Calling all Anti-America Threaders~

reply to post by sulaw


Your enemies won't tell you the truth about yourself but your friends will.

I welcome outside criticism from other countries and our allies. Heck, our own media surely isn't doing their job to keep us informed about our governments wrong doings. The only time we hear anything is when the government is caught with their pants down. Don't wrap yourself up too tightly with the American flag, our country has faults and skeletons in the closet too. If our own media won't tell us the truth, we have to listen to the reactions and complaints from people outside of the U.S.. People who can't take constructive criticism to better themselves, never change, lose friends and create enemies.

The OP embarrasses me as an American. Your type (plus our foreign policy) is the reason why the world hates us. You're literally a living stereotype if you aren't trolling. I would tell you to please leave the country but that would be un-Amurican.



^The OPs type.

As an ex-pat, I often find myself seeign thigns in other countries that make me reflect upon my own and wonder if we couldn't adopt some ideas from elsewhere, and adapt them to our systems. I sometimes post these ideas in threads, with the intent of brainstorming with my fellow americans on what we could do to improve our nation.
Because I care. Because I tend to think nobody and nothing is perfect and life is a process of ever evolving growth, as individuals and as collectives.

But very often I run into the offensive Americans that take that as an insult (what? We're not perfect??) and go straight into ridiculous and ignorant claims about other countries (like every country other than the US is a dictatorship, or Communist, and all other peoples in the world are oppressed and living in poverty).

Like.. well like you did, OP.

It's so embarrassing. There may be very few of these types of individuals, but they are the most outspoken and visible, and give the rest of the world such a bad idea of who we are.
THEN they wonder why they are criticized.

Originally posted by sulaw
Though this is not a political issue however it's still calling the kettle black~

Your boring rhetoric of the condition of the United States and how we should conduct our business is well worn out. Factually, what makes your country so great? Please enlighten this American? .

Sulaw the OP is just so full of narcissistic drivel - I do not know where to begin.

To assume as a US citizen that you speak on behalf of your nation is ridiculous and arrogant.

When i speak i speak as myself not as a representative of the country's of which i am a citizen [ Australia / Britain].

I would have had to have been appointed as an ambassador to speak on behalf of the country in which I reside.

If someone or people criticise the US of A, they may or they may not have a valid point, but the bottom line is they are not criticising YOU, but the organisation that makes up the country. Probably something you have little or no control over and cannot claim reflected glory from past achievements or guilt for past mistakes of said country.

Anyone is entitled to criticise the United States if they want to. Stop being so thin skinned and inward looking.

I'm an American and I think America should mind it's own damn business and stop playing world police while we sit in double-digit unemployment and 16 trillion dollars in debt.

I understand where you are coming from, but just to fill you in, the vast majority of those complaining about the US and their/its current state of affairs are actually citizens of the United States. Born and raised most likely. I think you and I differ on our interpretations of the complaints against the US however, and here is why: I do not think people complain about what is happening in this country because they feel things are so much better anywhere else, but rather because they do not wish to see the US turn in to what some of those other countries are.

I would be fooling myself if I thought that the majority complained about the US for the reason I described above, because most simply are not that mature, and are not thinking in such broad terms. I would argue that the majority are short-sighted and are more apt to complain when something directly affects their lives, OR directly conflicts with their belief system, whether those beliefs are well-founded or not. So I do agree with the idea that some of the naysayers need to be verbally slapped around a bit, although you did not say that, haha, or at least educated on their ignorance. The majority of the world, population-wise and area-wise, truly is worse than the US, or any modern "democratic" country for that matter.

But, I do not think this means no one who lives in one of these countries should not complain. We have reached this current state and level of civility over time, and we would not have reached this point had everyone not complained. Complaining, in my mind, is done whenever there is a problem. Obviously, as I mentioned earlier, some people are going to complain over things that are selfishly motivated, and often times that is not what we need to listen to. The complains we need to listen to are from those who actually have the bigger picture in mind, those who see where folly will lead, and the damage that may potentially be done to this country's future, which affects all its inhabitants.

So we should probably analyze the motives of a person who "bashes" the US, or complains about anything related to the US, before we judge what they are saying. This is the rational thing to do. As an example, I constantly complain about 2nd amendment violations, police brutality, et cetera, not because I am concerned about how this will affect me personally, but how will affect our country and its future. I have laid out my arguments on this topic in a logical, concise manner in various threads found across ATS, and hopefully my words in those posts make my motivation apparent.

But instead of everyone replying to those specific arguments I make on the issue, they completely ignore them, and instead start bashing my ideas simply because they do not agree with them. These are the same people who likely complain all the time about things that affect them personally, while ignoring all the other issues and aspects of issues that are important, but do not affect them. Then there are those who are not affected personally, but who "feel" they are personally involved because they are emotionally involved. They have beliefs that are ingrained in bias instead of logic, and likely grew up with those ideas. You will find most of these people in the democrats versus republicans arguments, and you will see that they mostly argue from a position of bias, not logic.

The only reason I am offering these examples is to both show that we should analyze motive whenever someone is complaining, as well as attempt to detect whether they are presenting some logical argument or issue, or simply complaining from a position of bias. I was just pondering how many racists fit into this latter category, although often times their bias is disguised in the form of logical arguments. And of course personal bias can be presented through logical arguments, but often times the writer's zeal and context clues give them away. Anyway, to sum up my main point, I think all of us should analyze any complaints in the following manner: first determine where the plaintiff is coming from, and if this person is found to be biased and not interested in true change, then just ignore them.

If they are sincere and seem to be presenting a complaint for the sake of changing things for the better, then we must give their complaints some deep thought, while at the same time ensuring that our personal biases do not affect our perception of the plaintiff's claims, ensuring that we give them a fair analysis and response. Some will say this post was a waste of time, but I disagree. I have found that attempting to truly understand where another person is coming from is key to not only to changing things for the better, but also to compromise, which is usually more apt to occur than outright change, at least in my opinion.

Originally posted by daveinats
I am a retired, decorated American soldier. I swore to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I would bear true faith and allegiance to the them...

In my opinion the Democratic party and supporters of the current administration constitute domestic enemies of the United States of America...

My God strike down the enemies of the USA...

Yea, it's just the Dems and the CURRENT administration. OK, ALL of this started in 2008, Man, I drink too much because I remember history a tad different

As I see it, the problem is not (only) the USA. The problem is capitalism.

Capitalism main function is to get the people to be more self centered, get as many resources for your self, increasing the waste problem, increasing use of earthly resources, instead of helping each other out, it alienates people because they have to make sure they self can survive.

I must admit, I too was a capitalist ones, that was the time when I did see the pain and ecological problems that arises from this kind of ideology.

The truth is, that we as humans and our earth, can't hold up to the increasing demands that has to be made, in order to capitalism to survive.

This is why we'll see so many many poor people, barely living just to survive another day, and then we'll have the ~10% that has enough resources to last them and their grandchildren for ages.

If we don't want to see a grim future, where the rich uses technology as and force and control to make sure the poor and the middle class wont make a revolution. Well, then we have to act very soon, as those of you might have noticed, the technological advanced the rich have is proving to be a major problem for the rest of the humans on planet earth.

Communication and compassion is all that is need to save every country on this planet, regardless of their problems. All our problems can be solved by understanding the pain of others. Think of it as a mirror, do you wish to see yourself in this persons pain and misery, probably not.

"Be the change you wish to see in this world" - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

I shall start off by confessing that I have not read every single post on this thread.
I clearly dont need to because, by the 6th page, its sorely evident that not even an American can agree with an American as to whether the rest of us English speakers outside the confines of the USA are justified or not it some of the anti American sentiment that gets posted here.
I think its fair to say that this forum is utterly American centric in its content and post count which, considering, the sheer number of English speakers throughout the World is pretty amazing.
So why? I think the reasons for that form the central plank as to the Worlds opinion of a Country that is utterly blinkered and bereft of understanding about how the World really works. I certainly dont blame the average American citizen, I have friends who are American and they are as good a friend as you can get BUT they are, by their own admission, quite insular insomuch that being born in a Country so utterly vast and diverse they see that country as THE World.
I think, for a long time, it was a fact that precious few Americans carried passports, precious few left USA airspace and, probably, even fewer wanted to know how the rest of the World worked because it didnt affect them.
I, myself, have been highly critical of American gun policy and have been shouted down " Coz its in da constitution, right?" and, consequently "Nobody messes wiv da constitution, right?"
Now that is something that most non Americans cannot fathom. Sure, we "get" the constitution and we understand its importance but we simply do not understand the reluctance to accept that constitutions, like laws are not neccessarily fit for the puropose hundreds of years after they were drafted. I keep hearing how untouchable the constitution is and i wonder if the American people are somehow less important than convention. " Is the constitution and its content more important than the people it proports to act for?" Only an American can answer that, right?
I think, to generalise, the rest of us ask ourselves "Are tails really supposed to wag dogs?"
Im drawn to parables. The idea that in the 1980s you STILL were manufacturing cars ( luxury ones at that) with bloody strip speedometers when the rest of the world had abandoned them in the 1970s, seemed to suggest that you were hopelessly behind the times and unwilling to grasp the fact that the rest of the World was living "today" while you were still stuck in "yesterday".
Behind the times, unwieldy, out of date, bullish, never listens, doesnt understand, doesnt care, all words that have been and are still being used to describe a huge country that has dominated militarily and economically for generations but is now, slowly but surely losing grip on both.
Yes, "our" countries have issues, I certainly dont go around singing Rule Britannia but, then again, I see our short comings, as an Englishman I dont have much to boast about really.
We are all in the same boat, trying to keep our heads above the fecal matter that we have to swim through to survive.
I dont hate America, not at all actually.
The problem is, if you keep putting your heads above the parapet, you must be prepared to get shot at.
Thats life.

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by sulaw

 

S&F O/P well said. IMO the reason for their hate is in this quote.

" God forbid you be an ugly girl, course too pretty is also your doom, cause everyone harbors a secret hatred for the prettiest girl in the room."

Interesting quote, but not very accurate as a description of the USA. I think, as optimus said, comparing the USA to a bully would be far more relevant than something of beauty.

This is a pretty interesting video explaining how the wealth is shared in the US, this is quite frightening.

mashable.com...

reply to post by sulaw


You confuse the government with the people. Don´t know what to say more.

reply to post by sulaw
Jingoistic hooey aside, I think the thread would be better informed by stating what's great about Americans as a people. I like visiting the States, as I have said many times on this site. I (as a WASP, though a long-hair ) find the people to be open, friendly and generous to visitors. The only time I have seen anyone out side of military or cops carrying a gun was at a shooting range I visited. I love passing through the little towns around July 4, seeing them all done up in red, white and blue bunting. They are proud of their considerable achievements as a nation and can't understand why people hate them. I have visited more of the country than most of its citizens have, and I think I'm entitled to an opinion.

I like Americans a lot, though their government leaves something to be desired. Same as ours.

One of the worst aspects of this site are threads like this. I wonder is there any hope that one day such threads may cease?

It makes me so sad that this orchestrated divisive paradigm only ever serves TPTB. We are all victims of them and their brainwashing. Yet so many can not see it for the bread and circus that it is.

I love Americans. They along with the peoples of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia are my closest brothers. It is the governments and the parasitical elites that I hate. Please refrain from doing their bidding.

Originally posted by sulaw
reply to post by ANOK

 

It's the way it's posted sir, and if they feel the need to interperate our laws, then it's my right to interperate there words any way I see fit. No? Star for any military man in this thread~btw

Unfortunately this post reveals much. It talks of your laws and others' words, yet displayed in this post is such a dismal intellect, lacking in education, knowledge, and critical thinking.

What does interperate mean? Not a typo, you posted it twice and this was the thrust of the post. It demonstrates a lack of skills of comprehension.

Oh and 'there' is a place not a person or peoples.

Please stop this divisive nonsense or it will no doubt eventually lead to you being banned again, and having to come up with yet another username when you re-register.

A better education and a search for wisdom would kill such erroneous thinking. For your lack of both I cannot feel anything but sympathy, pity and sadness. I sincerely hope that one day you will awaken from this stupor.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by sulaw

 

Your enemies won't tell you the truth about yourself but your friends will.

I welcome outside criticism from other countries and our allies. Heck, our own media surely isn't doing their job to keep us informed about our governments wrong doings. The only time we hear anything is when the government is caught with their pants down. Don't wrap yourself up too tightly with the American flag, our country has faults and skeletons in the closet too. If our own media won't tell us the truth, we have to listen to the reactions and complaints from people outside of the U.S.. People who can't take constructive criticism to better themselves, never change, lose friends and create enemies.

This!

You have restored my faith that was momentarily shaken by the OP. It is heartening to see that every time an OP like this comes along it gets less flags and stars than the previous one. I'm thankful that more and more of the English speaking world is waking up to what the third world has always known and never forgotten.

An objective overview of the great amount of influence your country has on the rest of the world makes your claim a bit of an contradiction.

You see we watch your movies, eat your fast food, mimic your reality shows,share our resources with your country, create or import the same processed food, and act out much of what one could regard as your American culture.

So for me to say I dislike/hate your country would intern mean that I am projecting that emotion towards my very own country, which quite sadly I am. The fact of the matter is strangely and ironically enough, WE ALL ARE LIVING IN AMERICA

Fret not though, as my hate is not projected towards your people alone but towards everyone who seems to be okay with being wasteful, boastful, arrogant, naive, contradictory, bias, prejudice, ignorant, slaves of a system that deprives freedom of knowledge and truth for a materialistic and superficial existence of fake relationships and hidden agendas.

Sadly that is an epidemic that goes beyond the borders of any country let alone yours. Maybe we should project our anger toward a much more sinister epidemic that has been feeding off of this planet like a cancerous tumor, CAPITALISM. If we as humanity can master the art of flight and beyond in less than a hundred years then Im sure our creative abilities can come up with a new model of economics that gives everybody some form of fair chance to thrive thoroughly. Unfortunately there is something very sinister retarding such endeavors, If only I could put my finger on as to what it could be

Good things

Natural Born or otherwise does not make you an American in my book. My Book, not your book, not your definition and certainly not the Government's Definition of an American and while in "My Book" I give the descendants of the American Indians a free ride because this country was stolen from their people, when Hell Hits the Fan, the only people I am going to view as "Fellow Americans" are those who show a serious respect for and willingness to stand up for the principal set for in our Constitution, the rest might as well be Mossad Enemy Agents or Maoist Soldiers.

I see I should add that while there are a lot of jackasses running around with our flag stuck up their rear ends and make a lot of noise shouting and showing off their 2nd Amendment rights, these trash are an embarrassment and our problem which we will have to deal with later when the smoke clears. As it stands, we will need them for Cannon Fodder.

reply to post by merkins


Not all Americans blindly believe what our government tells us. They have been caught in lies before. I consider people of the world as mutual friends. I believe we all want to live in peace, and get along together. All the different nationalities of the world have brought something of value to the human race. I truly believe if governments and religion were kept out of the equation, this world would be a much peaceful and loving place. I bid you peace my friend.