Calling all Anti-America Threaders~

reply to post by ANOK


Nope. In fact -- its the most American thing you can possibly do.

We don't just have the "right" to criticize the government in the US, we have a responsibility to do so.

Lol most people who criitize US americans on here are themselves US americans. This is the ironic thing about this thread.

Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by Malcher

 

Yes it's always been that way, what is your point?

Capitalism concentrates wealth, and America is where it is concentrated at this moment in time.

And that is the problem, mass inequality of wealth is what allows a nation to dominate others.

What creates that inequality? Capitalism, the means of production concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. The means to create wealth, the means to produce needed resources owned by the few and used to make themselves wealthy at the expense of the rest of us.

My point is that it has historically been much, much worse. In terms of an elite class, in terms of wars, fighting, human sacrifices.

I dont see how wealth is concentrated in America at all. There are millionaires and billionaires all over the world and there are millions of poor people in the U.S. too. I think you are fantasizing.

Humans have been capitalists since they first crawled out of the ocean, anything else is a ruse, a fantasy that you bought.

For that matter the simple act of choosing a mate is capitalistic in nature so we are never going to get around that. I think you are chasing your tail.

reply to post by rockymcgilicutty


I agree Great Britians history is not any better. Both are warring nations. However it is the US that is holding the gauntlet atm. Not GB...

Originally posted by sulaw

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
This will get moved to the rant section in 3...2....1... I am an American who served honorably for 13 years in the military and did 6 combat deployments. I tell you that in order to qualify my next statement, which is... I don't blame the rest of the world for hating us. American imperialism has killed millions of innocent people worldwide. It has stolen resources from the people of many nations, and it has bankrupted our country, which in turn has bankrupted every other country. The petrodollar has been the biggest tool of terrorism over the last 40 years. I love America, at least the idea of what America is supposed to be, but we aren't that. Instead we are the world's bully and the rest of the world is getting sick of it, and I don't blame them. Have a nice day

edit* The reason I did 13 years is because it was at that time I came to the realize the truth about how the US military is used, and I wanted no part of it anymore, and so I got out instead of doing another 7 years and retiring.

edit on 1-3-2013 by OptimusSubprime because: (no reason given)

These other countries kill there own very well on a daily basis without our help, and I don't condone what our gov't has done on any level. I will however still defend my right to free speech and tell all the negative posters enough is enough. Guess this isn't getting moved after all and it's contents is justified calling the kettle black as well. Star for you and the other Military man in thread, as I support our troops not our gov't and what this country used to stand for. Still it's the country I reside in, and these are the feelings these posters bring out. Sorry if it sounds like a Rant but it's far from it. Have a beautiful day indeed sir~

You have nothing to apologize for, and I will defend your right to free speech to the death.

reply to post by purplemer


Along with G.B

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by purplemer

 

Along with G.B

Soz could not resist.. Back on topic though...

I am the first to admit the UK was and is a warring nation. The UK is not calling the shots her empire days are over. However I am a little confused.why do you keep referring to the UK in a thread about American bashing

Originally posted by purplemer

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by purplemer

 

Along with G.B

Soz could not resist.. Back on topic though...

I am the first to admit the UK was and is a warring nation. The UK is not calling the shots her empire days are over. However I am a little confused.why do you keep referring to the UK in a thread about American bashing

Good one

Actually I got side tracked also. The thread was asking the question of what should be done. By the U.S to improve itself. It turned into a bashing thread.

BTW I 'm thinking of changing my avatar.






What do you think?

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by sulaw

 

S&F O/P well said. IMO the reason for their hate is in this quote.

" God forbid you be an ugly girl, course too pretty is also your doom, cause everyone harbors a secret hatred for the prettiest girl in the room."

*startled professor Farnsworth noise*

"Ehhyouuwhaa??"



Stop talking, I'm missing my picture show.

Denmark here! (The country)

Do you really need to ask us-criticizers what is wrong with your country/government?

I think you already know the answer to that question. I guess the problem is for Americans to recognize the problem as a whole, and then do something about it, before the entire world is dragged into one hell of a turmoil.

Several of my friends would most likely be alive today, if it wasn't for your government, which with deceptive means lured us into joining the war in Afghanistan and the BOGUS war in Iraq. There wasn't much choice back then because "either we were with the USA, or we were with the terrorists!", remember?

And since we all know what happens to a country under US sanctions, we had to choose the terrorists.. erhm, i mean the US Government.

Here is a clue; First problem is your money system... it has to go. Completely! Can you accept that, then there might be a small chance.

Personally, i think it's too late. Nature will wipe the slate clean and start over. Al thou, i still hope...

reply to post by Honor93


I dont see the point of posting a quote stating the english crown nover relinquished control over american commer ce. Lol who cares if they gave us permission, or even acknowledged what happened, the fact of the matter is we never asked permission, we took this land and our freedom from them, there was nothing they coukd do to stop it.

You act like I have to give permission to the guy that robs me to be abke to steal and hock my stuff.



To the op, I have a lot of answers to some of this stuff, and honest souktions that I think woukd go a long way to fixing quite a lot, I will give you several examples, and a brief descriotion of each, and how they woukd help.

The minimum wage should be repealed, forever, as it is not fair at all to require a mom and pop business to pay the same as walmart mcdonalds etc...

Instead mnimum wages should be comoany specific, more to the point, they shoukd be linked to comoany profits, as walmart makes hundreds of billions in profits, by forcing their workers into welfare, meaning the people are simply cutting a check to the richest corp on earth for billions dexaue they are too cheap to pay their employees enough.

Make it illegal for any company that has overten million a year in profits not to comply, upto and inckuding the IRS seizing and redistributing assets of companies that dont comply. The rule should be your pay roll should be equal to or greater than half your profits, as the ones making all that money for you (the workers ) deserve a fair shake.

Now before some of you try to claim walmart employess dont deserve that much pay, I disagree, and so does the market and reality. As they are making the money for walmart, obviously your mistaken, as their work is worth hundreds of billions a year to the company. They are obviousky worth a lot.

No politician shiuld be paid more than the average worker in their district, if your in a district where the average is $12, 000 a year, thats your salary. No more voting yourself a pay raise, and this shoukd also help with the wrong peopoe getting into it for the wrong reasons.

No more special intersts or lobbying, period. If you take a penny from anyone when serving the people in public office it shoild be an automatic mandatory minimum of 10 years without the possibility of early release. Forfeture of at least half your pubkic holdings, and no sirt of pubkic assistance at all ever for the rest of your life, pelk grants welfare etc... nothing.

No war should be possible without congess declaring war, period, full stop. I mean it too, literally no war, of any type, not one single boot on the ground anywhere for any reason without congressional approval, as the office of president has already proven his powers to send limited amounts of troops without congressional approval has been used and abused to often for too long, for too many frivolous reasons.

Our job isnt paying others bills when we are going bankrupt, we should cut off all foreign aid to all countries for good, I mean all, without exception. The people bmp of africa starving isnt our problem, if they woild have 35 kids a family there woikdnt be to many mouths to feed, as it is onky that they have more people than the land can sustain, so let em figure it out, we didnt cause the problem, so we are not gonna be able to fix it either onky they can come up with somtujng that is going to work for them.

Cut iur navy into 7 pieces and use 6 of them for scrap metal ( budget problem solved, and that wasnt even trying) as at present our navy is by far the largest in the world, but do you understand what that means? Yes it is the largest, but my god... if you take the next 17 largest navies in the world and add them together, ours is only slightly larger. WHAT? Yes I said ours is slightly larger than then next 17 largest combined. Absolutely ridiculous waste of rescources.

Use several of our now decommissioned nuclear carriers for other more profitable means. How much does the worlds largest freighter ship cost to ooerate just in fuel? Hhmmm we have these giant ships, thT are faster than just about anything that floats of any size, that doesnt require standard fuel, in fact, it can run at full speed for 15 years before it is on half a tank. Woukd make one hell of a cargo carrier, if is big enough, it is faster than any other container ship on the planet by far, and it doesnt drink fuel. Great way for the .gov to finance itself, so the tax payers arent on the hook so much.

Close every single base over seas, period, no exceptions at all. The world hates us so much, let em have what they want, stop providing securit for all these countries at our own cost. I bet money in less than a year they would beg us back into most places, unfortunately, for them, we wont be going back.

End all funding and troop deoyments to the UN.

Just for staters, I could go on.

reply to post by kloejen


Unfortunately I remeber all to well, it was absolutely disgusting. Like everyone that doesnt sign on to your stuoid petty little war against a weak mid east country needs all that. This is like a senior in high school getting the entire football team to help him beat up a kindergartener.

Not to mention the either your with us or your avainst us idiocy, absokutes are for absolute A-holes of the first order.

I woikd like to take this opportunity to apologize to yoj and your peaceful nation for what suffering we have inflicted on you and yours, it was....... dumb?..... retarded?.........insane?........I just dont think english has a derogatory word or slander or even a curse in its syntax to describe the way many of us feel about this. If we AmericNs are dumb enough to do this kind of stuff, we shoukd drag others into lunacy with us, it is wrong, once again I offer my sincerest apologies, my your friends find rest in the next life, and may their loved ones find peace in this one.

Originally posted by kloejen
Denmark here! (The country)

Several of my friends would most likely be alive today, if it wasn't for your government, which with deceptive means lured us into joining the war in Afghanistan and the BOGUS war in Iraq. There wasn't much choice back then because "either we were with the USA, or we were with the terrorists!", remember?

And since we all know what happens to a country under US sanctions, we had to choose the terrorists.. erhm, i mean the US Government.

Pretty pathetic to claim that the Danish people and Government were "lured". Don't you have any independent thought processes ?

If the US government threatened sanctions against Denmark lets see some evidence of it please.

reply to post by inverslyproportional

I dont see the point of posting a quote stating the english crown nover relinquished control over american commer ce.

'nuf said

when or if you choose to understand how we got here, then maybe you could begin to devise a way out, until then, enjoy. and no, i don't 'act'.

we took this land and our freedom from them

ok, you keep thinkin' it and see how far that gets ya

repeal minimum wage ?? why ?
places like WalMart used to offer 'profit-sharing' options, then, mgt got greedy
today, we can see just how well that worked out for WM, eh ?

what's worse, the employees of WM were/are required to pay into a retirement plan in order to get anything in return ... there went their overall morale and it sure shows these days.

illegal profits ??
do you mean like those they shuffle off-shore now ?

unions have already proven there is no such thing as equal work for equal pay ... so that's a worn-out argument.

totally agree with tying a politician's payroll to their district, only i would restrict it to 2/3 the regional average ... if they want more, then they can improve their regional average and EARN it.

ppl exercising their right to protest is a form of 'lobbying' so no, restrictions on voicing our opinions is a deal-breaker.

No war is possible without Congress declaring one ... didn't you get the memo ??
we're winning hearts and minds, not fighting a war.
(/sarcasm)
no seriously, i agree with you but 'technically' we're not at war with any country.
so, bring our boys/girls home where they belong and no further deployments without Congressional declaration of war ... i could support that

i even agree with some of your other suggestions, however, so long as we are UN members, the rest is pointless.
so long as the CFR dictates foreign policy, what Americans want doesn't matter and that's the point.

remember that Treaty i mentioned ?? it DOES matter ... take a few moments and read it over then tell me how that indicates the US enjoyed a wartime victory.
need a link ??

please don't get me wrong, i believe we can change the status quo but not by changing a bunch of things that really don't matter in the long run.

Over the years I've noticed an increasing tendency amongst many Americans here on ATS to view any criticism of the US at all, especially from non-Americans, as a carte blanche dislike of all things American and to label such posters as anti-American.

Sure, there's aspects of American society, it's culture and it's foreign policy that I don't like and disagree with.
And there seems to be many who resent me and other's for commenting on such.
Yet many of those self-same people feel free to enter any discussion on non-US matters and insult, ridicule and post jingoistic rhetoric and believe those double standards are ok because they are American and they are expressing their god given right to free speech.
Well guess what - free speech is a right for all of us regardless of nationality or viewpoint.

I am not anti-American per se.
There are many great things and people that have come from the USA - there are a few on here who I have enormous respect for even if I don't agree with them on everything.
And despite some of the things that have been done the world over in it's name I genuinely believe the world is a far better and safer place due to the role the USA has played in world affairs and for that I personally am grateful.

But I sure as hell am not going to stop criticising it when I see fit - especially on an international site which promotes discussion on a wide variety of at times contentious issues.

It always startles me when people react to constructive criticism, and suggestions that might help improve a situation, with ridicule, defensiveness, and anger. It strikes me as somewhat strange that, especially here, where free speech and contemplative, constructive debate and discussion are promoted, there are such negative reactions, and such enormous misunderstandings occuring between members.

Allow me to elucidate. I am aware, from various difficult phases in the orbit of my life, that being objective when one is in crisis, can be extremely difficult. Sometimes one can be so embuggered by events, that seeing a way through them, or even through the next twenty four hours, is like trying to see through sea fog. At times such as these, it is helpful to gather about ones self, persons of intellect and discretion, of sound heart, and quick mind, in order to facilitate the reciept of good advice, and moral support from outside the scenario which causes the issue.

Sometimes that advice, that moral support, comes in the form of a stern talking to from those who have assembled, who have seen a glaring inadequacy in ones own reasoning, or have identified a considerable lack of will on ones own part, to admit that one knows what ails, but lacks the mettle to tackle the issue with the gusto and vim required to do the job. Sometimes, to put it bluntly, one requires a firm boot to the fundament in order to get one to do, what one ought to be doing.

The same thinking can be applied on both the personal level, and the wider national level. I do not honestly believe that there is a single resident of the USA who is COMPLETELY ignorant of the troubles facing the country, and there are probably many who can see the way forward, but lack either the gumption or the connections to see change wrought were it would do most good. There are others still who are not ignorant of the situation, because they are part of the problem, and very happy with circumstances, thank you very much, and wouldnt change them for the world. The same can be said of my own nation.

In fact, you would be suprised at how often, in pointing out a morally defunct action performed by the U.S. I am by extention pointing out a deficiency in my own country as well. However, I do not shy away from the log in the eye of my nation, in order to gesticulate wildly in the specks in the eyes of others. I am more than aware of the issues facing my own nation, and seek where possible to counteract them, within my admittedly microcosmic sphere of influence. I can only speak for myself at this point, but you will never see me run off at the mouth about the USA, without acknowledging similar issues in my own country. Bearing in mind how much of our history, old and new, is intertwined, it is easy to see how often this happens.

Other posters have alluded to my next point, but I must make it anyway. Questioning the policies of the US government, in its internal politics and its foreign affairs, is NOT an attack on the country as a whole, its people, or its core values. Being angry at things the United States government (which by current indications does not speak for very many of its people these days) does and says, and the effects these things have on the world at large, is not an attack on the USA as a whole. It is an expression of fustration, which very often echos thoughts and feelings held within the borders of the US itself! Many of the posters on ATS are from the US, and they are JUST as vocal against thier own government, and the policies which cause trouble for the citizens of the US and the world at large, as anyone from outside the US would be.

I know my country has a history of terrible wrong doing down the ages. I know that some of its policies negatively effect other nations, result in death and destruction being visited on people who very often have no defense against it, some of whom have done absolutely NOTHING to deserve the fate by fire, that they recieve. I know that, and accept it. But I love my country. Loving a thing, must never blind you to its failings. It must never make you less able to accept reality, to militate against whatever toxic agenda blights it. If you love your country, then you must take in your stride its many warts, just as I have done with mine, as things on which one must work. One cannot love a thing, if one is prepared to allow it to rot. Love requires the ability to see fault where it lies, and deal with it.

If anything, by that example, THIS is an Anti America thread.

reply to post by sulaw


I admire your patriotism.

But, with blind patriotism comes something of a lack of understanding. You see - the USA is a country in the world. The world is not the USA

And the thing is this - the US is the biggest player on the block, in the same way the UK has been in the past. That means that you are going to get criticism.

There is a saying that "you reap what you sow" - go out there an look on the internet, and you'll find an awful lot of Americans crapping all over the rest of the world with some kind of ersatz superiority complex. In fact, the US practically invented the genre. Its rife on ATS now, whenever another country is mentioned, and anywhere you visit on the web its tainted by it.

So I have a question for you - why do a large number of Americans complain about this, and yet have no problem with territorial pissing when it comes to criticising and judging other countries?

reply to post by sulaw

I will however still defend my right to free speech and tell all the negative posters enough is enough.

I had to pick myself off the floor when I read this (it was laughter that put me there). You defend your right to free speech but want anyone from outside the US who criticises your country to stfu??? You don’t see the hypocrisy in your statement? You think the right to free speech is exclusively one for the US citizen? You need to get out more. The right to free speech gives you the right to say whatever the hell you want and it gives me the right to call it bs.

You think the US is the ONLY country in the world with immigration? Lol Really? People migrate all over the world every single day but you may never realize that. Last time I was in the US I made a point of buying quality newspapers and watching the news to try to understand how the US sees the rest of the world. What did I discover? Simply that your media does its level best to hide the rest of the world from you....there’s a reason for that. If it didn't do that you would have discovered long ago that many nations on this little planet, who have standards of living for its citizens miles ahead of your own, have real issues with the imperialist tendencies of your country.

And now we have the internet and you discover that not everyone on the planet sees your country as a land of milk and honey and you don’t like it. Boo hoo.

My ex was from the US and informed me that if the majority of US citizens bothered to get a passport and travel the globe they would be absolutely furious when they realised the propaganda and lies they had been spoon fed their whole lives. Lies like you are the land of the free (Jesus! You can’t even cross the road without a green light telling you that you’re allowed to). Lies like your standard of living is higher than everyone else and your lifestyle is the envy of the world. He loved working in Europe because he had.....wait for it....employment rights.....and 6 weeks paid holiday (plus bank holidays) annually. He worked to live here he didn't have to live to work.

In the meantime you guys have allowed your country to become a fascist state (government by corporation – maybe corporatism is a better description – but fascism is still accurate). A state that needs to have a military base in almost every country on the planet – because without that self imposed ‘policeman of the world’ role – the unemployment in your country would be eye watering.

‘To see yourself as others see you’ is a blessing – not a curse.

reply to post by sulaw


Is this for people labelled Anti-American for being critical of the US government or for people actually Anti-American? I'm not sure that you have actually made a difference between the two here. Whoops! Are you guilty of lumping people into one category? What makes you any better?

Tell me why, if we are so bad that we still have immigrants coming in by the 1000's every day because YOUR COUNTRY is a litteral dictatorship and can't provide it's citizens with the means to be healthy/happy/free? Doesn't matter the form of the listed it's still present in the US.

According to the MSM/US government, Iran is the new bad guy, but guess what? People also immigrate there.

I can understand your hatred to the US.... I would hate us too, if I made asanine assumptions about another country.

That is why people view Americans the way they do, they don't know much/aren't taught much about other countries, therefore all you have to go on is asinine assumptions.

That is all, go back to your hater comments and continue being the way you are because it's obvious you lack the will to change anything in the simplest of form.

Don't presume to know everyone or how everyone thinks/acts....unless this is for the people that are actually Anti-American and not just questioning the US government...then please disregard my replies as they do not apply to this thread.

Take care,
-A Canadian

reply to post by winofiend


Hello Newman