This unbelievable video just made the front page of AOL.com

Originally posted by flexy123
Great video, nothing new for me here.

But I had a problem with one specific phrase the guy used in the video. He said, in regards to SOCIALISM
"we know (already) that socialism doesn't work, we in the US are all about each working towards our own success/wealth" etc.. (freely citing).

Sorry, this is wrong and I was kind of annoyed when he said that, especially since it was ironic to say this IN THIS PARTICULAR VIDEO where he obviously shows that "unregulated capitalism" doesn't work at all.

"Socialism" as such has not proven to "not work", what has proven to not work was COMMUNISM or the socialism as seen in countries such as former Eastern Germany, Soviet Union, Cuba etc. There is no doubt about this.

Saying that "socialism has shown not to work" is absurd if we CONSIDER that some of the most successful and "happiest" countries on this planet CAN BE CONSIDERED socialist, for example Nordic countries such as Sweden, Norway etc... I even had Americans already saying that Germany "is socialist". (Whatever they define as "socialist"). The problem only that countries such as Norway, Sweden, Germany although in some way "socialist" are extremely, extremely different from those "socialist" (communist) countries such as former Soviet Union etc. It's comparing Apples with Bananas.

edit on 5-3-2013 by flexy123 because: (no reason given)

I'd be curious to where socialism has worked? Spain? France? Maybe Greece? You could say UK, but it's a form of Hybrid socialism/capitalistic society such as the US is progressing to.

The Monetary System IS the problem. Tool for seperation and division. To "move" to the next level of Civilization, we must invent another way of living...or keep repeating the same issues over and over again.

Originally posted by Atom12
reply to post by NorEaster

 

This video acts as if there is big pile of money in the middle of the room and the rich happen to get there first.
Wrong! Wealth distribution? How about working for it?

most of the 1% dont work for it, they are BORN to it.

Once they are done squeezing every last penny out of the working class, the rich will feed upon each other until only one is left standing....

...the problem with a winner-take-all system is that eventually there is nothing left to take.

There is nothing wrong with making money. There will always be people that flourish in any given economic system.

Reality check. If you gave the bottom 20% say $200,000. I'm willing to bet that 90% of them would be poor again in less then 3 years. That is the problem with the poor, they don't know how to prosper in the US economic system. Many of them either exist on benefits or work low wage jobs and have no vision of a better economic reality.

Giving money to the poor is like pissing into the wind. It might feel good at first but then it's a mess.

I know many people on some type of welfare. These people are not driving around in the new cars, selling drugs, and cheating the system to get by. They are, for the most part, really trying to get out of the situation they have, for good or bad reasons, found themselves in.

The reality is that with the way things work for these people it is VERY difficult to get out of the system once you are in. Lets imagine for a moment... A girl is in a marriage she thinks she will be in for life living as, not poor per say, but at least on no assistance and making it by with her husband. She has 3 kids through the marriage and everything looks great. But hubby decides he wants to get his rocks off with anything and everything that breathes. Now putting aside differences of opinion on the allowed reasons for a divorce or what should be acceptable and dealt with in a marriage...

Let's just say she / he decide to split. Now she has 3 kids and no education working minimum wage to support her kids and the ex decides his fun is more important than child support. So she goes to school to try to get a degree so that she can get a better job and not scrounge for coins in the cushions to buy milk. This goes on for a while but eventually she ends up in public housing, on food stamps, and medicaid. Again, let's put aside all of our preconceived opinions of WHY someone should get on assistance or IF they should be allowed to. This is what this mother felt was right for her family.

At this point every cent she makes is watched by her "handlers" (the govt. parties assisting her). This is a good thing. Let's make sure she doesn't cheat and start making lots of money and still living off us. However, when her check is a little more... let's say $50. Well, now her food allowance for her children goes down by $100 and her rent (public housing) goes up by $75. She might even lose the help she had with child care for "making so much". So how does one get OUT of the system when you can't even get ahead in this type of situation?

The only way this mother (and others) can really make it is to continue making the same amount until they can get one BIG increase enough to support them to get off entirely. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

All situations are different but in my past I have had too many friends caught in this cycle. Right or wrong, whatever the reason, it still sucks. And it is just getting worse. =( (BTW this is an actual true story, experienced first hand by my life long best friend.)

reply to post by flexy123


I see what your saying and there are several different forms of communism, socialism, democracies, and others. I think the main reason none of these forms of society have worked is because of the corruption at the top. Calling your society democratic republic doesn't make it so. It is the practice of the rules of a democratic republic that make it so. When you have an out of control ruling class that bands together and does not play by the same rules as everyone else then you do not have a democratic republic. When you are only presented with two options for a president and all others are minimized by the media, you do not have a democratic society. When entities with vast sums of money and influence can steer the publics opinion, you do not have a fair society.

It is important to not get hung up on the terminology and instead judge a society by it's practices.

Originally posted by jaws1975
S+F Op, great video how it shows us visually just how bad we are being screwed. What is interesting though is the fact the msm is releasing this. I just feel like there is an agenda at play, the same way I felt when they started releasing all the drone info a few weeks ago, it's as if they are inciting something in the general public.

they are releasing it now, simply because of the numbers. they want the armed, homegrown militias that are already formed (maybe a few thousand) to start a violent uprising. they then can imprison these few, and propagandize that these people are the real nutty ones, and your government came in to save innocent civilians from harm. this will put a damper on any type of other uprising, due to the general media hyped image of armed militias all being a bunch of nut cases.
if the uprising grew without violence, and millions are protesting, the government has a harder time because of the shear numbers. the media will be unable to label millions of americans as all of them being nut cases, because of the massive numbers of normal "looking" people. thus, they lose the advantage of painting everyone with the extremist brush

Originally posted by Wildbob77
There is nothing wrong with making money. There will always be people that flourish in any given economic system.

Reality check. If you gave the bottom 20% say $200,000. I'm willing to bet that 90% of them would be poor again in less then 3 years. That is the problem with the poor, they don't know how to prosper in the US economic system. Many of them either exist on benefits or work low wage jobs and have no vision of a better economic reality.

Giving money to the poor is like pissing into the wind. It might feel good at first but then it's a mess.

Blanket statements like your's clearly show a lack of critical thought regarding the matter. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the solution to the problem is to give money away.

The wage disparity problems are compunded by multiple factors. The system is designed to keep the poor where they are.

You can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps without a decent education. You can't get a decent education without the abilty to finance it. You can't make a decent living and save money for an education working for minimum wages. That's if you can find a job that hasen't been taken by someone willing to work for less than minimum wages (undocumented workers).

....it goes on and on.

The entire basis of this thread is flawed.
There is nothing wrong with the information presented in the video. I make no attempt to support or refute it.
It is as it is presented. I have no problem with the numbers as they are what so ever.

The flaw lies in the presumption that wealth is in anyway shape or form "distributed".
Wealth is earned. Wealth is built. Wealth is made it is not simply "distributed" like a lottery ticket winning.

The basic problem is that you folks have no idea how to build it, earn it, make it or keep it.
If you did you would be wealthy.
Since you are not wealthy you think something must be wrong.
You yourself are not responsible for your current condition.You yourself are honest and a hard worker so why are you not wealthy? It must be that somehow those wealthy people have cheated? They cant have worked as hard as you have to get where they are.

Well you are right and you are wrong. Yes at different levels those who have gained sufficent wealth to buy influence have rigged the game in their favor. That gives them a distinct advantage that makes it really hard for you and I to reach their level. They have purchased the police power of government. The power to enforce their will upon the market.
That fact HOWEVER does not mean that you and I are locked out of being wealthy. What it means is that we have to play the game differently.
To start you need to take a really hard look at yourself and ask yourself some tough questions. "How did I get where I am today?" "What decisions lead to my current situation?" "How much money do I take in every week and how much do I pay out?" "Do I spend money on things that harm me or reduce my ability to earn?"
"Given those numbers how can I build wealth?" "Do I even know what real wealth is?"

Those are going to be hard questions for some of you to answer. For starters you need to know that real wealth is not measured in big houses and fancy cars. Its not measured in how many gold chains you have on your neck or rings on your fingers.
Real wealth is about your independance. How independant are you from "the system". Those who are truely wealthy can pick up and any time and move. They are shielded form the effects of down markets and economic instabiltiy. They do not worry about being laid off from a job. They do not worry about rising energy costs. Its not because they have huge bank accounts either.
If you doubt me ask yourself how is it that a professional athelete who makes millions of dollars and drapes himself in the trappings of the wealthy lose everything in very short time frames? How do actors and musicians find themselves living the life of the poor?
Is it because of some vast conspiracy or because they had no clue what wealth is and how it works?

reply to post by Bearack


I would have to disagree with you, getting to the top isn't about working hard, its about lying, cheating, stealing, and politics that's how you get ahead. I don't know how many times I have been offered bribes, told not to say anything, or to do something dishonest or unlawful throughout my career. When I say no I don't feel comfortable with that or I refuse, your immediately blacklisted as a snitch or a goody goody and no one wants anything to do with you. My wife was recently denied a promotion because her boss promoted a fellow coworker. Not because she was more skilled but because she was friends with the boss. Now the woman who was promoted is pawning off all her new responsibilities onto my wife and other coworkers because she can't handle the job and the boss is looking the other way.

reply to post by NorEaster


I saw this on a different feed yesterday and shared it widely. It was not new info for me but I realize there are many people who still do not understand what "wealth inequality" is and how it applies to the average American citizen.

And please, all of you..?...(I know the epithets I would like to use, but to be nice I will just say commenters), on here talking about socialism and communism, there is this thing called a dictionary, or if you are firmly entrenched in electronic media there is Google, Bing, etc.; it is very easy to look up the meanings of words before you start throwing them around in a public forum with no clue as to what you are talking about, causing the rest of us to doubt your intelligence. You might want to take five minutes to discover the correct applications of those words.

Originally posted by bigcountry08
reply to post by Bearack

 

I would have to disagree with you, getting to the top isn't about working hard, its about lying, cheating, stealing, and politics that's how you get ahead. I don't know how many times I have been offered bribes, told not to say anything, or to do something dishonest or unlawful throughout my career. When I say no I don't feel comfortable with that or I refuse, your immediately blacklisted as a snitch or a goody goody and no one wants anything to do with you. My wife was recently denied a promotion because her boss promoted a fellow coworker. Not because she was more skilled but because she was friends with the boss. Now the woman who was promoted is pawning off all her new responsibilities onto my wife and other coworkers because she can't handle the job and the boss is looking the other way.

I say balderdash! The majority of businesses in the US are small ventures built by entrepreneur's, many whom gave up their personal life to reinvest back into their company. These are the backbone to capitalism and are the primary employer of the people of this nation. Yes, there are cheats and scumbags out there. That's just being human, however to attribute thugs to entrepreneurs is not only inaccurate, it's also asinine.

reply to post by Blarneystoner


The system is not designed to keep anyone in any specific class. I think that is stupid.

However, children of the middle class have more opportunities to succeed then children from poor families. One of my kids helped out in an Appalachian classroom for a few months. She said that the two best students in the classroom would have been below average in the school system from our city. The rest were grades behind. The problem was the parents. When they had parent teacher conferences, the parents didn't want to hear how to help their kids. The parents would get argumentative when the teachers made suggestions on how to improve their kids scholastic performance. In short they would say their kids don't need no more school. So, you have poor people who were limiting their children's chance for success before they even got out of grammar school.

We do live in a system where people with a good idea can move rapidly up the economic scale however rare that might be. We also have a lot of people in the middle class who are happy with their lot in life.

Most poor are poor because of the choices they make. No one is forcing them to say in the improvised class.

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by NorEaster

 

This is obviously a pro-socialism, obozo inspired propaganda piece - just like the "life of julia", and the film about "stuff" that all college students are made to watch - brought to you by cass sunstien and the un depopulation crowd.

Unless Obama has been in office for the last 20 to 30 years your point is null and mute. There have been republicans and democrats in the whitehouse over that time period, I think the blame can be shared equally between parties.

Originally posted by Bearack


I'd be curious to where socialism has worked? Spain? France? Maybe Greece? You could say UK, but it's a form of Hybrid socialism/capitalistic society such as the US is progressing to.

Not sure if you read to the end but he already gave you something of an answer. In the Nordic countries and Germany - all of which arguably have higher standards of living than the US - there exists a vibrant welfare state that many Americans would term 'socialist'. It works there.

Even in France, which free-market ideologues would have you believe should have collapsed around 1986, things still pretty much work. Certainly the casual visitor wouldn't notice much difference between there and the US. Apart from the superior food obviously!

One of the things that hasn't been mentioned is that tremendous inequality is actually rather economically and socially inefficient. It tends to have a corrosive effect on growth. And the downside of not educating, say, a potential cancer-cure discoverer because it's 'too expensive' should be obvious.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by Blarneystoner

 

Most poor are poor because of the choices they make. No one is forcing them to say in the improvised class.

Really? Do you really believe that? Personal anecdotes aside.... it's not always the parents fault. That kind of thinking is narrow and uninformed.

Here's a couple of things you should at least beconme familiar with before forming an opinion.

9 reasons the poor stay poor

The Cycle of Poverty

When you find yourself in the shoes of destitution, I can only hope that people will not be as dismissive as you are.

reply to post by Blarneystoner

Once they are done squeezing every last penny out of the working class, the rich will feed upon each other until only one is left standing....

...the problem with a winner-take-all system is that eventually there is nothing left to take.

That would be the eventual outcome but usually that kind of king of the hill system collapses before then.

See Egyptian Ruins
Roman Ruins
Greek Ruins

Empire building (empire state building)

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by Blarneystoner

 

The system is not designed to keep anyone in any specific class. I think that is stupid.

Your post disproves itself. You say

Most poor are poor because of the choices they make. No one is forcing them to say in the improvised class.

But you already contend that

you have poor people who were limiting their children's chance for success before they even got out of grammar school.

Unless you think that in some way those kids "chose" those parents then you have to concede that the circumstances of their birth are impacting negatively on them. That's not a choice they made.

reply to post by JuniorDisco


Please show me how the "system" is designed to keep anyone down

I put myself through a University and got my degree in Engineering. I worked a series of crappy jobs and lived in very modest accommodations, usually with 4 or 5 other students tying to make their way to their degree.

It's not easy but it's also not that hard. Now, I'm in the top 10%. How does my success hold anyone else back?