Toxic Masculinity

The quote that follows is taken from an article, of the same name as the thread title at:

prospect.org...

In order to keep the quote short enough for modern attention spans I'm only quoting the third & fourth paragraphs. The context of this piece is the Steubenville, Ohio rape case and for those that are unfamiliar with the particular case I advise seeing the opening paragraphs of the article.

This rape is like most in that it was enabled by a deeply entrenched, toxic masculinity. It’s a masculinity that defines itself not only in opposition to female-ness, but as inherently superior, drawing its strength from dominance over women’s “weakness,” and creating men who are happy to deliberately undermine women’s power; it is only in opposition to female vulnerability that it can be strong. Or, as former NFL quarterback and newly-minted feminist Don McPherson recently put it, "We don't raise boys to be men. We raise them not to be women, or gay men." This starts in childhood for many boys, who are taught young that they’ll be punished for doing anything “girly,” from playing with dolls to crying, or even preferring to read over “rough housing” outside.

Toxic masculinity has its fingerprints all over the Steubenville case. The violence done to the victim was born out of the boys’ belief that a) sexually dominating a helpless girl’s body made them powerful and cool, and b) there would be no consequences for them because of their status as star athletes (If you want to see stomach-churning first-hand evidence of this, check out this video of one of their friends gleefully talking about how “raped” and “dead” the victim was). The defense is basing their entire case on it, arguing that this near- (and sometimes totally) unconscious girl’s body was the boys’ to use because “she didn't affirmatively say no." The football community’s response—by which I mean not just the coaches, school, and players, but the entire community of fans—is steeped in the assumptions of toxic masculinity, treating the athletes and the game as more important than some silly girl’s right to both bodily autonomy and justice. Steubenville residents have been quick to rally around the team, suggesting that the victim “put herself in a position to be violated” and refusing to talk to police investigating the assault. The two players who cooperated with police were suspended from the football team, while the players accused of the rape have been allowed to play. The coach even went so far as to threaten a New York Times reporter asking questions about the case. (No surprise there: When it comes to male-dominated sports, toxic masculinity is the rule, not the exception.)

I'm somewhat afraid of posting this here at all because this is a subject I've never seen even mentioned here regardless of the opinion.

I think this has real relevance for all people - not just women. It's very topical because of the UN activity on Violence Against Women and it can't be denied that Violence Against Women doesn't happen all the time.

This makes me thing of movie that I saw, years ago, where a young man passed a lie detector test that he hadn't raped a girl and it clearly showed that, while he clearly forced sex against her will, that he didn't know it was rape. I think this happens all the time.

I hear a man speak on the radio about his group (and I've been looking for it and haven't found the group - any help would be appreciated) that feels this problem is a male & peer group problem. He goes into schools and teachs kids, mostly male to speak up when they see a friend sexually asaulting a women or bullying. He thinks peer pressure - starting with men (cause men don't listen to women - especially in public) is a step away from this violence against women and weaker (bad word) men.

Please read the article and share your helpful comments.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Dear FryeByrd,

I have to say that very few men are rapists. It is not a "masculine" thing, it is the act of despicable people. I consider myself masculine; but, it doesn't mean cruel, it means in control of yourself because I don't consider any man who is out of control to be masculine or manly or even worthwhile. The problem is that we are no longer teaching men to be men. We are not teaching them the proper use of strength, we reward bad behaviors as we reward men for being boys. Consider Charlie Sheen or many rappers (not all), they promote seeing women as objects. We teach boys to want stay children rather than take responsibility.

I do not understand why anyone would defend their actions. At all.

She is going to be damaged forever by this.

This is, of course, assuming that the allegations are true.

reply to post by FyreByrd


I'm from the area, not Steubenville, but close enough. A talk show host ended up doing/taking phone calls for three hours. Many of who blamed the girl.

"She was drunk, she was asking for it."

"She obviously had a reputation."

"This is a racist charge because one of the alleged offenders was black." I know I startled the neighbors screaming the What the F bomb at that one.

Etc, etc...

I was dumbfounded as was the host.

I had to turn the radio to another station because I was getting so pissed off.

With people in the community that think like this...it just adds another reason for me to get the hell out of here.

I saw the interview with the two accused. They're both terrible liars. They knew damn well it was rape. I hope they're convicted and get the max. Pigs.

reply to post by TDawgRex

"She was drunk, she was asking for it."
"She obviously had a reputation."
"This is a racist charge because one of the alleged offenders was black."

As if what happened (assuming its all true) wasn't bad enough for the girl, now she has to hear things like that from the public?

The court proceedings, the media coverage, and the pictures, have to be putting even more salt in the wound.

One thing I've noticed about rape cases that really disgusts me. It's always the woman's fault.

This society is sick.

it's a terrible story. rape is bad. taking advantage of an intoxicated person is bad. society is bad. the future looks worse.

reply to post by AQuestion


Well said!

reply to post by 123143


Horrible is at is rape goes both ways by some legal definitions...there are plenty of women teachers screwing their students...and as a result of them being a minor it's rape..not forcible rape but rape just the same...we live in a crazy world..

reply to post by daryllyn


Dear daryllyn,

I want start by telling you this, my ex-wife had been raped by one of her family members. I also want you to know that I raised three daughters. I know that rape is more about power than sex, I went and read the OP's linked article and found it to be nonsense. We don't need to feminize men to prevent rape, we need to teach then what it means to be a true man. Rather than teaching men to be weak, we should be teaching them the proper use of strength.

I sensed in your responses a personal hurt, I hope I am wrong; but, if you have or had a loved one experience rape, my heart goes out to you. I raised my daughters to be strong women and they are, maybe too much so. My two oldest daughters are married and they are in charge of their relationships. I don't promote weakness in men or women. I promote gentleness and that takes a lot of strength.

I wonder how masculine the football team would feel if a battalion of United States Marines, showed up to beat all their asses and break all their jaws. That's what I wanna know.

Well it depends on what you define masculinity to be. America is a country of gangs. And if your not a member of an illegal gang your a member of a legal one, like the law enforcement community or military.

When I was growing up in the 80's, to be a member of a gang was considered to be what cowards did. Cowards need back up, cowards need to be armed with guns and knives, where as men don't, men walk alone and face life that way..the hard way. Not saying this is a healthy way to be masculine either but its more masculine than modern day america.

This gang rape, was a "gang" rape. And the gang mentality is something young American males are indoctrinated into, either legally or illegally... The football team, is just another gang...and in every gang the one who has the greatest will power will control the unit, because member's of gangs are generally weak minded and easily influenced and controlled.

All gangs have leaders, weather they are military commanders or shot callers in street gangs. Like I said I always considered it to be for the weak the gang life. And stories like this current one, prove my point.

Males should be reminded that to be a man is to be under your own control, but the military industrial complex would run very short on recruits if the true version of masculinity was promoted more.

Originally posted by solarstorm
I wonder how masculine the football team would feel if a battalion of United States Marines, showed up to beat all their asses and break all their jaws. That's what I wanna know.

edit on 16-3-2013 by solarstorm because: (no reason given)

I wonder how masculine a battalion of US marines would feel if a platoon of 6 metre reptilians showed up to beat their asses and break a bit more than a jaw I suspect...

Do you wonder if fighting fire with more fire will put out the flame?

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by 123143

 

Horrible is at is rape goes both ways by some legal definitions...there are plenty of women teachers screwing their students...and as a result of them being a minor it's rape..not forcible rape but rape just the same...we live in a crazy world..

Yes, and when a woman is the perpetrator you'll note that no one ever disputes it.

When a man is the perpetrator the woman is still blamed in some way.

You can try to flip this all you like but no one is fooled, least of all the women.

This rape is like most in that it was enabled by a deeply entrenched, toxic masculinity. It’s a masculinity that defines itself not only in opposition to female-ness, but as inherently superior, drawing its strength from dominance over women’s “weakness,” and creating men who are happy to deliberately undermine women’s power; it is only in opposition to female vulnerability that it can be strong.

There's toxic masculinity perhaps as well as toxic femininity. "Inherently superior" and the rest can be applied to either but obviously it just depends on the individual and whatever their issues are. Although I do think a lot of the attribution of this "male dominance" dynamic is largely outdated and a myth to a large extent. It's become folklore really. Domestic violence between men and women for example are largely split down the middle as far who's responsible.

Straus and Gelles found that in couples reporting spousal violence, 27% of the time the man struck the first blow; in 24% of cases, the woman initiated the violence. The rest of the time, the violence was mutual, with both partners brawling.

Erin Pizzey who opened one of the first women’s refuges in 1971, has said that almost as many men as women are victims of domestic violence and found that over half (62%)[184] of the women she admitted were as violent as their partners

en.wikipedia.org...
Ect. ect.

As far as being punished for doing anything girly, again I think largely rubbish, a myth. "Preferring to read over rough housing outside", is this like gladiator times or something? Just like how girls get punished nowadays by their parents if they take an interest in mathematics or science.

Obsolete by however many decades in any case. He's just a bit off.

In HS, the girls were the ones to be pretty heavily going after the guys, not the reverse. But with this mindset that tries to get propagated it's these powerful, hulking, hormonal guys that are constantly chasing the ladies and harassing them, and if anything, the reverse is much more true.

A much more accurate depiction of the state of affairs now and where things are heading are Japan's younger generation.

Herbivore men (草食(系)男子 Sōshoku(-kei) danshi?) is a social phenomenon in Japan of men who shun marriage or gaining a girlfriend.[1] They are characteristically described as frugal, and interested in personal grooming.[2] Under this categorization scheme, men and women are either herbivore type (草食系 sōshoku-kei?) or carnivore type (肉食系 nikushoku-kei?). As of September 2010, 36% of Japanese men between the ages of 16 and 19 perceived themselves in this way.[3] Additionally, two surveys of single men in their 20s and 30s found that 61% and 70%, respectively, considered themselves grass-eating men.[4] This phenomenon is viewed by the Japanese government as a leading cause in the nation's declining birth rate, prompting the government to provide incentives for couples that have children, including payouts and free health care

en.wikipedia.org...

Some might think that isn't the case but it's an obvious trend in both Japan and America, contrary to antiquated tale.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

Dear FryeByrd,

I have to say that very few men are rapists. It is not a "masculine" thing, it is the act of despicable people. I consider myself masculine; but, it doesn't mean cruel, it means in control of yourself because I don't consider any man who is out of control to be masculine or manly or even worthwhile. The problem is that we are no longer teaching men to be men. We are not teaching them the proper use of strength, we reward bad behaviors as we reward men for being boys. Consider Charlie Sheen or many rappers (not all), they promote seeing women as objects. We teach boys to want stay children rather than take responsibility.

Thank for your reasonable response. I know that not all men are rapists and the article note that as well. It brings up, as you say, men don't have role models of manhood today. We've invested so much in this - I don't even know what to call it, maybe hyper-masculinity - with agressive sports, agressive business, agressive democracy that there is little room for reason and growth.

A generation or two ago, people wanted to grow up to be Einstein, Roosevelt (Franklin and Eleanor), Ghandi, and other heros now all everyone wants to grow up to me Ivan Bosesky, or Kim Khardasian, or a Drug Lord. Personal wealth, power and glory.

I think the most important point in the article is that when times are hard, for whatever reason, and men are feeling afraid, they bolster themselves by overpowering others, women, children, weaker (oh-there must be a better phase) men and the planet at large. Men have to teach men how to accept and deal with fear in non-violent ways. Women can't fix this - so many women today, to 'get ahead' are starting to act in this manner as well (I suppose some always have) - it's horredous (as is my spelling)

reply to post by 123143

One thing I've noticed about rape cases that really disgusts me. It's always the woman's fault.

Is that why we jail the women who are raped, as opposed to their rapists?

Originally posted by daryllyn
I do not understand why anyone would defend their actions. At all.

She is going to be damaged forever by this.

This is, of course, assuming that the allegations are true.

edit on 16-3-2013 by daryllyn because: (no reason given)

Please read the article - it's on video - and the defence "she never said no". Because she was mostly unconscious - that makes it okay??????

reply to post by AQuestion

I know that rape is more about power than sex

And you know this because you like raping people for power, instead of sex, eh?

Stop repeating the emotional mantras of the feministas and feminazis, Rape is about sex....

Rape USED power to ACHIEVE sex... it's not "About" power, as this is stupid.

It's like saying that bank robberies are about power... they aren't, they are about money.


All that being said, I really do love it that every timesome jack[snip]s rape a girl, suddenly, being MALE is on trial...

As if testosterone, and testicles... the physical embodiment of manliness, coalesced into an anthropomorphic representation of all that is masculine, and raped The goddess Mother Gaia.


Stop blaming rape on "Masculinity", it's childish.

You might as well blame war on Oxygen.

Or, you know... you could blame child deaths on MOTHERS!


DID YOU HEAR THAT PEOPLE! CHILDREN DIE BECAUSE OF MOTHERS!