Euthanizing the Defectives.

Originally posted by watchitburn


If someone is unable to care for themselves, or function in an acceptable manner in the rest of society without constant supervision. Then they could be considered a liability and safety hazard to the general public, not to mention a drain on resources and manpower.

Failure to function as designed = defective.

seig heil watchitburn, das fuhrer would be proud of you.
upload.wikimedia.org...

This poster (from around 1938) reads: "60,000 Reichsmark is what this person suffering from a hereditary defect costs the People's community during his lifetime. Fellow citizen, that is your money too. Read '[A] New People', the monthly magazine of the Bureau for Race Politics of the NSDAP."

en.wikipedia.org...

after the handicapped are dealt with who is next? perhaps those on welfare since they are also a "drain on resources and manpower"? "criminals"? those who have an opposing view or politics? people who are unemployed? people who don't have a full education? people who have a religion you don't like? people you just don't like?

Here is my 2 cents

I think people who are born or become handicap / disabled are that way for a reason.

I believe in re-incarnation, and in each carnation it is your task to learn certain lessons, as you learn you progress.

I think that people who have it easy and have perfect lives are in the lower grades and are learning very easy lessons.

I think people who have very difficult lives are in the higher grades or graduate classes, and are learning very difficult lessons.

So the reason a person is born mentally / physically handicap or disabled is because they are learning some very difficult life lessons, like loss of independence, overcoming difficult situations, people wanting to euthanize you ,and such.

The people that are taking care of them are learning lessons on compassion and caring for others.

Did you ever see the movie the Elephant Man, well that guy seemed like a pretty enlightened person to me.

This is just my opinion, I cannot prove it or anything, but it seems to make sense to me.

When I see a handicap or disabled person, I do not pity them or feel sorry for them.

And forget dollars and contributions to society on paper.

If someone can be a good friend, a loving family member, whatever... that's priceless. It's invisible, but it's an awesomely positive thing to have in the world.

Anyway, Lord Byron had a club foot and many ladies love him long time.

It's reassuring to see so many people as disturbed by the OP as I am.

All life is precious. Period. Help those that suffer. None of us are in a position to judge.

I grew up being told repeatedly I should have been aborted, and nothing was wrong with me, I was just unwanted. I developed an eating disorder by age 11 because of it. It was a long hard road out of hell, but I found my self worth, and I'd like to think I've touched many lives in a positive way--something far more rewarding than... that great, glorious thing some of you refer to as paying taxes.

No human on earth has any right to decide who deserves to live and who deserves to die.

People with unrelenting addictions--and any self-destructive tendencies--need compassion the most.

Your country's definition of productivity is a far cry from the purpose and diversity of expression entwined with the universe.

watchitburn
I usually like your threads but i find this one offense and highly disturbing..
Also where does it stop, who do we kill, and just how far do we go, do we start killing moderately or mildly intellectually disabled, or how about deaf or blind people many people with intellectual disabilities can have quite valuable and good lives with the right opportunities and support.

Caring for another person is one of the things that makes us truly human. Considering other humans only by their worth to the society and, thereby, to us, does not dehumanize those we consider. It dehumanizes us. It's simple human compassion that tells us that we shouldn't kill those that can not provide for the tribe. We are more developed than that, at least I'd hope that our social evolution has come along far enough..

I was born with a genetic disease my parents brought me up with compassion and love and they told me i could be anything i wanted in life i thank god for every day I'm alive they could have just let me die but they didn't they brought me home and gave me the best care anyone could have gotten..This thread is just so upsetting why would you post this ??? peace,sugarcookie1

reply to post by manicminxx

If someone can be a good friend, a loving family member, whatever... that's priceless. It's invisible, but it's an awesomely positive thing to have in the world.

Thanks for that. This is the truth.

CJ

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I have a severely disabled friend. He can't feed himself, or dress himself, or go to the toilet on his own. He is in a wheel chair, and just manages to steer it around with the little joystick. He can't talk, but communicates by staring at letters on a plastic board to spell out words. It is a long slow process to communicate with him, but it is worth it as he is such a brilliant guy with a fabulous sensed of humour. Every time I meet him he manages to cheer me up a little.

He is one of the happiest people, if not the happiest person I know, and talks about how much he loves his life. He has many friends, all of whom love him very much, as I do.

Why would you begrudge him that?

Originally posted by nothingwrong
You have no idea what you are talking about.

I have a severely disabled friend. He can't feed himself, or dress himself, or go to the toilet on his own. He is in a wheel chair, and just manages to steer it around with the little joystick. He can't talk, but communicates by staring at letters on a plastic board to spell out words. It is a long slow process to communicate with him, but it is worth it as he is such a brilliant guy with a fabulous sensed of humour. Every time I meet him he manages to cheer me up a little.

He is one of the happiest people, if not the happiest person I know, and talks about how much he loves his life. He has many friends, all of whom love him very much, as I do.

Why would you begrudge him that?

Thank you. Your friend is what makes living life. Appreciate and enjoy him as he does you. That is living.

CJ

reply to post by watchitburn


You are very brave in putting these thoughts out there for all to condemn you for. So, I will stay on topic and offer what I can see what would happen in the future.

I, too, don't believe in life at all cost, but I do believe in humanity at all cost. This means that if we had it within us to just kill anything and everything that didn't fit in with the 'norm' it would make us even more brutal of a species than we already are. So, putting down the unproductive people wouldn't be a reflection on them, it would be a reflection on us.

Worse, if we could kill for the reasons you suggest, then we actually wouldn't kill. As soon as a child with deformities is born, that child would be immediately taken away from the parents and thrown in a facility that salvages whatever healthy organs the child might have (heart, eyes, kidneys...). The child would be kept alive with a feeding tube shoved down its throat, shown zero love or compassion, and treated worse than a dumb animal until all of its parts are needed and harvested.

Personally, I'm just not ready or capable of allowing this to happen. We have to be better than this.

My experiences with the people you want killed have been positive.

When I was a child, my school had plenty of kids with terminal illnesses, down syndrome, some were slow, and one boy was blind. I was also friends with a girl from a very large family, who had two brothers with a terminal illness and her sister had down syndrome.
All would be considered a burden by your standards. I can tell you they weren't a burden on their families, or on the school system. Sure there was adjustment as when all things that are new and when I was in elementary school, we all had lots of questions. My friends family spent a lot of money taking care of the three ill children, (two passed away). But they weren't concerned about the money. The only thing that was a burden was watching their children suffer. But they learned so much from them and so did I.

All of them were filled with love, joy and wisdom. They look at the world differently and often made me look at the world differently and appreciate my life.

Now I'm a parent with a child that can easily be considered "undesirable."
She has multiple food allergies and eczema (the first in our families). We've spent a lot of money taking care of her. Yet the money means nothing. Money is worthless, she's worth everything. She has taught us so much about compassion, love, human nature (especially prejudice, and ridicule) , and being different adds color to our lives. She keeps us happy and healthy. She makes us appreciate what we have.

Without her food issues we also wouldn't be aware of what the food/ big pharma is doing to our bodies, I'd probably never come to ATS searching for answers.

reply to post by watchitburn


You don't understand that life because you don't live it. Who do you, or anyone else for that matter, think you are to decide who is or isn't defective? People aren't defective. Machines are defective. Consumer goods are defective. PEOPLE are not defective, no matter what disease or illness they may have. I'm just absolutely horrified that you would even use that term to describe a living, breathing thing.

reply to post by JustSlowlyBackAway


Yes, yes and yes! If I could star this a million times I would.

I agree that it's incredibly hard to deal with a child with a disease, disability, or some mental problem. But this teaches us to become more tolerant, patient and compassionate toward others. The child can be an inspiration to others and create happiness you never thought possible.

I have a sister who is slightly mentally retarded. She is happily married and all my other brothers and sisters are divorced and still trying to find themselves.

I have known many families with an abnormal child. They are the finest, most compassionate people i have ever known. Raising a child with a handicap should be a freaking college course it teach's so much. These children give far more to society than meets the eye. They teach tollerance, patience and compassion.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Thank you for your reasonable response.

That is something I have though about quite a bit. Why are humans so helpless for such a long time? It always seemed counter intuitive to me that the same species that has gone to the moon could be completely dependent on it's parents for years.

Your idea of "grandfathering" in the current ones and just asking if they wish to continue is a good one. I think that would be perfectly acceptable.

reply to post by dizziedame


Club feet is of course a correctable condition, as I stated earlier. If it can be fixed, it's not an issue.

My brother was born with club feet, and after the surgeries and braces he was physically fine by the time he was 3 or 4.
Unfortunately he is an oxygen thief as I like to call him, for many other reasons. I would not be disappointed to learn he was dead.

Some of these 'defective' people function well in society. I mean, where would we be without Stephen Hawking?

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reply to post by Druscilla


I think overall this did not go as poorly as I expected it would.

Look,
I'm not saying we should send out human disposal teams to snuff everyone out. But if someone is about to have a kid and it is identified that the child is going to be all screwed up, I just don't understand how someone could choose to subject their kid to that kind of life.

Maybe I got a little carried away. Maybe I don't have the perspective to appreciate the situation. I don't know, I'm just trying to be objective here.

I understand that some issues can't be identified until later on after birth. But a lot can be detected while still in the womb. Many defects can be corrected, and I think it won't be too long until we can fix just about everything. Until then something needs to be figured out.
Maybe I'm just failing to accurately present my point of view.

Anyway, It was not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings, if I did I apologize, but it wasn't unexpected. At least there were some reasonable responses and not all knee jerk emotional posts.

reply to post by watchitburn


Tell us; at what station on what kind of time table does the 'defective' train stop?

Let's dispense with all the obvious factors. Go ahead and throw any and every 'defective' into the lot.
Let's also select for beauty and long life too, so, anyone that has a family history of baldness, bad teeth, any requirement for corrective lenses, heart disease, obesity, or just funny looks, they may as well go too, right?

The point is to only leave a non-defective breeding population, correct?

If we're advancing the human race, making it better, then, everyone with an IQ below, hmm, 140 would need go into the pile too.

Yep, only people with an IQ north of 140 should be eligible to continue sucking air.

Thus, we can then guarantee the continued success of the human species with nothing left but intelligent, long-lived, beautiful people with zero genetic predispositions for disease, mutation, or anything that might be considered objectionable.

Hows that sound?

Maybe, just to make extra sure the human species is in good hands, we should make the requirement north of 150 IQ.

Sounds good to me. Pretty much everyone on the planet will be gone, leaving only us rightful few to get on with having a proper civilization without the bother or distraction of stupid, ugly, health-problem prone, short-lived people mucking about, sucking up resources.

Ah, but what about those menial jobs? There aren't many proper civilized people with 150+ horsepower between their ears that want to scrub toilets, plow fields, serve coffee, repair roads, drive delivery vehicles, and all the countless sundry other tasks of minutae average folk usually take care of.
Perhaps we could neuter and lobotomize a select group of people especially bred for strength, obedience, subservience, reliability and other factors so that we have a slave race to cater to our needs and desires in getting on with making a right proper civilization?

Hmmm?

Where does this train stop?

Eventually we'll reach technological singularity and then, hey, we might could do away with natural biology in developing an entirely planned, managed and engineered system of biology as well as one of machine existence and the middle ground of a fusion between the two.

We could then be like the Cybermen from Doctor Who, or the Daleks, where perfection of biology and technology is the only acceptable option.

If you don't understand how someone can choose to have the baby, even though it's going to be severely defective, well...When you know you have created life you will do anything to protect it. It can only be explained that way. It's pure love. Simple as that.

reply to post by watchitburn

But if someone is about to have a kid and it is identified that the child is going to be all screwed up, I just don't understand how someone could choose to subject their kid to that kind of life.

I understand what you're getting at, but again, it's not about the child. It's about us. Every action we take against someone is a reflection on us, not them.

If you can tease, harass, bully, or even put to death someone because that someone is sensitive, weird, deformed... This shows what is inside of you - what YOU are capable of. When I look into a mirror I do not EVER want to see the reflection of someone capable of ANY of these things.

Plus, we cannot possibly know just how important someone could turn out to be, whether deformed or even mentally retarded. The following clip is the first episode of a powerhouse mini-series called I, Claudius. I watched it over 30 years ago and I still think fondly on it today.

Claudius was a stuttering, deformed fool in ancient Rome that rose to become Caesar. Turns out he wasn't such a fool after all. Actor Derek Jacobi made the role of Claudius unforgettable.