This unbelievable video just made the front page of AOL.com

Originally posted by Wildbob77

I think that companies that outsource should face a huge tax penalty to the point that it would cost more then they could save.

Globalization is IMO the BIGGEST contributor to our current economic problems. I am personally convinced that without rigid measures which penalize globalization we will NEVER get out of this slump.

There *must* me laws, tax penalties and so forth. Companies are outsourcing and manufacturing into 3rld word countries, because this is what companies do when they look for the most profitable way to go about it, and outsourcing is top on the list. IT HAS TO STOP or our economy will never recover!

Originally posted by Cyruay
We have the brains, the know-how, the technology and the feasibility to build entirely new civilizations.

Seeing how at the last elections ALMOST 50% voted for Romney and believed (and still believe) that MORE WEALTH needs to flow to the rich (lol, lol and 1000x lol) - I hardly see this as evidence for that "we" have brains.

On a side-note, if those 1%-5% *already* have so much wealth, where are all those jobs and all the benefits THOSE Elites are supposed to create for the rest of us? I mean, as the video shows they obviously have enough money, even with Obama as president? Obviously, their wealth must serve other purposes than those claimed by the right. Obviously, the super-rich have other priorities than using their money to create jobs.

reply to post by totallackey

...if the SHTF, would you give ten pounds of gold for a potato? Would I take it?

You might give up some of them potatoes for eggs? How many pounds of potatoes would you give me for one chicken? Would I take your potatoes if someone else offered an equal weight of gold? The gold is small, I can hide that. The potatoes are a big sack and "in a SHTF scenario" they will soon be stolen or spoil. The gold won't.

I can trade the gold down the road for fresh potatoes. Gold is just one asset to round out all the assets in your possession. It is tangible, durable and small. Thats why it has value "in a SHTF scenario". It always has.

You won't need ten pounds of gold for one potato either. Down the road from you someone else is charging a lot less. Better eat them potatoes before they spoil.

Then what?

Originally posted by Adaluncatif
If the top 1% have 40% of the wealth I predict that the 99% will seize that wealth through force. America solves all its problems through violence. If I was in the 1% I would leave America while I can.

They're not scared of anybody coming to do that.

How do you think you could? Sure they are out numbered , but this isn't medieval times where you can storm the castle and rob all the jewels and ride off with it.

Originally posted by nomnom

As for the outsourcing of our jobs, well which ones? People like to talk about how the US has lost manufacturing jobs, but do you know to whom? Robots. We have had a steady increase in production in the US for decades. 1/3 of the jobs were lost to automation.

Who is building the robots? Japanese or Chinese.
Who is programming the robots? Software engineers from Pakistan and India which work for $7/hr.

Also, the factories located in Swasiland or whatever other country (as opposed to in the US/EU) means also that money is not staying or flowing in our countries which it WOULD if the factories would be in our countries instead. So I dont think it plays such a big role that companies nowadays produce with robots, the end result is the same, money flowing elsewhere.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by pslr2301

 

Whose fault is this?

Is it the fault of the system or is it choices the individual has made?

I would support a different kind of welfare that helped people to get jobs where they could actually contribute to society. I think that it would be better to pay for an education for the person that you describe, as long as it was in a field that had high demand for workers and it paid a good wage.

Also, your example is the one that is always used by people making these argument. Through no fault of her own, a woman with children is trapped in the system.

If you don't want to be poor, graduate from high school. Don't have children before you are married and have a good income. It's really pretty simple and it's not rigged against anyone.

I am not in a position to place blame on anyone. Though if I had to venture a guess I would have to say that it does not lie solely on any one person. It is, in my opinion, a combination of many choices, opportunities (both taken and missed), and people (primarily / solely herself and her ex-husband).

I agree with supporting an education. However, I do feel that it should be allowed for any degree. Why limit someone just because the job pays less. I would love to go to culinary school it helps society and good cooks are in some demand I would think but MOST culinary jobs don't pay much. Thought about becoming a librarian but one cannot make much and that requires a master's degree... except in that case it helps society but is possibly not a high demand job. So where do we draw the line?

Yes it is a common argument but does that make it any less valid or true? Yes a percentage are cheating the system. A percentage are not. So one bad apple ruins the bunch then? Everyone has to suffer? I am not sure the answer to that.

In this case she did NOT have children before marriage and her ex-husband made good money. No they weren't rich but they were at the low end of middle class. What is the definition of "good income"? What is good enough?

It may not be rigged but the point of my post was to highlight the difficulty that some people may have in getting out of the system that they NEVER thought they would be in.

reply to post by NorEaster


I've read all 8 pages up to this point, and the only thing I get from this is pathetic whining and unsupported conclusions. Not one of the posters who attribute this "inequity" to thoieving, greed and favoritism has offered anything in suuport except their envy and hurt feelings.

Take a good look at the most recent list of the 1% published as the "Forbes 400," and you will see just who makes up these "villains" and "scoundrels" and how they made their ways onto the list and into the "1%."

The country’s three richest entrepreneurs drove much of those gains, continuing to add billions to their net worth, even as they give money away. Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Larry Ellison, who hold onto their respective spots at numbers 1, 2 and 3, were up $7 billion, $7 billion and $8 billion, respectively. Ellison’s $8 billion jump was the biggest dollar gain of anyone on the list this year. Pals Gates and Buffett are also the most generous people on the planet, having given $28 billion and $17.5 billion to date, respectively, including $1.5 billion that Buffett gave away since the last rich list

There has been much discussion of late about the widening gap between rich and poor and what role the wealthiest Americans should play in fixing society’s ills, and how much taxes they should pay.

This list on the surface will perhaps exacerbate these concerns, but a deeper analysis instills confidence that the American dream is still very much alive. Seventy percent of the Forbes 400 members are classified as self-made, as some might have borrowed money from in-laws or parents, or started businesses with spouses or other relatives, but nevertheless built these fortunes themselves.

Of the 20 newcomers who climbed into the ranks, only four inherited (including Steve Jobs’ widow, Laurene Powell Jobs, who is the richest newcomer with a net worth of $11 billion).

Each of these people’s success has a ripple effect.

www.forbes.com...

Here's the list:
www.forbes.com...

Since I know that 90% of the hypocrites will not even bother to fact-check their BS, here's the top 20 from the list:
Bill Gates
Warren Buffett
Larry Ellison
Charles Koch
David Koch
Christy Walton & family
Jim Walton
Alice Walton
S. Robson Walton
Michael Bloomberg
Jeff Bezos
Sheldon Adelson
Sergey Brin
Larry Page
George Soros
Forrest Mars, Jr.
Jacqueline Mars
John Mars
Steve Ballmer
Paul Allen .

Eliminate all the jobs directly created by these members of the 1%, and all of the people employed by "trickle down" through suppliers, builders, marketers, distributors, salespeople and stores they cater, and you will see whether they are the "sponges" you claim them to be.

The only thing worse than false criticism is williful ignorance of fact.

Face it, if it wasn't for these 1%, our unemployed ranks would swell overnight, and dependence upon taxpayers would multiply exponentially.

But, that's what many of the "critics" want anyway, isn't it?

deny ignorance

jw

Originally posted by Q33323
Eat the rich... Oh, I forgot. They're all skinny.

We're about to put the screw to the rest of the world when we bring manufacturing back to the grand old USA. But... You won't see many people working the "line." Just robot/AI techs.

edit on 4-3-2013 by Q33323 because: Extra x

Be nice with your comments on this subject... I belong to that one percent.

I'll buy this site and ban you...


[size=-3]That was a joke...

Some of you guys are so naive. Yes, there is the very unlikely possibility to get rich from scratch. However, statistically someone who is born rich will become richer and those who are born in poverty will become more poor. I'm probably at the top end of the middleclass. Both my parents were top management in banks, so on my first job (with 20, which is early in my country) i earned about 10k a month right away, teamleader without any qualification in banking - i was a bright mind anyway, but so were others who worked hard to get into that position. Today, a decade later, I earn between 250 to 400 dollar per hour fixed plus bonus (which is about the same or double size). Though most of my time I dont work as employee anymore.
You think that is fair? No, its not. But would redistribution be fair? Probably not aswell. It's a dilemma of capitalism. It is sooo much easier to attract more capital in a position of power or if you already have a lot of capital. If you have no power, you are only under the most unlikely circumstances allowed to compete for CEO position of big companies. Check the family background of todays CEOs. At the least they had influencal friends. True there was a time you could get rich with a bright mind and hard dedicated work - but that was last century. And if your grandpa didnt do something in this respect, then chances are slim you will ever make it. The cake has been distributed.

edit: im no ceo btw. what i do is far more boring.

reply to post by Dragoon01


Our system relies on fluidity at street level, and a constant circulation of cash from the lowest rungs (fast food, gas) to the highest (mortgages). Without that circulation, the system dies.

The old joke about the man from out of town, who stops at a hotel, leaves $100 on the counter, and runs off to inspect his room is apt. The hotel manager grabs the money and runs down to the grocery store to pay his line of credit. The grocer takes his payment, and runs over to pay his water bill. The water company owner takes the $100 and uses it to pay his car note. The car dealer takes the $100 and pays a prostitute who gave him a quickie on credit last Tuesday. She takes the $100 back to the hotel and covers her tab. The original out of towner returns from his inspection, unhappy with the hotels color scheme, snatches his $100 back and leaves. He never spent a dime, but $500 of real debt at street level has been satisfied. This is how our economy actually works. Each dollar does work equivalent to hundreds or thousands of times its face value before percolating back up through the filters and into the pockets of a central banker.

As you can see -- it doesn't matter who gets the money, or what they spend it on (they could buy crack). All that matters is that they spend it, and our economic reactor turns.

Now -- concentrate all of that money into a few hands at the very apex of the economic pyramid and you get what we have today: record Wall Street profits and record unemployment / low economic activity on main street.

As to your bit about the money and the government: The "government" are paid employees of the money. That is why Reagan (and every president after him, regardless of fake political affiliation) appoint Presidents of major Wall Street banks as their treasury Secretary. The wealthy elite buy the democracy they need to maintain control over the fiscal policy of "their" country. The smaller that group becomes, the tighter the controls over the rest of us.

reply to post by Twix404


Well said! Especially about the outsourcing.

It does feel like a massive economic change is coming, I mean this 'awakening' by the public to the actual situation has been building up for so flippin' long now and its finally hitting that critical mass stage and in synch with real life examples manifesting in so many ways now and out in the open as well!! Bloody hell I hope people realise that if this shift is to happen, whether it be successful or not, there is going to be a lot of blood (not necessarily caused by the government or the police but people would gladly do it to themselves when the first economic full crash actually happens), sweat and tears shed. For a long time as well probably before it returns to some acceptable state of normality.

An apparent wise man once said to me "Don't support the revolution unless you are willing to die for the revolution". Guess only time will tell if the situation becomes that extreme or if he was just a drunk lol.

I fully admit I'm petty and vindictive, I hope for very bad things on not just the top 1% but the top 20%. Every single one of them, as none of them are doing anything to fix the issue, instead as a collective they vote to make things worse with the hopes that one day they'll be in the top 1% or top 5% and can really abuse the rules even more than they do.

I'm in another 1%, the bottom 1%. I went to college, got educated, had a fantastic GPA, and have a great work ethic. I work 10-12 hours a day, I don't sit around on facebook, I don't even take a lunch break, and I've never had a vacation in my life, much less part of a day off to visit a doctor. On top of that I walk a few miles to and from work each day, which gives me about a 90 minute commute each way as I don't have a car.

The jobs for people like me, quite simply aren't there. When people say the system works and it's because I'm lazy or uneducated that my income is lower than the typical workers in China (while living in a higher cost of living area) I scoff. Then I hope those people lose everything they own. The entire system is broken.

reply to post by NorEaster


Wow. Everybody's aghast. The rich got all the money. Wonder how that happened? They don't pay taxes. That's how it happens. The rich get rich because the capitalist economy we live in reserves all profits for owners and investors. Labor gets wages, nothing more. Productivity rises, returns go the owners. Labor becomes less important, disposable even. It's what everybody wants. They earned it, it belongs to them. We can't have the government taxing and recovering some of this wealth, now can we? They got it because too many people are fooled by these very people

I think it's hysterical that when shown the reality of capitalism most people say, What??? But when told the only way of reversing and controlling this gross distortion, and eventually the fatal flaw of capitalism, is through taxation and government regulation, they get their backs up and see it as an affront to their personal liberty. The wealthy have done a fine job of controlling our government through propaganda, and those who decry government's proper role of intervention are the unwitting stooges.

This isn't about socialism, or communism, It's about keeping the system balanced so that it works. I don't think it's difficult to see than an economy where the very few control all the wealth and the remainder serve at the pleasure of that wealth is in any way fair or sustainable.

So the next time you here, " The wealthy needs to be taxed more." understand what this really means. Or don't, and watch your piece of the pie get smaller and smaller.

reply to post by NorEaster


Excellent post -- people need to see more like this and quit listening to propaganda delivered by mainstream media.

Understand that the main stream media is owned by that the top 1%. The top 1% also owns most of the politicians.

reply to post by NorEaster
Yes, It seems like something should be done. How does a poor person climb the ladder. It seems like the lower rungs are all broke in this here ladder. For instance, years ago a person could earn some interest on money that is put into the bank as savings. Now, what is the return on a savings account? Almost nothing, am I close?
I went to college, but I am working for minimum wage. I believe the minimum wage is for entry level workers, and we need a new minimum wage based on years of experience. Oh, well, my bad .... then you are "old". But thats why the clerk at Walmart can't figure out what change to give you when the cash machine breaks. She's there because she is "young" and "entry level" and there is that CEO who needs that extra money. At the Dollar General Store I stood in line for 10 minutes behind three people because they can only have the store manager and one employee in the store. I guess the CEO needs to go to MAUI.

With everyone changing jobs so much now, it seems an employer can argue that you are entry level-forever. Always.

Temporary agencies spring up everywhere and skim your wages. Whatever is above minimum is what they get as profit, in many cases.

It seems that the people running things get to screw up at will and are rewarded for it; however, I know of cases where the poor lose unemployment benefits for refusing to return to temporary work with no benefits when there are serious safety problems that are occurring.

And I cannot even imagine how bad people, ignorant really, are getting to be CEOs and government leaders all around the world. Example #1 would be Tepco in Japan. Just lie, and hide, and deny the truth and the government "leaders" just go along with their pony show.

Remember when the Bush administration said that the air was safe to breath in NYC after the twin towers "fell"? Now most of the first responders are dead or sick.

Obama said no radiation would reach the US. Well, I won't eat tuna anymore, and I feel very uncomfortable now that most of the fish in the stores are marked as from China.
Hilary Clinton is agreeing to import Japanese beef. If I could afford to, I would buy a Geiger counter and cruise the fish at my local Kentucky grocer.
Those are the 1% telling us all these lies. Lies for Money. Sounds like a TV game show title. And the bottom 50 % are too busy struggling raising their children to educate themselves, or spend the time to think about it.

reply to post by NorEaster


"So, what do you say about all of us lazy whiners getting together and refusing to buy anything from one company after another - targeting each one, one at a time, until it dies completely? Then we move on to the next company and kill that "winner" off. Just to show you winners that us lazy losers are actually the ones with the power as long as we gather together and exert that power.

I could easily see the largest international conglomerate on Earth collapsing within 6 months if the largest and riuchest market on Earth (that'd be us lazy losers) simply decided to buy brand B instead of their brand A - as well as the products of every one of their subsidiaries and holding and investment companies (not hard to establish and publish online to make sure everyone is onboard and following the plan). Hell, imagine the fear in the eyes of the winners. It'd be worth it just to watch one of these monsters die (along with the millions of Chinese jobs that'd evaporate with them) and to feel that sudden realization that we lazy losers really do have an impact on how things happen in this world.

Then, it'd really be fun to take that aim and direct it at the next "winner" for termination. Or maybe for negotiation. Like bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US? Or laying off the lobbying against us in Congress? Or any of a bunch of things that most of these enormous companies do against the rest of us?

It'd really be fun if they agreed and then got caught breaking that agreement. The death would be epic.Legendary even. Wonderful TV news drama as the stock value spirals and the Wall St. vultures descend upon it. The 2nd collapse wouldn't take anywhere near as long as the first corporation kill. The big money would run as fast as possible at the first sign of the laser dot on that company's lapel.



I love the 21st century. There's so much possible that was never possible before."

Yep, that's why you're a loser (in the literal sense, not name calling, simply using the opposite of what you address successful people as) You are focused on destruction. Your entire post is 100% destruction, not building anything other than an army to destroy.

Satans minions, you jealous socialists are.

I am sure if you could make a chart of how we are represented in govt, it would match this chart perfectly.

Take everything, divide it up equally, and in one years time you'll be right where you started. The fools squander their "fair share" the smart people pool their resources and provide goods and services to increase their lot.

Remove the incentive to increase one's own lot and you get no progress. It's simple. you're opinion on whether it should work this way or not is invalid. IT IS THE WAY IT WORKS. Just because you don't like gravity doesn't mean there is a damn thing you can do to change it. Get over it and start trying to get a leg up.

And again to the lazy whiners: yes you can work your way up.

a thousand NEW millionaires are made each day. Why aren't you one of them? Simple, you would rather bitch and moan that you're not rich while others are. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, not the system, YOU. That's not to say the system is anywhere near perfect, but that it's not as flawed as you want it to be to satisfy your ego.

www.businessinsider.com...

Originally posted by tymothymichel
reply to post by bigwig22

 

I don't have a problem with folks keeping what they earned, but back in my day, we had this thing called "an honest profit" which meant you didn't scrape your customers for every last nickle...I don't see that anymore...some of these monkeys will burn the folks for every last cent. Greed is a sorry thing.

That, i must agree with!

Peace out