe both sides do very well at in ats.] As a Christian my "agenda" for showing people God's existence is that I want them to be saved. But what is the "agenda" of the atheist or nonbeliever? Truth be told I have a good understanding of it, a few examples being they don't want the church controlling other people's ways of life, or forcing their beliefs on others, and to that I agree. I get the whole "hold hands and get along" idea but where I am really confused is as follows; If there was no afterlife, no consequences for what you do, and there is no right and wrong, then what guides you?

Why would I want to restrain myself from murdering someone or raping someone? One could say our laws tell us not to, but does that mean we are all animals being held together by thin laws? What code does a non believer, or non spiritual person live by? If this life is all that matters, is there no difference between being someone like mother Teresa, or Adam Lanza? I am not saying you have to be Christian or follow some religion to be "good", but I am wondering what "good" is to you, and for what purpose if it is not eternal?

Following my threads title; If I was ever convinced that my belief in God was in my head, whats your [atheist's] next step for me? Do I just forget everything I was ever taught and decide it really is all about who makes the most money, and who drives the fastest car, and whoever dies with the most toys wins? I have a hard time understanding a world where this is all there is, and there is no such thing as right or wrong. I refuse to believe that an atheist or non religious person really believes this world is all there is, do you believe in something at all?

I am sorry if I come across as trolling, it is not my intention, but an atheist friend of mine [with who I have some great debates with] challenged me to think of the world non eternal for a day, and it was terrifying to me. On a personal level, I have struggled with depression for many years and have contemplated suicide so many times, but it was my belief that having a God given purpose [albeit small] in this life saved me from killing myself. I feel that if this life was all there really was and nothing else, then why even live at all? I would do what I want to do until someone stopped me then I'd off myself. I am aware that this makes me come across as making atheists out to be horrible people but they are not, I know quite a few of them who are good people in my book. But I don't know how to ask them the same way I am asking you fellow atheist atsers now. Shed some light for me! : )

What? Are you only constrained by fear of the eternal hell from murdering and raping people? I don't get that.

Anyway: It would leave you with the knowledge that ALL your existance is now, here. There will be no vengance on bad people later on, they have to be punished now. There will be no rewards in the afterlife, as there will be no afterlife.

Result: Live life for the best you can. Don't depend on any "higher being" to protect or punish you or anyone else.

I think, it can't get any better than this: YOU are responsible for your life. YOU have to take FULL RESPONSIBILITY.

And I like it that way. No puny excuses, no wishi-washi-whining. Just you. Or me. Or anyone else. But no-one above!

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by honested3

 

Dear honested3,

As a Christian my "agenda" for showing people God's existence is that I want them to be saved.

That is the wrong agenda in my opinion. I do not care not believe I have the ability to determine who should be saved. I believe in free will, we should have an answer for why we believe what we do; but, I believe people should choose for themselves. If we save anyone it is only ourselves, for others we can only answer questions and they decide their answers. It is that free will thing. Peace.

I'll add on. Why is your God worthy of your following if you believe he harshly judges others based on them not believing him or following him? Do you not find your God to be a horrible being for knowingly allowing others to not be saved by simply not making himself present to mankind in this day and age? Has your God honestly lost touch with how humans thought process has changed over the centuries, and millenniums since Jesus arrived on this Earth?

Now don't get me wrong, I believe Jesus Christ walked this Earth and preached a good message to people. I believe in a God, and like to think my interpretation of MY God is the correct one, even though it likely isn't. But it doesn't take a genius to know the bible has been altered, and its interpretation of God is simply an all-knowing, all-judging, murderer, who brings pain and suffering upon those in which he chooses to. Whether or not you were a sane being and lived life as selfless as possible, you will not gain entrance into his Kingdom unless you willingly gave yourself to Christ.

If it isn't obvious to you that the Bible is full of inserted lies to serve a purpose for other humans and organizations (*cough* Roman Catholic Church), while at the same time being full of very good life lessons and guidelines to being a great person, then you sir should take as long as it will take you to rethink what you've really grown to put your faith in.

You must save yourself before you can save others.

Originally posted by Druscilla

It doesn't matter what you think you can prove either way.

If some make believe invisible man in the sky, like Zeus, was proven not to exist, then, someone would make up another god to take it's place, maybe Odin? or Ra?, Krishna?, Allah?

Whatever the case, no matter what you do or don't prove, the people that haven't evolved beyond the primitive explanations for what makes the universe work will continue to cling to their invisible people in the sky.

The reverse also holds true.
I'm an Atheist.
I don't care how many gods you parade in front of me in person, shooting miracles out of every orifice for all I care, I'll accept them as being supernatural beings, but, given a choice, I'm not getting on my knees for anyone of them, even if they are all "cut like Jesus" with rock star charisma.
I don't care what they claim.
So long as I am, I bow to nothing in worship. I am in control of and responsible for my life and entirely accountable for my actions.

Any being popping up that's so needy creepy clingy they require my adoration or they'll threaten me with some kind of torture isn't even worthy my respect as an equal. Any such emotionally retarded and stunted creep showing up around me gets the slap, and then a double dose of taser gun with some pepper spray while they're down.

I don't know why, but this whole thing just made me sad. I wish you the best.

reply to post by honested3


I agree with Druscilla, I'm not worshiping/bowing to anyone or anything godlike or otherwise.

I wouldn't call myself an atheist, because I think it's possible there could be a god. But I wouldn't call myself agnostic either, because I just don't care if a god exists or not. I think it's irrelevant. Everything is the way it is.
If there is a god?...OK fine. If not?..Just as well, it changes nothing. I don't have any use for gods or religions. I don't need a god, book, or another person to tell me to do the right thing for the right reason.

I think our purpose is to be, that's it, nothing fancy. I don't require justification or purpose for my existence.

Religions don't dictate right and wrong either.
Right and wrong are relative. You could come up with the most depraved atrocity, and I could give you a situation where it would be a reasonable course of action. With that being said, as long as you are not imposing your will on another person against their wishes or otherwise hindering someone else's personal freedom, you're probably not doing anything wrong, and should be allowed to go about your business.

Originally posted by slowisfast

I don't know why, but this whole thing just made me sad. I wish you the best.

I'm entirely happy being godless.


Be happy.
Accept others being happy without gods.

Well, if that's happy...like I said, I wish you the best.

If religion is the only thing keeping you from doing immoral things
than you have a much bigger problem than religion, morality is
as can be clearly seen in the world, is based on societal upbringing
and not religion, morality is a question of freedom when you really
get to the base, true morality is freedom to do what you wish while
not harming others. the key is not harming others. forcing your will
on others is simply immoral, all the worst things that have ever
happened in the world are based on that, religious or not it is the
base of every injustice ever committed.

So without religion you believe that humanity would have no compass of right and wrong and be chaos...Not all laws are based on morality; but honestly the all the ones that are? Are unconstitutional on the basis of separation of church and state.

We have plenty of laws, social norms, etc. not based on religion that keep social order, religion does not need to even be in the picture for order to occur.

So your argument that religion is needed, to maintain order or else there is chaos, is a logical fallacy. It is just another psychological method that can be used; to control human behavior.

Control of the masses based on a moralistic belief structure, is not only separatist, but discriminatory in nature...it leads to many of the ill's encountered in society and plaguing the world...the irony is that morality is pushed from a pulpit, as a cure for the ill's plaguing humanity when it is wholly not the case.

reply to post by honested3
I don't understand why you would think that not believing in God would prevent anyone from having a true moral compass. One need not believe in God to know in their heart and mind what is good or bad, right or wrong. I myself am a Christian, however one of my grown children is an Atheist. Her non-belief in God does not preclude her from having compassion for her fellow man, empathy or love. Not believing in God has not made her a thief, murderer or rapist. She is a loving daughter, a loving mother, a loving partner, a wonderful friend, an outstanding worker, and will gladly give the clothes off of her back to any who need them. Being an Atheist does not make one an inhuman animal- apparently you need to broaden your circle of acquaintances so that you may learn this for yourself.

Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by honested3

 

I don't understand why you would think that not believing in God would prevent anyone from having a true moral compass. One need not believe in God to know in their heart and mind what is good or bad, right or wrong. I myself am a Christian, however one of my grown children is an Atheist. Her non-belief in God does not preclude her from having compassion for her fellow man, empathy or love. Not believing in God has not made her a thief, murderer or rapist. She is a loving daughter, a loving mother, a loving partner, a wonderful friend, an outstanding worker, and will gladly give the clothes off of her back to any who need them. Being an Atheist does not make one an inhuman animal- apparently you need to broaden your circle of acquaintances so that you may learn this for yourself.

Very well stated; tolerance from understanding or even not understanding never hurt anyone.

reply to post by honested3

Proven God Does Not Exist, Now What? What is the "agenda" of the atheist or nonbeliever?

Live a happy normal life? Help others? without judging and being on a high horse?

As a Christian my "agenda" for showing people God's existence is that I want them to be saved

You are an Atheist too, I just believe in 1 god less than you.

If there was no afterlife, no consequences for what you do, and there is no right and wrong, then what guides you? Why would I want to restrain myself from murdering someone or raping someone?

Wait a minute! The only thing that's holding you back from doing all those atrocities is because of fear of god? Then that would mean all Atheist that haven't committed any atrocities are saints?

I feel bad for you if the only thing holding you back is god, you are worse than criminal.

Morality is in our upbringing, our experience. If someone stole from you, how would you feel? would you steal from someone else after experiencing the pain yourself?

does that mean we are all animals being held together by thin laws?

Yes we are animals, only difference is we can control ourselves, well most of us.

What code does a non believer, or non spiritual person live by?

Spirituality does not mean god and it does not only belong to believers. Its a state of mind than a religious ideology.

If this life is all that matters, is there no difference between being someone like mother Teresa, or Adam Lanza?

Helping others or hurting others comes naturally. If you are forced to do either, you are not being your true self. Good thing is most people are more toward charity than atrocity.

whats your [atheist's] next step for me? Do I just forget everything I was ever taught and decide it really is all about who makes the most money, and who drives the fastest car, and whoever dies with the most toys wins?

What does owning anything to do with religion or believing in god?
What were you taught? not to kill? oh wow, i didn't go to church but i knew that since i was 5 yrs old. Why? because pain hurts.

I refuse to believe that an atheist or non religious person really believes this world is all there is, do you believe in something at all?

Thats your choice. You were brought up believing in an ultimate gift(heaven) for living a good life, you are bribed into being good, on the other hand, im genuinely good because im helping without expecting rewards.

There is no proof for afterlife, but one can wonder about it and you don;t need to include god into the equation.

I have struggled with depression for many years and have contemplated suicide so many times, but it was my belief that having a God given purpose [albeit small] in this life saved me from killing myself.

Im glad the god drug(a temporary treatment) is helping you escape reality.

why even live at all?

experience life, immersing in nature, imagination, your children.....

You seem to think that religion has the answers to how we should behave?
That is precisely what is wrong with religions. Basically, because they each have their "answers."

You don't seem to realize that billions and billions of people do not have a religion and live decently with themselves and one another.

Religions, such as those we know today, are indeed falling by the wayside because they are not universal but are varied far too much for their holding groups to get along. True, it is better than in the old days, but not the ideal system.

This will not be news to you, but the coming of the UFOs--perhaps returning of them is a better term because I credit them with giving us the major religions in the old days. Anyway, the coming of the UFOs is bringing us a new perspective on our place in the Universe and our existence as beings among other beings. Before, nothing better than humans was out there except our view of God. Now, God is gone and replaced by physical beings with which we must work with and compete with. It is a whole different place for humanity to exist within and it will not be without its problems. (Could this be one reason for preparations for an eventual collapse?) I think so, because true contact with ETs will be traumatic for humanity as a whole and for some intolerant religions, they will want to tear up the world in defiance and defense of their unchangeable belief structures. It is simple as that.

Thank you everybody for your replies so far, very much appreciated! Let me reiterate a few points though; No I am not a murderer and rapist being held back by God, that was just to make a point, also I never said you cant be "good" without religion or God.

What I do notice a lot of so far is this; "I do not need God, I am responsible for my own life and actions." while at the same time I notice a lot of "God throws people into hell for not choosing Him." So what I am seeing [this is just what I am seeing so if it isn't your intention my apologies] but I am seeing people acknowledge God in their own way, but then say they choose not to believe in Him for reasons including "God is a psychopath who is evil and a murderer etc." Now I don't want to start a theological debate in regards to what I just mentioned, but still I am confused about the whole "good upbringing" mentioned.

I am seeing there is a fundamental belief that people are either born good or they are born evil. I believe they are born evil, and goodness is inherit in us, but it doesn't overwhelm our sinful nature. Suppose we are born good, then what purpose does it serve if only for this life? What purpose is there to being good at all, and if most people are "good" then why do so many people do bad when given the chance?

reply to post by Druscilla


Good points, but you realize everything around you is not through your own power or will, but given to you, such as water and food and a healthy body. You might "purchase" them but ultimately they are not yours. God is not a creeper trying to get you to worship Him, but showing you that your spiritual side needs Him just as your physical side needs these fundamental aspects pointed out. From there your thought would change from Him forcing you to worship, and realizing you want to worship Him.

reply to post by Druscilla


What if God is love and life and light itself and the Reality, including you yourself? What's with all this bravado?

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Back at you what If God isn't any of those things but your own imagination?