Recent methane leaks, sinkholes show more evidence Dangerous Gas Theory may be correct!

reply to post by Phage


Both the density, and the pressure are created by the depth, and the weight of the water creating that pressure does not change. The deep water is essentially in a pressure cooker.

Essentially, a low temperature pressure cooker.

reply to post by poet1b

And when it gets warmer and expands it gets less dense.
How can it expand and not get less dense? It expands because the molecules move a bit more apart.

Essentially, a low temperature pressure cooker.

A pressure cooker does not allow the expansion. If sea levels rise it means the expansion is occurring.

Originally posted by poet1b

 

Yep, and there has been a serious lack of information coming out of the Arctic about expeditions aimed at monitoring the rapidly expanding release of methane on the vast Arctic shelves.

Oh, really. Have you kept up with the issue? There are perhaps a half dozen expeditions in the Arctic studying the ice and the tundra there, and they report regularly to the journals and to their own sponsors, at conferences and so on. NASA has satellites providing day-to-day information, available on their website. It's not their fault if you have not been following the news about it. A quick google showed that Nature, Science, Scientific American, New Scientist, Journal of Environmental Protection and the Journal of Geophysical Research all had articles in 2012 citing clathrates in arctic environs, as well as a ton of newspaper level articles and blog pages.

reply to post by Phage


They don't move apart, they move around, it's called excitation.

What happens in a pressure cooker as the temperature rises?

Take the average AC system. Compress the refrigerant, and it gets hot.

The deep ocean heats, the molecules become more excited, but the weight on top remains the same, so the pressure increases.

reply to post by puncheex


It's 2013.

Try to keep up.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by puncheex

 

It's 2013.

Try to keep up.

Just a bit early to be expecting written results this year, isn't it? Perhaps we've identified the problem.

reply to post by poet1b

The deep ocean heats, the molecules become more excited, but the weight on top remains the same

But the surface rises, releasing the added pressure.

Ok, let's say you're right. The expanded water exerts more pressure, even though that makes no sense because, since it expands, it loses density.

The abyssal warming produces a 0.053 (±0.017) mm yr−1 increase in global average sea level and the deep warming south of the Subantarctic Front adds another 0.093 (±0.081) mm yr−1

So let's add the two together to come up with a total of 0.146 mm/yr. So over 100 years we get a rise of 14.6mm. So, since you insist that expanded water exterts more pressure we somehow now have added 14.6mm of water over the entire surface of the ocean. So how much pressure is that? Easy to calculate. For a square cm of water it comes to an increase in volume of 1.46 cc ( 1 x 1 x 1.46). 1.46 cc of sea water weighs about 1.03 grams. So, over the span of 100 years, the pressure on the sea bed is increased by 1.5 g/cm2. That's about 3.3 lb/sf, on average 0.033 lb/sf/year.

Let's pick a depth, 2000 feet where the pressure is about 130,000 lb/sf. In 100 years we've added 3.3 lbs. That's a change of 0.003%, over 100 years. That's if the pressure increased. But it won't. A tsunami passing does more and in a concentrated area, not all spread out and all at once. Do we see earthquakes chasing tsunami across the ocean?

When the ice melts, the Earth spews fire. Here's an article:

www.spacedaily.com...

Quote: "After comparing these patterns with the climate history, there was an amazing match. The periods of high volcanic activity followed fast, global temperature increases and associated rapid ice melting."

Basically, the ice turns to water which is self-mobile and makes its way from land to sea, taking large amounts of mass off the land and putting it into the seas. Obviously the plates are thinner in the oceans, so this squeezes volcanoes like zits in the oceans and stresses the plates and more coastal and oceanic quakes and volcanic eruptions ensue. That research was done by researchers at the GEOMAR Helmholtz Centre for Ocean Research Kiel in Germany along with Harvard University's geology department. The data on that is clear, an amazing match as they said. This is fairly new research so perhaps Phage was not aware of it. It came out in late 2012.

They say that this HAS happened in the past and they have the data to prove it. But someone else postulated the same thing in late 2010, but phrased a little differently: the ice IS melting and that IS causing more volcanic eruptions and coastal and oceanic quakes. In other words, phrased in the present tense instead of the past tense. Who was the mysterious person who was two years ahead of one of the finest geological teams on the planet? IT WAS ME. Here's that info from late 2010:

www.allvoices.com...

Notice in the third paragraph I mention Japan prominently too. And what happened 2.5 months after I posted MISA Theory? Japan was hit by one of the largest quakes ever recorded, and where was that quake? Off the coast, in the ocean, EXACTLY as predicted. In fact, look over the last couple of years and see where almost all of the big quakes have been occurring - mostly along coastlines and in the oceans. And what just happened today? Another coastal volcano erupting:

www.newsobserver.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

Look back over the last two years at the volcanic eruptions and observe where they are happening. Look at just how many are along coastlines or are volcanic islands where the volcano peeks above the sea. Also, take note of the volcanic eruption off the coast of Oregon in 2010, and the pumice raft from a subsurface volcanic eruption near Australia this past year. There's two subsurface volcanic eruptions and one (Oregon) we didn't even know about for a year and the other we only were told about because that particular volcanic eruption generated a pumice raft.

There are 3 million volcanoes on Earth. Most are subsurface, in the oceans. Yet pay attention to where the volcanic eruptions are that we ARE told about: mostly on land. Yet the plates in the oceans are thinner, and there are way more volcanoes in the oceans. So there are undoubtedly volcanic eruptions in significant numbers taking place right now on the ocean beds and we don't know about most of them because A) we aren't being told; or B) because nobody is looking that deep.

It is those volcanic eruptions that are adding heat to the oceans. Off Australia, the water temps rose 5 degrees Celsius last year:

www.abc.net.au...

Quote: "Ocean temperatures rose up to five degrees last summer, and the Department says that has led to pockets of cooler water developing near the coastline."

Last year a nuclear plant shut down on the East Coast of the US because the OCEAN WAS TOO WARM to cool the plant, a first.

So the sequence of events is: 1) ice melts on land, mass moves to oceans where plates are thinner; 2) volcanic eruptions and quakes ensue, particularly along coasts and in the oceans; 3) the oceans warm up; 4) anoxia ensues; 5) methane and hydrogen sulfide belch from the oceans; 6) extinctions ensue.

BTW, hi, SteveR! Hadn't seen you in a while!

OP.... great thread and well put together.

Last year I was also convinced the methane and H2S was the problem as well until I went deeper down the rabbit hole.

Our entire system needs to be looked at as a whole and then dissected to see what is left after each cause is eliminated.

Methane and H2S plays a role, for sure, but what that role is, in my opinion, is still left on the table to be debated.

If there are more toxic fumes in the atmosphere, then why? If its coming in from the depths of the oceans due to tectonics, then why?

So many questions need to be answered with plenty of evidence.

I lean toward the Sun as being the causation but still so many questions to be answered that may indeed show another culprit elsewhere.

Sinkholes do happen in many places, noises have been going on since records have been kept, and climate change has also happened since the Earth's inception. These cycles the Earth goes through may indeed be because the Sun is in a different type of "state", which causes the Earth to also be in a different type of "state".

I just don't know. I do know you put a lot of time and effort into this research and applaud you for it. Keep at it and maybe you will find more you can clue us in on. For now..... I too will continue to look into the possible causes because if it is not the Sun.... what is causing all the change, if there is indeed mass change going on? It's a mystery to figure out.

reply to post by JonnyMnemonic


Very interesting read. So much so I'm going back to read it again.

I would suggest others read this too.

From research done in 2009.... and relevant to the discussion here.

Climate change may trigger earthquakes and volcanoes

FAR from being the benign figure of mythology, Mother Earth is short-tempered and volatile. So sensitive in fact, that even slight changes in weather and climate can rip the planet’s crust apart, unleashing the furious might of volcanic eruptions, earthquakes and landslides. That’s the conclusion of the researchers who got together last week in London at the conference on Climate Forcing of Geological and Geomorphological Hazards. It suggests climate change could tip the planet’s delicate balance and unleash a host of geological disasters. What’s more, even our attempts to stall global warming could trigger a catastrophic event (see “Bury the carbon”).

Evidence of a link between climate and the rumblings of the crust has been around for years, but only now is it becoming clear just how sensitive rock can be to the air, ice and water above. “You don’t need huge changes to trigger responses from the crust,” says Bill McGuire of University College London (UCL), who organised the meeting. “The changes can be tiny.” You don’t need huge changes to trigger a response from the crust. They can be tiny.

Among the various influences on the Earth’s crust, from changes in weather to fluctuations in ice cover, the oceans are emerging as a particularly fine controller. Simon Day of the University of Oxford, McGuire and Serge Guillas, also at UCL, have shown how subtle changes in sea level may affect the seismicity of the East Pacific Rise, one of the fastest-spreading plate boundaries. The researchers focused on the Easter microplate – the tectonic plate that lies beneath the ocean off the coast of Easter Island – because it is relatively isolated from other faults. This makes it easier to distinguish changes in the plate caused by climate systems from those triggered by regional rumbles.

Here's a few examples of the dangers of these gases from Jonny's site yesterday.

Crewman found dead may have breathed poison gas

CAPE TOWN - Metro emergency services paramedics on Wednesday said the body of a man was discovered on board an Asian vessel moored in Table Bay Harbour. The crewman's body was found in the engine room of the Shengfu Vessel just before noon. It is believed he may have inhaled a poisonous gas. Metro EMS' Keri Davids said no one else was on board at the time. “The paramedics declared him deceased on the scene. I believe they are still investigating the cause of death.” The incident comes just days after a fire on board a Korean vessel claimed the life of a Vietnamese man. The ship caught fire at the Table Bay Harbour. It is believed the vessel may have been purposefully torched.

Note how at the end of the article there it says a ship caught fire in the same harbor just days prior. They believe it may have been torched on purpose, but better yet, they may have some deadly gases pluming in that harbor.

Man and daughter found dead off Irish coastline

Neighbours in Ballydehob reacted with shock and devastation this morning following the deaths of a local farmer and his young daughter in west Cork overnight. Gardaí have begun an investigation following the recovery of the bodies of a 50-year-old man and a three-year-old girl from the sea off West Cork in the early hours of this morning. The narrow bothareen leading to the family's isolated farmhouse overlooking the water remained cordoned off this morning. "We just can't imagine what was going on at the time, it's mind boggling. I can't put words to it," neighbour Leslie Swanton said.

Neighbors are baffled, wife can't figure it out. But, of course the article makes an attempt at sanity by saying he had high blood pressure, but this may be a clear case of a sudden gas poisoning.

The body of the girl was located along the shoreline shortly before 2am. The body of her father was discovered a short time later in the water nearby. The girl's mother was involved in the search and she was present at the scene when the child's body was recovered.

Pilot turns flight around after smelling strange odor

ORLANDO, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35 ORLANDO) - An American Airlines flight taking off from Orlando International Airport turned around and returned this morning after the pilot reported smelling a "strange odor" in the cockpit, an airport official said. Flight 1083 took off for Dallas at 6:44 a.m. with more than 200 passengers. Moments later, the pilot called in a "strange odor." The plane turned around and landed safely at 6:49 a.m., according to Greater Orlando Aviation Authority public affairs director Carolyn Fennell said. There was no impact on airport operations, and no one was hurt, Fennell said. Passengers are being placed on alternate flights. The Federal Aviation Administration will investigate the incident. Read more: www.myfoxorlando.com...

Palmetto, FL crash kills pickup driver

Witnesses told investigators that just before the truck reached the intersection, it left the roadway, jumped the curb and continued north through the park. The truck struck a sign and two trees, then crossed the intersection, striking another sign and a third tree. The final impact stopped the truck, which then caught fire. The driver, the lone occupant of the truck, died at the scene.

Quote from Jonny about above accident

Sounds like the driver may have gotten a whiff of hydrogen sulfide and lost consciousness shortly before that intersection, then kept on going until something stopped the truck, which then caught fire and incinerated the driver, who may still have been alive at that point. This area is on Florida's Gulf Coast, downwind of the dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico, which are surely pluming hydrogen sulfide now...

Hazmat event, 30 people sickened in Oregon

Giant wave impact in Mexico claims life

Waves like this may result from subsurface landslides as methane hydrate deposits along coasts melt and collapse...

Biological hazard as locust swarm invades Israel

I thought they sent those locusts to Egypt???
This thread is a big circular train ride......
What the OPs are trying to do is throw a lot of unconnected data at the reader at once......
What Phage is trying to do is to inject some scientific methods into the mix,

Unfortunately he is being an arse about it.....

How about we try to present counter data in a little more civilisted fashion, as well as refraining from belittling and castigating the OPs???huh?

There are so many complicated cycles here that each part of this theory will deserve a separate thread......
Between trying to figure out the weight of the water now covering the ocean floors and its density, to methane releases in warmer ocean waters...to volcanic eruptions and their frquency to the content and creation of the air
pollution, not to mention how its all mixed into the general"atmosphere"

What i am saying here is the all encompassing tie ins the Boys make, must be filled in to make a whole framework.....
This is what Phage so arrogantly points out,
He wants the theory to be proven before you even present it for "discussion."

There is something basically wrong with this scenario as Jana ably points out, but add is a bone of contention with me, so i just look at the arguments waxing and waning as the differences of personality...
Phage is obviously a stickler for absolute facts....

Unfortunately these facts are sometimes the very things we are trying to derive through our discssions....
Instead of taking opposite positions and entrenching oneself,
Perhaps try a co operative effort at resolving the problems....?
just sayin

I regards to the earhquake,/ice melt correlation...id say it makes a lot of sense.....thoughi thought water couldnot be compressed.....?
Shifting pressures on the earths crust may cause some earthquakes we experience, tho perhaps not all....

I have a proposal that may be relavent as well....
Earths core may be heating up,
Bjirkland currents, are huge electric currents which actually conect the sun to all the solar systems planets.....
See electric universe theory.....

Perhaps with the suns cycles, more current (mega amperages)are produced at times, depending on what stimulates the sun......(we are passing into a cosmic energy cloud at this time.....the whole solar system that is...see NASA

The basic theory then is the increase in the amperage of the Bjirkland currents between us and the sun....has to manifest itself somehow
This could be cause for the heating effect which the core experiences
(being nickel iron-the same thing as the heating elements of a electric stove)
So what do ya thionk???Please dont be nasty now......im sensitive.....

reply to post by Phage


The deep water does seek to expand from the heat, but the deep water must push up the weight of all that water above it. This creates pressure that pushes out in all directions. Up, down and side ways.

Apply your calculations to a depth of 4,000 meters, which is the depth we are talking about.

Then multiply the grams per sq cm, time the surface size of S America's western coastline at those depths.

That is a whole lot of force.

reply to post by Vexatious Vex


Yepper, all that added pressure from the liquid ocean depths might have some effect.

Things start going pop.

reply to post by poet1b

Apply your calculations to a depth of 4,000 meters, which is the depth we are talking about.

Ok. At 4,000 meters the pressure is 843,264 psf. So that increase in depth of 14.6mm in 100 years increases the pressure (according to you) by 0.0004%. That's over a period of 100 years.

That is a whole lot of force.

It is a very small increase in the pressure, evenly distributed, over a long period of time.

reply to post by JonnyMnemonic

Basically, the ice turns to water which is self-mobile and makes its way from land to sea, taking large amounts of mass off the land and putting it into the seas.

Yes. It affects other things too, salinity in particular, and is being closely watched. Have you found any data about the rate of loss of glacial ice and mass redistribution? Or just using your ass backwards approach?

Here's that info from late 2010:

Your earthquake data seems off.
For 2010 I find 7,191 earthquakes of 4.5 or greater worldwide.
For 2006 I find 7,054.

Can you specify the parameters you used for verification purposes? I see you said US earthquakes. Why limit the data to the US? Are you cherry picking data?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Vexatious Vex

 

Yepper, all that added pressure from the liquid ocean depths might have some effect.

You understand that you and I have been talking about something else, right? We have been talking about the thermal expansion of water, not glacial melt.

reply to post by Rezlooper

Not that it helps your argument, but I've heard that the melting ice and permafrost could cause earthquakes??? Anybody else heard this? Could these earthquakes set off hydrates too?

I"ve read that AGW could increase the chances of methane leaks. Essentially, as I understand it in my limited state, the hydrate warms and then releases some of its methane.

Here's some random reading I had stored in my favorites:
www.underwatertimes.com - Scientists: Gas Escaping from Ocean Floor May Drive Global Warming; 'Methane Blowout' Explored...

...........
One hypothesis, called the "Clathrate Gun" hypothesis, developed by James Kennett, professor of geological sciences at UCSB, proposes that past shifts from glacial to interglacial periods were caused by a massive decomposition of the marine methane hydrate deposits.

Methane hydrate is a form of water ice that contains a large amount of methane within its crystal structure, called a clathrate hydrate. According to Kennett's hypothesis, climatic destabilization would cause a sharp increase in atmospheric methane –– thereby initiating a feedback cycle of abrupt atmospheric warming. This process may threaten the current climate, according to the researchers. Warmer ocean temperatures from current global climate change is likely to release methane currently trapped in vast hydrate deposits on the continental shelves. However, consumption of methane by microbes in the deep sea prevents methane gas released from hydrates from reaching the ocean surface and affecting the atmosphere.

Bubbles provide a highly efficient mechanism for transporting methane and have been observed rising from many different hydrate deposits around the world. If these bubbles escape singly, most or all of their methane would dissolve into the deep-sea and never reach the atmosphere. If instead, they escape in a dense bubble plume, or in catastrophic blowout plumes, such as the one studied by UCSB researchers, then much of the methane could reach the atmosphere. Blowout seepage could explain how methane from hydrates could reach the atmosphere, abruptly triggering global warming.

Thus, these first-ever quantitative measurements of a seep blowout and the results from the numerical model demonstrate a mechanism by which methane released from hydrates can reach the atmosphere. Studies of seabed seep features suggest such events are common in the area of the Coal Oil Point seep field and very likely occur elsewhere.
..........

'First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.'