What is Zionism

Zionism on its face, is a movement to gather the Jews of the world together in Palestine, and reclaim the land they inhabited 2000 years ago.
Their ulterior motives are far more sinister, at least regarding their plans for us Gentiles...

The following is an excerpt of the entire speech, which can be found here

A report from Europe carried the following speech of Rabbi Emmanuel Rabinovich before a special meeting of the Emergency Council of European Rabbis in Budapest, Hungary, January 12, 1952:
The goal for which we have striven so concertedly for three thousand years is at last within our reach, and because its fulfillment is so apparent, it behooves us to increase our efforts and our caution tenfold. I can safely promise you that before ten years have passed, our race will take its rightful place in the world, with every Jew a king and every Gentile a slave (Applause from the gathering). You remember the success of our propaganda campaign during the 1930's, which aroused anti-American passions in Germany at the same time we were arousing anti-German passions in America, a campaign which culminated in the Second World War. A similar propaganda campaign is now being waged intensively throughout the world. A war fever is being worked up in Russia by an incessant anti-American barrage while a nation-wide anti-Communist scare is sweeping America. This campaign is forcing all the smaller nations to choose between the partnership of Russia or an alliance with the United States. Our most pressing problem at the moment is to inflame the lagging militaristic spirit of the Americans. The failure of the Universal Military Training Act was a great setback to our plans, but we are assured that a suitable measure will be rushed through Congress immediately after the 1952 elections. The Russians, as well as the Asiatic peoples, are well under control and offer no objections to war, but we must wait to secure the Americans. This we hope to do with the issue of Anti-Semitism, which worked so well in uniting the Americans against Germany. We are counting heavily on reports of anti-Semitic outrages in Russia to whip up indignation in the United States and produce a front of solidarity against the Soviet power. Simultaneously, to demonstrate to Americans the reality of anti-Semitism, we will advance through new sources large sums of money to outspokenly anti-Semitic elements in America to increase their effectiveness, and we shall stage Anti-Semitic outbreaks in several of their largest cities. This will serve the double purpose of exposing reactionary sectors in America, which then can be silenced, and of welding the United States into a devoted anti-Russian unit."

"The Nations will exhort to tranquility. They will be ready to sacrifice everything for peace, but WE WILL NOT GIVE THEM PEACE until they openly acknowledge our International Super-Government, and with SUBMISSIVENESS." (Zionist Congress at Basle in 1897)

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that -I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio

You can draw your own conclusions about what is truth and what isn't. If you still doubt the influence of Zionists on the United States, consider the accomplishments of the Zionist Organization of America's current President, Morton Klein...

ZOA led the fight against Prof. John Roth's appointment to direct studies at the US Holocaust Museum (he equated Israeli policies to Nazi policies). Roth resigned shortly thereafter. ZOA led the fight against Joe Zogby, a State Dept. Mideast analyst, who had written anti-Israel articles in two weeks, Zogby left the State Department...
After a 3-year campaign, ZOA was responsible for the US Government offering multi-million dollar rewards for the capture of Palestinian Arabs who have murdered dozens of American citizens in Israel and the territories. ZOA initiated the Ashcroft-Salmon Bill and the Koby Mandell Act which would facilitate the capture of these Palestinian Arab killers...
He launched a campaign to correct dozens of anti-Israel errors in D.C. Heath's "The Enduring Vision," the most widely used American high school and college history textbook. Other campaigns by Klein dramatically reduced the number of anti-Israel lectures at Villanova University and at the largest church in the Philadelphia area. The exposure of anti-Israel sermons at this church, where U.S. Senate candidate Lyn Yeakel was VP of the Board, played a major role in helping elect U.S. Senator Arlen Specter in his 1992 campaign. www.zoa.org...

Also see this link: www.jewsnotzionists.org...

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Zionism is nothing more than an Idea that the Jews would suffer much less from antisemitism if they had their own country. Sounds logical to me.

Can't you simply understand that?

As a matter of fact, this country shouldn't necessarily even be in Israel, and if someone of you read some real history (and I know some of you did), and not some racist propaganda like that "Rabbi Rabinovich speech", which is actually known to be fake (and it's quite obvious, look at the amateuristic way it was written: having nothing in common with jewish believes and having words that real Rabbis never even use) - you sould know that in the First Zionist Congress, Uganda was offered by some Zionists as a place where a jewish country might be founded, and besided Uganda, Argentina was offered too, and those options were seriously considered and investigated.

I think you sould read this, I wrote it once as a post to a news report:

First of all, I'm sorry for my English, and I'll probably won't be able to express myself as I wound in otehr languages (Hebrew for example), but many of you don't vene have the slightest idea of what's really going on.

I leave in Israel, Jerusalem. This "Situation" between us and the Palestinians had started long before the 90's, though there is no need go go back to the bible.

In the 20s-30s, there was a British mandate in Israel, the British governent has promised us to create a country for us in Israel, we were very happy, because we thought that may funally solve our problem (antisemitism), this point of view is called Zonism.

Well, everything seemed to be fine, and lots of people from russia and europe started coming to Israel (this is called "Aliyot" in hebrew). Back then we had no governmant. no army, and that land belonged to the UK.

After few years, the arabs- who also lived there - have decided they don't like the situation. The result? simple, they started killing us, murdering people (This is called "meoraot", and there are several occasions when this happened)). and we couldn't even protect ourselves because we had no weapons, no army, no police. we had to rely on the british mandate to defent us.

This didn't happen, and after an investigations, the british governmant have desided that it's our fault, becuase we are taking their land and jobs, so they published the a document called "the white book", with restrictions about land purchase and stuff like that.

We of-course objected and told them that the attack were happening because they arabs where running a propoganda against us (because their leaders wanted to gain power through it), but it didn't help.

A few years have passed, nothing changed, and they started murdering us again, and again - we couldn't even defend our selves. And what did the British government do? they published another white book, with even more restriction.

and that's the way it was, every time they started to murder our people - onother white book. we new that we must defend our selves, so we made some organizations to defend us when the time is right. that was the basis for the IDF to come.

During WWII, we halped the british governamnt to manufacture weapons, and we had few military organizations of our own to provide defence. The arabian attacks continued, but this time we could at least defend our selves.

Today, we have a country, a government, and an army.
Our army still does the same things, it provides defence. and It's good army. we won all our wars (there are different reasons for that), we made peace with jordan and egypt - giving them access to water supplies (we gave part of "kineret" lake to jordan, and a large piace of land which we conqered back to egypt).

But the palestinians just don't want us here. We teach our children in schools that they should strive to peace, they teach there children that suiciding and killing Israelis while doing so will grant them a place in heaven next to muhamad, They teach them that there is no such thing as "Israel", and they hate us. This, by the way, has been proven, and our military was shocked when they discovered maps of "palestine" covering the whole territory of Israel in their schools.


As someone said here, attemps to achieve peace only provoke more hostility. Ehud Barak was willing to give them almost the whole country, and as a result they started to blow buses rapidly ,shooting and cevilian cars killing whole families, going to villages and murdering civilians, etc...


One might say it is our fault, and I simply can;t see it because I'm Israely. well, It's not true. I do want peace, I trully want it, and most of the israeli people want it.

Arafat is a terrorist, not because I hate him, but because he is indeed a terorist- from an historic point of view.

Every day, EVERY SINGLE DAY, we stop another suicide bomber from killing dozens of civilians, every day they try to kill civilians by bomarding villages (Thanks to the lack of their military technoligie, and to our millitary, this rarely couses casualties). We kill people such as the hamas leaders simply because it's one of the only things we can do in order to protect ourselves.

And because we have a military force and good intellegence gathering, we don't have more casualties than they have. And if they didn't try try to kill our soldiers while there are women and children among their gunman (it's a known tactic) , and if they stopped teaching their children that it's good to kill the "evil israeli people", and if there whole government wasn't ruled by organizations such as hamas, they wouldn't had casualties at all.

Lately they blowed 2 tanks (not really tanks, I don't know how to say it in English, in hebrew it's called "NAGMASH") with lots of soldiers using smuggled RPGs from egypt. So we entered Rafah in order to stop this, we have a right to do this.

It's really shamefull that some of you here think there are no smuggling tunnels, that we made this up. you want proves? there are dozens of them: photos, videos, you can even go and see them yourselves ffs.

I go to cnn.com and I see something like: "Rafah residents: living in hell...". for you it seems that when they kill 40 israelis in a bus bombing it's much less serious than the destruction of a tiny house where weapons where smuggled in order to kill another 40 Israelis.

You know nothing besides what you see on tv and read in the newspapers. Each time we offer them peace they blow another bus. Our current military actions helped the most in fighting terrorism, and that's why we continue doing them (and to be honest, CT experts from all over the world come here to learn from us about CQB, CT tactics, etc...).
During operation "Homat Magen" (Shield Wall?) almost no alerts on terror attacks came, it was a complete success, many terrorists and gunman were cought, many explosives labs where destroyed, But for you it's crime against humanity.

You tend to ignore things like When they brought a pig corpse to Jhenin in order for it to smell like like a massacure , or when they lied to news agencies as the lie each day.

You see pictures of palestinian streets and you are shocked because of how awfull it looks. well, the truth is it looks the same (and even worse) in every arabian country, including egypt, iraq, jordan, etc....

You see a palestinian boy who was accidently killed by IDF soldiers and you think we are murderers, while you don't know that the parents of this boy probably think that sending him to suicide and killing dozens of jews is the most noble thing on earth.

You just hate us more and more with every step we do, and there is nothing we can do about it. we can't offer them peace because we don't have anyone to offer peace to, and history proved it by hundrend of terror casualties. We also can't do nothing while hamas (and other organizations) is getting stronger and causing more and more dead on our side. But when we try to protect our selves by the most basic means of protection it's a crime against humanity.

Zionism is an ideal, a belief that the true Children of God are not in fact the 12 tribes of Israel but rather went north into Europe. Zionism gained popularity by Henry Ford a devout antisemite who published the Protocols of Zion, the book that explains Zionism.
Basically that Jewish people are working on a one world government, mainly through a global money system as it explains in the Book of Revelations. Without getting Apocalyptical many people beleive mostly groups that focus on anti-semitism that Jewish people are in charge of not only all monetary institutions but working on controlling the government.
So long story-short ,I know too late. Zionism is a belief system.

.

[edit on 16-9-2004 by Tamahu]

"Ding"! Tamahu you have just won the "$6,000,000" question grand prize!

Quote: "the Jews and the Muslims DON'T hate each other. "

- Yeah that is why I see the Jews & the Muslums Blowing each other up in the News Media non-stop for like the last 3 Years!!!
But Since the Israeli Jews & Palestinian Arab Muslims are both
SEMITIC PEOPLE (see the connection between Race & Language & Religion) they must have more mutually in comon than not. So all the Violence must be provoked by some outside force - European & American Zionists anyone? Hey - I wonder were all of Israel's Lovey Tanks & Jet Fighters came from - oh yeah I remember now "Made in the U.S.A"!!!

[edit on 19-10-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 19-10-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Zionism is a political movement among Jews (although supported by some non-Jews) holding that the Jewish people constitute a nation and are entitled to a national homeland. Formally founded in 1897, Zionism embraced a variety of opinions in its early years on where that homeland might be established. From 1917 it focused on the establishment of a Jewish National Homeland or state in Palestine, the location of the ancient Kingdom of Israel. Since 1948, Zionism has been a movement to support the development and defence of the State of Israel, and to encourage Jews to settle there.

en.wikipedia.org...

More than 50 years after the founding of Israel, and after more than 80 years of Arab-Jewish conflict over the territory that is now Israel, the great majority of Jews in all countries continue to regard themselves as Zionists and to support Israel in all circumstances, although many have misgivings about current Israeli policies. Some liberal or socialist Jews outside Israel, as well as some Orthodox Jewish communities, still oppose Zionism as a matter of principle. Well-known Jewish scholars and statesmen who have opposed Zionism include Bruno Kreisky, Hans Fromm and Michael Selzer. In the United States Jewish intellectuals such as Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein have continued to oppose Zionism, although few argue that the Jewish settlement of Palestine should actually be reversed. Most argue for the establishment of a secular binational state in which Arabs and Jews live together.

Zionism today

Alex Kennedy I voted for you. WYA ABOVE for your excelent posts in this thread, thank God there are intelligent, thinking, sane people left in this world and on this board. We need more like this...

Originally posted by AlexKennedy

A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel.

(From the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition, via www.dictionary.com)

"A Jewish movement?" That's a vague definition that only increases the confusion. A jewish movement is what I have when I get home from the deli.

Can we at least agree that "Modern Zionism" is a political party whose primary concern is the "support and development of the state of Israel."

Zionism is not a spiritual practice, it's a political ideology, right?

A Zionist could be an athiest, so long as he firmly believes the "historical jews mentioned in the bible" have the right to reside in the geographical region we now call Israel, and have the right to maintain their sovereignty as a political state.

Correct?

[edit on 30-8-2004 by bunkbuster]

www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

Originally posted by bunkbuster
Can we at least agree that "Modern Zionism" is a political party whose primary concern is the "support and development of the state of Israel."

Yes we can. Zionist have their jewish state and are now focusing on the development of this state into an international force.

Wow, I actually Find myself agreeing with Alex Kennedy where he debunked the wrongful claims about zionism. Infinite, you have done a great job as well.

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
Wow, I actually Find myself agreeing with Alex Kennedy where he debunked the wrongful claims about zionism. Infinite, you have done a great job as well.

Hey, wait a minute -- I resemble that remark! Is it so wierd that you'd agree with me? Am I some insane voice, crying in the wilderness?

Zi�on�ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (z-nzm)
n.
A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i just found this on an online website and thought id share it...dont know much else...

Hiya JustMe74

I clicked your link and had a read, not all of if but nearly half. I can tell you now, I didn't come away from that thinking, "Wow yeah, the Talmud is so misunderstood and now I understand it...", Sorry but its true.

Here is something that stood out.

www.angelfire.com...

Text in question.

Talmud Bava Kamma 113b
Shmuel said: Their mistakes are permitted. Like when Shmuel bought from a gentile a golden bowl (with the seller thinking it was bronze) for four zuz and accidentally paid him one zuz less.

OK, I?m seeing two wrongs here; a golden bowl instead of a bronze and accidentally underpaying. The first is about knowing, at the time, that you are committing fraud. The contract is, bronze bowl = 4 zuz. The second relies on knowing you underpaid and thinking its fine (yes there is only one way to find out you have underpaid and that is to know it).

Gil Student's explanation (the guy writing the articles for this site):

The Talmud is not stating that it is permissible to cheat a gentile... What the Talmud is saying is that normal business relations is for each party of a transaction to be responsible for their side of the deal. If Shmuel found a cheap bowl and, after accidentally underpaying, the seller did not count his money, then Shmuel was not obligated to correct the seller...

Hmm sounds fair enough for Gentiles I suppose...

Student goes on to say:

For one's brothers and relatives one must go beyond the standard practice of business relations and correct all mistakes - return lost change, explain all misunderstandings, etc. However, for a business relation with whom there is mutual respect and understanding but nothing more, one conducts business by following convention.

Sounds like the Talmud knows the difference between how to do business with Gentiles (conventional/standard/small print/misinformation etc.) and with Jews (honesty/integrity/clear concepts/communication etc.). Apparently this is all about accidental mistakes...however accidental mistakes can be overcome by going beyond the standard practice...

You know, I hardly ever go on sites that are blatantly trying to tell me something be it "The Talmud is EVIL!!!" or "The Talmud IS NOT evil!!!" That site you put a link to JustMe74 is one of those sites, it's a beaut actually, just check out his answer to the question, "What is Judaism?"...Ill even c&p a line from it.

In fact, there is no word in the English language that adequately expresses the nature of Judaism and to limit one's ideas to those words that are available in English is to commit a grave error.

Oh dear. But he has a go anyway, bless his cotton socks!

The Jewish people are one organic unit and each Jew is spiritually connected with his fellow. To take vengeance on a fellow Jew is like the left hand taking vengeance on the right hand. They are two parts of the same whole.

Phew!

isn'T it rather naive to belive everything they indoctrinate you with -- at school or anywhere else for that matter..?

i suggest you read some of the quotes made by your fellow zionists:
monabaker.com...

...and you will maybe begin to understand how wrong you are.

isn'T it rather naive to belive everything they indoctrinate you with -- at school or anywhere else for that matter..?

i suggest you read some of the quotes made by your fellow zionists:
monabaker.com...

...and you will maybe begin to understand how wrong you are.

Zionisn is an idea according to which the the solution to the jewish problem (antisemitism) lies in the constitution of a Jewish nation, not nessecarily in Israel.

All the other things you heard about Zionism are pure BS. Zionsm has nothing to do with nazism or racism. It developed during the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century because of the antisemitism all over europe and the world, and has nothing to do with the Talmud.

I know this because I happen to be a Jew, and I live in Israel. We learn this in schools.

edit: the Jews and the Muslims DON'T hate each other. The origins of the Palestinian problem have little to do with religion, and it basically started during the British mandate in Israel.

[Edited on 29-5-2004 by Transc3ndent]

monabaker.com...

Originally posted by Transc3ndent
[History lesson:

Quoting David Icke's "The Biggest Secret"-0-9526147-6-6:

"There are two main sub divisions of those who call themselves Jewish, the Sephardim and the Ashkenazim. The Sephardim are the descendants of those who lived in Spain from antiquity until the 15th century when they were expelled. The Ashkenazim are the ancestors the Khazars. In the 1960's the Sephardim were estimated to number some half a million, but the Ashkenazim numbered about eleven million. These eleven million have absolutely no historical connection with Israel whatsoever, but they are the ones who invaded Palestine and created the State of Israel with the justification that 'God' promised them that land in the Old Testament. Who wrote the Old Testament? Their priests, the Levites! And who wrote the New Testament which created Christianity? People controlled by the same force which controlled the Levites, the Babylonian Brotherhood."

This whole Zionist ideal is nothing more then another way to alienate the Jewish people. Zionism is just a cover for the real term, "Sionism". Sionism is a religious pagan sun cult of Satanic roots, with Babylonian Brotherhood strings attached to it. The Zionist cause is a grand conspiracy against the world. That is why the Jews are treated the worst by the masses. That is why we are the minority of all minorities. Jews are the ones the are being framed by the elitists. For was not what happened in Germany, Egypt, Palestine, and Russia enough proof so???

[Edited on 11-5-2003 by Abraham Virtue]

:/

Now THAT is quite pathetic. Not only it has nothing to do with History, it shows nothing but stupidity, made of few invented claims with no historical sources whatsoever.

TBH, I have NEVER heard of Sionism, there is no such word in hebrew, I can assure you that 99.99999 percent of the jews never head about it, and I can also assure you it has nothing to do with the creation of Zionism, nor with it's basic ideas.

"but they are the ones who invaded Palestine and created the State of Israel ". this partis even a bit insulting.
"Invaded Palestine?", it seems like this David Icke never even bothered to open an enciclopedia. He surely never heard of WWI, the British mandate of Palestine, Balfour Declaration, the zionist congress, and other key events in the history of Israel.

please, read my post here, it also talks about history (but this time REAL history, not some racist junk): www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please comment on this:

Ashkenazim are descendants of the Khazars
who used to live in what is now the Ukranian Steppe...
Right? They were not indigenous in Palestine.

Quote: "Sionism is a religious pagan sun cult of *Satanic Roots* with Babylonian Brotherhood strings attached to it."

Who says that "Pagan Sun God Worship" is necessarily Satanic - you would first have to believe in Satan to believe in this!!! So now you see the REAL problem - looking at everything through a Judeo-Christian Lense of Dogma & Superstition! OFCOURSE they view Pagans as "Satanists" - even though most Pagans DO NOT BELIEVE in or WORSHIP SATAN!!!!

It is Judeo-Christians that believe in Satan!!!

This thread should be allowed to die. Seriously. It is causing far more harm than good.