What is Zionism

reply to post by Redge777


Excellent post Redge. I could not agree with you more, when you strip away all the dressing greed is all you are left with. The majority suffer because the minority want more.

Originally posted by Zenskeptical
The jews did NOT deserve their own land. How dare we go in and take someone elses land from them just to fufill some sort of obligation to the Jewish people.

The thing is, most of the Arabs in Israel came after 1880 as well. And, most of the ones that left, left because there was a war going on. It's a bad situation, and there should be a homeland for them as well, but lets not twist the facts please.

Originally posted by Redge777
.... Some Jews claim to be chosen to rule the world ....

Who claims that? "Chosen," in an Orthodox Jewish context, simply means that God "chose" the Jews to follow all 613 laws of the Torah. Nothing more, nothing less.

reply to post by Transc3ndent


Organized Zionism did not achieve succes until the 19th century but the idea has been around since the exile began.

And yes, Zionism does come from the Talmud and the Torah. Where else did they get the idea that this land belongs to them? Because God said so in the book with the naked people in the magic garden who were tricked by the talking snake?

And yes, the conflict with the Palestinians is based on religion. The Palestinians are not Jewish. If they were there would be no conflict.

And I don't understand how you missed by far the largest group of Zionists.

CHRISTIAN ZIONISTS FAR OUTNUMBER JEWISH ZIONISTS

But don't think that they are real friends of Israel. Sure, they support the nation and wars in her name. But what they hope for is world war, death of the majority of Jews and the entire world converting to Christianity.

Of course the Christian Zionists will be beamed up in the rapture before TSHTF so they won't have to suffer through it all.

Christian Armaggedonists I call them. And Zionist Quislings!

Originally posted by JustMe74

The thing is, most of the Arabs in Israel came after 1880 as well. And, most of the ones that left, left because there was a war going on. It's a bad situation, and there should be a homeland for them as well, but lets not twist the facts please.

That is an outright lie. Have you even looked at the census figures from the ottoman period? I bet not. Otherwise you wouldn't say something so wrong.

Did the land just rise up out of the sea with Jews already living there?

www.mideastweb.org...

The land that became Palestine and later part of which became Israel was more densely populated than America at the time. The population growth since has been normal except for the Jewish population. But the rapid growth of Jews is due to mass immigration not fertility.

Most of the Arabs were already there. ALL of the Ashkenazi Jews came from Russia, America or Europe. The Sephardic Jews were already there but they were only a small significant minority until after the 1948 war.

Even then the majority only came by forcing more than a half million people from their lands and refusing to allow them to return despite the UN resolution calling for this.

Originally posted by Malichai
That is an outright lie. Have you even looked at the census figures from the ottoman period? I bet not. Otherwise you wouldn't say something so wrong.

Your link supports what I said... that there was both Arab and Jewish immigration to the area from the period of 1880 - 1948. Exact numbers are hard to come by, since the Ottoman Empire didn't keep very good records... however, there are plenty of descriptions of the region prior to 1880 that describe it as basically a wasteland. That's not to suggest that there weren't people living there, I never said that.

Originally posted by Malichai
Most of the Arabs were already there. ALL of the Ashkenazi Jews came from Russia, America or Europe. The Sephardic Jews were already there but they were only a small significant minority until after the 1948 war.

According to the link you provided, you have no way of knowing that.

Originally posted by Malichai
Even then the majority only came by forcing more than a half million people from their lands and refusing to allow them to return despite the UN resolution calling for this.

The vast majority of the people left on their own, they weren't "forced." There was a war going on, and there were refugees, which happens in every war.

There was no such thing as a Palestinian prior to about 1915 or so. Before the British were in the region, there was no "Palestine" either... the Ottoman Empire had this area divided into several administrative districts.

By the way, a great, well documented link for anyone who would like a different perspective than what has been presented here thus far:
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Originally posted by JustMe74

Your link supports what I said... that there was both Arab and Jewish immigration to the area from the period of 1880 - 1948.

Thats not what you said. This part, "most of the Arabs in Israel came after 1880" is a lie. The Arabs were already there, and the land was more densely populated than America by several times.

Exact numbers are hard to come by, since the Ottoman Empire didn't keep very good records... however, there are plenty of descriptions of the region prior to 1880 that describe it as basically a wasteland. That's not to suggest that there weren't people living there, I never said that.

The descriptions of the area as a wasteland are propaganda. If it was more densely populated than America what does that mean?

Should Americans lose their homeland because the desert areas are not populated?

According to the link you provided, you have no way of knowing that.

www.jerusalemquarterly.org...

The vast majority of the people left on their own, they weren't "forced." There was a war going on, and there were refugees, which happens in every war.

They fled in fear of their lives. After Israel slaughtered several entire villages their intents were known. The reality is that the Zionists of Israel wanted all the Arabs gone.

PROOF: Israel refused to allow the people to return, and stole all of their land with the Absentee Property law.

There was no such thing as a Palestinian prior to about 1915 or so.

So what? There was no such thing as Israel for over 2000 years. I think the people who were already living there hold precedance over Europeans, Russians and Americans whos only link is a common religion and Ethnicity.

Before the recent situation of States in the region NONE of the land was Jewish majority and none was Jewish controled. It was imposed by outsiders against their will.

Before the British were in the region, there was no "Palestine" either... the Ottoman Empire had this area divided into several administrative districts.

So what? They didn't create an Israeli district either. By your rationalization Israel doesn't exist either.

The Palestinian people are those who lived in British Occupied Palestine, and their children. Today some live in Israel, many live in the occupied territories and others spread around the world.

Convenient to ignore the millions dispossed and suffering under the longest living military occupation in the world today.

[edit on 25-9-2007 by Malichai]

reply to post by JustMe74


Very well organized propaganda. But every 'myth' that they attempt to debunk is more than half true. When I first saw this page long ago I laughed for a very long time.

Lets look at just one and see how the propaganda works. They simply say nothing more than what supports their agenda.

Even a leading Arab nationalist believed the return of the Jews to their homeland would help resuscitate the country. According to Sherif Hussein, the guardian of the Islamic Holy Places in Arabia:

"The resources of the country are still virgin soil and will be developed by the Jewish immigrants.".....

He quotes Sherif Hussein as a 'leading Arab nationalist. But the truth is he was little more than a British/French Zionist puppet.

Though the British had supported Hussein from the start of the Arab Revolt and the Hussein-McMahon Correspondence, they elected not to help Hussein repel the Saudi attack, which eventually took Mecca, Medina, and Jeddah. He was then forced to flee to Cyprus. He went to live in Amman, Transjordan, where his son Abdullah was king. After his abdication, his son 'Ali briefly assumed the throne, but then he too had to flee the encroachment of Ibn Saud and his Wahhabi forces. His son Faisal was briefly King of Syria and later King of Iraq.
en.wikipedia.org...

As you can see he was no more than a Quisling for the Zionist Forces paying tribute to Jews in hopes of ruling his own Kingdom.

I could go on and on about the lies and halftruths contained within, but maybe I can find that old post that goes through them all.....

[edit on 25-9-2007 by Malichai]

Originally posted by Roark

Originally posted by Neopheus
Those who quickly jump to the conclusion that the Protocols of the learned elders of zion is nothing but debunked propaganda better grab themselves a copy and have themselves a good read because indeed the international bankers are mainly ashkenazi jews, are in control and pretty much everything written in the Protocols are going down almost perfectly.

Is has already been widely established that the Protocols are a plagiarism. I'm shocked that you claim to have researched it all and still maintain it is anything more than a nasty hoax typical of European anti-Semiticism. I can only conclude that you are somewhat obtuse.

Just because some of its elements are true, doesn't mean that it's all true. That is an atrociously simplistic way of looking at it. So the Jews excel at banking? Wow. That's a huge revelation, given that they've been doing it for hundreds of years longer than the originally anti-usury "Christian races".

Originally posted by Neopheus
The word Ashkenazi is the closest etymological relative to the term Nazi.

All this sentence demonstrates is your desperation to draw ridiculous parallels in order to reach bizarre conclusions.

Originally posted by Neopheus
All this and I am not an anti semite, better think again my friend....

I don't know whether you're an anti-semite, but you're most certainly deluded.

[edit on 25-9-2007 by Roark]

This kind of response is to be expected.
I am not desperate in the least but simply sharing my knowledge on the subject at hand and listening to the thoughts of others so please CEASE AND DESIST with your abusive tone and your ad hom attacks or I will ask the Mod's to assist you.

As to the protocols and my research, I could go back and find the names and dates yet I will give you the quick version, someone wrote something similar and then someone else applied (plagiarized) the work and applied it to french nationalism and then supposedly the zionist produced their own copy, now if that is not a seriously twisted tale I do not know what is.

It can be shown that the Nazi war machine was financed by international bankers, that the middle and lower jewish classes were martyred by their own and that this group went on take over america through the puppet regime known as the Neocons/new conservatives.

Todays UN speech by Iran's president was spot on.

People will attempt to dilute or otherwise water down the past to suit their agenda.

In contest to the question that have been put down here in this thread, I would like to submit this link which report the meeting that the president of Iran had with the group of anti-Zionism and Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss.
www.jpost.com...

what is really going on?
My opinion is that every one is frustrated by the Dark forces and they want to fight back for the good of all.
You should also check on this racist guy Rabbi Mordechai Friedman that compare black people with monkey...you really found it hard to be not faceted by this racist idiot that goes a round and claim they are the choosing people and every body else are just trash.
This is Zionism for you, what ever every one is saying about been just a peaceful movement or a political tendency the fact is that Zionism has the same doctrine at root then Nazi.

Kacou

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Jews have been persecuted mainly because of the non sense of the Talmud. It seems thier elites follow it to the T. The distrubing things the Talmud says are pretty much the reason people have flipped out over the years. Remeber Martin Luther? He once felt it necessary to learn Hebrew so he could read the holy books, and when he read the Talmud, turned 180 into a foaming anti semite. The garbage in the Talmud is worse than the insanity that was Mein Kampf.

I don't remember anything about anti-semitism from Martin Luther but he learnt hebrew, greek and latin so that he could read all of the scriptures in their original, uninterpreted state. He thought that the Catholic church was using the scriptures for their own political ends plus placing themeselves between man and God.

Christians are supposed to be a bit anti-semetic aren't they? The Jews were supposed to be responsible for the death of Christ. I thought that that was a typical source of anti-semetism.

The Jews were supposed to be responsible for the death of Christ. I thought that that was a typical source of anti-semetism.

Sigh... it was the Romans that actually Crucified him (not that he had many fans in the Sanhedrin) - why is is that people always seem to over-look this fact?

Ah the peaceful lovely teachings of Talmud:

Some Teachings of the Jewish Talmud

Where a Jew Should Do Evil



Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

Penalty for Disobeying Rabbis

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Jews Have Superior Legal Status

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Jews May Steal from Non-Jews

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Jews May Lie to Non-Jews

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

Insults Against Blessed Mary

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Gloats over Christ Dying Young

A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the early age at which Jesus died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus) was?--He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three or thirty-four years old."

You know that most of those quotes are fake, right? And, the ones that are not fake are taken heavily out of context... right? Instead of researching the Talmud on white supremacist web sites, why don't you look at the actual books... you can find them at any Jewish Temple or Shul, or the public library of most cities.

Here is a great web site that goes through these tired old quotes put out by white supremacists (and sadly, extremist Muslims):
www.angelfire.com...


[edit on 9/28/2007 by JustMe74]

reply to post by Seraphim_Serpente


People do not overlook that fact. They do not ignore the fact that the Romans would not have killed him were it not for the pressure from the Jewish Court that had already convicted him. Rome simply carried out the sentence.

But then, it was all part of the plan. Anti-Semites might use this as personal justification but real Christians view that as Gods will. Not everything is pretty.

But what Israel is doing in Palestine today is not Gods will.

And please don't forget that there are many Palestinian Christians.

I don't remember anything about anti-semitism from Martin Luther but he learnt hebrew

You don't remember? Or you never heard! The Zionist media has done the best it can to cover up what he said and wrote later in life.

Originally posted by Malichai
I don't remember anything about anti-semitism from Martin Luther but he learnt hebrew

You don't remember? Or you never heard! The Zionist media has done the best it can to cover up what he said and wrote later in life.

The Zionist Media? Oh please... What does a historical issue have to do with "the media" anyway?

Where's the "cover up?" One of MANY sources (not the least of which is any history text on the Reformation):
en.wikipedia.org...

Where's the "cover up?" One of MANY sources (not the least of which is any history text on the Reformation):


Where is the Zionist media talking about his most infamous works?

There are Lutherens who are unaware of its contents....

Originally posted by Malichai
Where's the "cover up?" One of MANY sources (not the least of which is any history text on the Reformation):


Where is the Zionist media talking about his most infamous works?

There are Lutherens who are unaware of its contents....

First of all what is the "Zionist Media?" That's ridiculous, unless you're referring to the Jerusalem Post!

Second of all, since when does the media discuss historical documents from the Reformation or any other period? The media talks about current events. I was a History major in college.... when I studied the Reformation, I learned about Luther's views towards the end of his life.

Where is the "cover up?" You're really reaching for this one.