Recent methane leaks, sinkholes show more evidence Dangerous Gas Theory may be correct!

reply to post by Rezlooper

I've backed up everything with links from the animal die-offs, drug-resistant bacteria, increasing earthquakes, methane levels, super storms, sinkholes, etc.

What increasing die-offs? All you have is internet news items. That is not a valid sample. Were die-offs in the 1970s reported on the internet? How about the 80s? All of them reported? Ever?

Drug resistant bacteria. I remember that one. Ignore increasing use of antibiotics as a cause because it must be...methane! Did you know the price of Apple stock has risen since the 1980s too. You missed that part of it. It must be related!

What increasing earthquakes? One set of reasonable data you have does not support your idea (it ain't no theory).

Yes. Methane levels. The other valid set of data that you have shows a very slight increase over the last 30 years ( 0.00003%) and somehow you link it to all that other stuff you think is increasing but have no real data to back your thought up with.

Not a lot of evidence for an increase in "super storms" but you don't think that the global warming everyone is talking about might have something to do with it?

What increase in sinkholes? All you have is internet news items. That is not a valid sample.

And Jonny's site links to literally hundreds of strange and unexplained explosions and mysterious deaths. All backed up with actual news articles.

Strange? I don't know. Unexplained? I don't know, did he follow up on any of them?
Any you throw a gasoline leak and a freon leak into the mix. Surely that must be related to the small increase in methane! "Actual news articles". And you think that is a valid indication of some increase. You think that all the events are always reported?

With the hundreds of links that we've provided, that's all wrong and full of BS and you're right, right?

Yup. It's on the internet so it must be true. And the more times it's repeated the truer it is. Right?

Because you said so! Nothing else to see here folks because Phage said so.Move along now.

And you still have not answered one of my questions in this thread. Nor do you dispute that you've cherry picked data and made things up. How do you know the gas in Jamaica was methane? How do you know it came from a fracture in the Earth's crust? Did you do any follow up? No. No need. You know what's going on.

More earth shaking in Florida

On Tuesday an elderly lady was evacuated from her home after she reported her home shaking and the tiles on her living room floor came up, as well as a crack through her floor and some walls. The neighbors were also evacuated until they could determine it was safe. They checked her home for a sinkhole and it wasn't. She was allowed back home after a few hours. Here is another case of earth shaking going on in Florida.

Eighty-eight-year-old resident Elsie Hall and her caretaker still do not know what caused Hall's home to shake and the floor to buckle Tuesday morning, prompting a sinkhole scare that attracted news crews from as far away as Miami. Upholstered chairs have been placed over the concrete where the floor tiles popped up in Hall's living room. Some buckled tiles on the floor remain. A crack runs along the ceiling in a hall. Another crack extends along a wall in the hall ending in the corner of the kitchen doorway.

reply to post by Rezlooper

Methane!

Oh no. I have a hang nail. Methane!

Rezlooper - Thank you so much for the info ... very interesting.

This is not within my area of expertise (I am a Psychologist and work with mentally-ill people) so I am learning a lot here about this 'cause for concern' topic. Fascinating, alarming and worrisome, especially in light of the recent sinkholes in the area in which I reside, which is highly unusual. So, your thread piqued my interest, as you are very informed and knowledgeable. Thanks for the hard work and the informative and insightful member posts are also appreciated.

On another note;, it can be distracting and annoying when others attempt to manipulate or disturb the delicate balance of a thread. However, there are adults with a mental illnesses, one in particular, where (to them) the last word of your sentence is the beginning of an argument.

Most everything gets turned into a debate, a drama-inspiring argument or plain ole one-upping. You say it's Black, they say it's White -- You say White, they say Black.

It is known as Oppositional Defiant Disorder, more common amongst adolescents than adults. However, a small percentage of adolescents with this insidious disorder never outgrow it. And, then it is commonly referred to as Adult-ODD. Those with Adult-ODD also don't want you to have what you need/want, whatever that might be.

The key is to completely ignore -- be cool and dispassionate ... works every time. If it is fed, it will keep coming back for more feedings. Thanks again ~ JANA

reply to post by Jana12


Thanks for the post Jana. It's funny you posted this because I had just decided I was done arguing with the adolescents. It's late, I'm tired and it's way past my bed time

reply to post by Jana12


I gave you a star for that and would have given you a dozen more if it were possible. You hit the nail squarely on the head.

Having taken basic psychology and industrial psychology in evening courses I full understand what you are saying, not that I am claiming to be an expert with just two evening courses but they do give me a platform on which to look at your statements with more than a little understanding.

In fact there is a slightly humorous admonition that fits right in with your conclusions...

It is not a good idea to wrestle with a pig. You just end up covered in pig feces and mud and the pig enjoys it.

reply to post by Jana12

On another note;, it can be distracting and annoying when others attempt to manipulate or disturb the delicate balance of a thread.

The delicate balance of a thread? That's a new one. Asking the OP questions disturbs it? Sorry I thought the point of a thread was discussion.

You say it's Black, they say it's White -- You say White, they say Black.

No. He says it's black, I say "but what about this?" --- he says "the die-offs". I say "well, what about this?" he says "the explosions". Never addressing a single direct question while every question he asked was answered.

It is known as Oppositional Defiant Disorder,

It's known as asking questions about someones position and them evading those questions.

The key is to completely ignore

Yes. No need to answer troublesome questions which may cause problems with your theory. Good idea.

So tell me Jana12. Do you really think that asking questions about a topic in a science oriented forum should be discouraged? Is that what your training (as a scientist) has taught you? Never question? How did you learn anything? How did you separate the nonsense from sense?

reply to post by Rezlooper


The state of Florida is mostly sitting on Limestone.

Clean or unpolluted rain has a slightly acidic pH of about 5.2, because carbon dioxide and water in the air react together to form carbonic acid, a weak acid (pH 5.6 in distilled water).

Limestone is composed largely of calcium carbonate.

Therefore, the carbonic acid within the rainwater would react with the calcium carbonate within the limestone, thus dissolving it.

Sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide would cause the rainwater to become even more acidic, due to the formation of sulfuric acid and nitric acid respectively.

So understanding these bits of reality would lead me to believe the Florida sink hole and "Old Woman's" house shaking might be from limestone being dissolved, effectively destabilizing the foundation the house was sitting on.

But maybe you're right, it's all METHANE!



AAC

reply to post by Jana12


Nicely put! Sometimes people get stuck on a page of life and cannot seem to turn to a new page. I agree, just ignore them, they usually go away.

P

reply to post by Phage


The link to the article was only meant to prove that the deepest parts of the ocean have seen temperature rises, and this is causing the depths of the ocean to expend.

My observation that the expanding depths of the oceans would put pressure on the basins that hold those expanding depths, is basic mechanics.

If you want to disagree with the mechanics, please present a point.

reply to post by poet1b

Ok.

You failed to consider that the thermal expansion of water is accompanied with a corresponding reduction of density. Warm water "floats" on cold water because it is lighter (less dense).

While the warming of the oceans may lead to a slight change of sea level it won't put more pressure on the sea bed.

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


That's not what causes sink holes in Florida.

Rising ocean levels will have a considerable increase in the instability of Florida.

reply to post by poet1b


Popeye would never speak in such shortsighted absolutes... would he?

www.csmonitor.com...



AAC

The kernel of this theory IS science.

Clathrate gun hypothesis

However, there is stronger evidence that runaway methane clathrate breakdown may have caused drastic alteration of the ocean environment and the atmosphere of earth on a number of occasions in the past, over timescales of tens of thousands of years; most notably in connection with the Permian extinction event, when 96% of all marine species became extinct 251 million years ago

Now are you feeling jocular about methane?

Rezlooper and Jonny are doing an important job here. They are monitoring world events looking for SIGNS that things are changing. It is not supposed to be 'evidence' in the traditional sense. To disagree with their interpretations of events is going to be a matter of personal opinion. Just as they can't prove their interpretation, one can't prove they are wrong either. Detractors get caught up in this and completely MISS the science in the foundation of this theory.

In 2008 the United States Department of Energy National Laboratory system and the United States Geological Survey's Climate Change Science Program both identified potential clathrate destabilization in the Arctic as one of four most serious scenarios for abrupt climate change, which have been singled out for priority research. The USCCSP released a report in late December 2008 estimating the gravity of this risk. According to data released by the EPA atmospheric methane (CH4) concentrations (ppb) remained between 400-800ppb (between years 600,000 BC to 1900) and since 1900 have risen to levels between 1600-1800ppb.

This is real stuff. Yet the whole topic gets dismissed because of a difference of opinions. It is a tragedy for us and the planet.

reply to post by Phage


The density is created by depth, not temperature. the depth is not changing, well actually it is increasing, but not enough to make a difference. The weight of the water will not decrease.

Warmer deep ocean waters mean more pressure. Some of it will push up, but it will also push out.

This would raise the possibility of more Earthquakes in S America, and possible volcanic activity.

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


Ok, you got me.

The commodore is not me papa.

reply to post by poet1b

The density is created by depth

No. Pressure is "created" by depth. The amount of pressure is determined by the density.

Air is less dense than water even with 100 miles of atmosphere above us, the air pressure at the surface is equal to the water pressure at 33 feet. The warmer air becomes, the less dense it becomes. The less dense it becomes the less pressure. This is what causes low pressure areas.

The same applies to water but to a much lesser degree. The warmer water gets the less dense it gets (because it expands). The warmer the water gets, the less pressure it exerts.

Originally posted by Jana12On another note;, it can be distracting and annoying when others attempt to manipulate or disturb the delicate balance of a thread. However, there are adults with a mental illnesses, one in particular, where (to them) the last word of your sentence is the beginning of an argument.

Psychoanalysis by internet proxy. Get it here first.

As Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." People come to forums for many reasons, yours among them, but I imagine that mainly they come to have a good time. That means different things to different people - some like confrontation, some like showing off, some like sympathy, or empathy. I think, this is just a cigar.

reply to post by SteveR


Yep, and there has been a serious lack of information coming out of the Arctic about expeditions aimed at monitoring the rapidly expanding release of methane on the vast Arctic shelves.

We could be seeing global warming unfold in the next 25 years, currently not predicted for several centuries.

How likely is hard to guess, but the evidence may have already been discovered, the news might not ever get delivered, until the waves are washing over Florida.

Originally posted by SteveR
Rezlooper and Jonny are doing an important job here. They are monitoring world events looking for SIGNS that things are changing. It is not supposed to be 'evidence' in the traditional sense. To disagree with their interpretations of events is going to be a matter of personal opinion. Just as they can't prove their interpretation, one can't prove they are wrong either. Detractors get caught up in this and completely MISS the science in the foundation of this theory.

In 2008 the United States Department of Energy National Laboratory system and the United States Geological Survey's Climate Change Science Program both identified potential clathrate destabilization in the Arctic as one of four most serious scenarios for abrupt climate change, which have been singled out for priority research. The USCCSP released a report in late December 2008 estimating the gravity of this risk. According to data released by the EPA atmospheric methane (CH4) concentrations (ppb) remained between 400-800ppb (between years 600,000 BC to 1900) and since 1900 have risen to levels between 1600-1800ppb.

Yes, it is real stuff, and there are real scientists out there measuring it and supplying those methane concentrations and rate changes. R & J aren't doing that; they're listening to the radio and funneling anecdotes from Jones et al. to the forum. Now, it's perfectly within their rights and our customs that they do so, but there is no guarantee that their anecdotes will be met with open arms by everyone; even real scientists aren't guaranteed that. Dissenting views have been classified as "adolescent" by a presumed expert in the field, and in my opinion that is the shameful thing here. Not to speak of off-topic.

This is real stuff. Yet the whole topic gets dismissed because of a difference of opinions. It is a tragedy for us and the planet.

It seems to me that the whole topic is not being dismissed at all; it's being flooded in verbiage (mine among the rest), it shows no signs of an early death, and I think it's illuminating.

Vive la tragedy!