Police agencies in the United States to begin using drones in 90 days

Originally posted by GreenGlassDoor
I think SHTF when one of these guys collides with a Bald Eagle, California Condor, or some such endangered thing. Then all Hell will break loose as militant greens and Al Gore swoop onto the scene and start taking names and lawsuits.

Yep that is kind of the point I'm making.

I consider drones just to be another tool for law enforcement and they definitely have benefits. If we don't allow things to come into society because we are afraid of potential abuses then we should just revert back to the early 19th century, get rid of computers......you get the point.

Instead we should make sure a proper system is in place that will limit abuse and punish those who commit it rather than just running away from it.

That seems the most logical way forward to me.

Originally posted by Hopechest


Like I said, if you have enough demand for something then it will happen.

Really? When? Let me know when these things happen. Until then I'm not gonna hold my breath.

None of those items you listed had a large enough demand.

You're freaking kidding, right?! Even if what you just said were true, which it's not, what makes you think this drone thing would get "a large enough demand"? Especially when we have citizens like you trusting in the government and their drones.

However, if normal citizens are getting buzzed by drones while walking into Wal-mart I think you can count on enough people being upset by it to speak out.

You really think that's gonna happen? Seriously, wake up out of the fair tale world you live in.

Originally posted by Hopechest
Politicians are mainly concerned with remaining in power. If their constituents are demanding something in great enough numbers it will trump anything. Loyalty to party, corporate donations, personal beliefs.......This is a common factor among them that transcends political ideologies.

That's garbage. The overwhelming majority of voters who voiced their opinion about the bailouts were ignored. The people have long lost confidence in the system. This is evidenced by the low voting turnout at the very least.

Corporations rule Washington, not the people, unfortunately.

Originally posted by Hopechest


Instead we should make sure a proper system is in place that will limit abuse and punish those who commit it rather than just running away from it.

And how do we "make sure" of this? And what do we do until it's in place? Just accept it? I don't think so.

reply to post by LazarusTsiyr


I don't trust the government but I will give them the benefit of the doubt until they screw up then I will hold them accountable.

It seems like no matter what they do you are accusing them of mis-conduct before they even start.

I'm curious as to what you actually think is going to happen when law enforcement agencies get full use of drones. Are they just going to pick out random people and watch them for no reason?

Are they going to arm them with rockets and spend a fun saturday blowing cars off the freeway?

What exactly is the concern you have?

Originally posted by Hopechest


I don't trust the government but I will give them the benefit of the doubt until they screw up then I will hold them accountable.

I guess we just ignore all of the countless other times they've screwed things up.

For someone who doesn't trust the government, you sure are defending them and giving them the benefit of the doubt a lot.

Right. Let me guess. You're just playing devil's advocate? smh

It seems like no matter what they do you are accusing them of mis-conduct before they even start.

That's because of what they have done throughout history. And it seems like no matter what they have done, you are turning a blind eye to the extreme potential for misconduct. And that misconduct will be detrimental to our society.

You are too busy being a government cheerleader (who allegedly doesn't trust the government) to see that.

I'm curious as to what you actually think is going to happen when law enforcement agencies get full use of drones. Are they just going to pick out random people and watch them for no reason?

Random people? No. But anyone that they deem a threat? Ever heard of renditioning? Our government still does that!

Are they going to arm them with rockets and spend a fun saturday blowing cars off the freeway?

Maybe. Ever heard of martial law? Ever heard of us killing American citizens with drone attacks in foreign countries? Anwar al-Awlaki ring any bells? What would stop them from doing it here? Especially with the NDAA allowing indefinite detention of American citizens. Yep there's that trustworthy government of yours.

My concerns are a sick abuse of power which we have seen from our government frequently

reply to post by LazarusTsiyr


So should we remove all computers from law enforcement since they may spy on us?

Should we take away their guns because they could shoot us at any time?

The potential is there for all of it yet you seem to only be picking and choosing certain potential abuses you don't like.

Originally posted by Hopechest

So should we remove all computers from law enforcement since they may spy on us?

Reductio ad absurdum

Should we take away their guns because they could shoot us at any time?

And another one. Although some people may agree with that statement.

The potential is there for all of it yet you seem to only be picking and choosing certain potential abuses you don't like.

No, I'm not. What I'm doing is called "staying on topic" and not committing logical fallacies.

How much are these overpriced toys going to cost the taxpayer? I'm more of a realist, I don't want to pay more taxes so everyone working in the government can have these toys. If China made them for us they would be a tenth of the price I bet but then the big contractors would lose megabucks.

OK,...Nasa, the air force, Army, Navy, Colleges,..border patrol,..all viable uses I could say.

But the police departments, especially those not near any borders?.... Best start cooling off you grow lights in your legal (or otherwise) grow-ops. And if your 16 year old daughter likes to sunbathe in the back yard fenced?... might want to suggest otherwise.

The police are the ones I have an issue having these.

No, I am not talking about little Johnny lost in the woods, or scoping out a perp holed up with hostages,...

I am talking about violation of privacy.

It used to be privacy ended within eyeshot of the street view, but I guess your privacy now ends within the core of your home away from window view.

Who is going to oversee the police? We know that story already. Dont we.

reply to post by LazarusTsiyr


Ahhhh I got you with that one apparently.

Its not off topic just because you don't have an answer for it you know.

The fact is that law enforcement has plenty of tools they could abuse and this is just yet another one. Having access to drones will not increase the chances of abuse that are not already there with other things.

Will some abuse happen? Probably.

Will they be held responsible for it? More than likely.

How many videos do we see on this site of police beating people who have surrendered? Quite a few but does that mean we should get rid of law enforcement altogether or would it be wiser to hold those who commit the crimes responsible?

The same logic applies to the use of drones, computers, firearms, powers of arrest, you name it.

reply to post by LazarusTsiyr


If drones are used on a Species area for..

Then why is it hard to accept this WAS going to happen OP? This how it works. THEY WERE ACCEPTED by the Species when USED ELSWEHERE and so Prototyped and evaluated better when elsewhere, so to eventually be Everywhere. Its LOGIC even if not accepted consciously but subconsciously accepted elsewhere.



NAMASTE*******

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by LazarusTsiyr

 

Having access to drones will not increase the chances of abuse that are not already there with other things.

I wholeheartedly dis-agree.

EVERY tool the police have has potential for unique and new ways to misuse. EVERY tool. And I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

(no, I am not anti police, I am against loss of privacy and tools that should be highly regulated.)

Originally posted by Hopechest
Having access to drones will not increase the chances of abuse that are not already there with other things.

Actually it will. As someone else pointed out, drones are a lot quieter. They can slip in and out easily.

Will they be held responsible for it? More than likely.

There you go again making false assumptions with absolutely no evidence to back them up other than your trust of the government doing the right thing.

Quite a few but does that mean we should get rid of law enforcement altogether or would it be wiser to hold those who commit the crimes responsible?

And how often do those cops get away with their violence against citizens?? That definitely shoots to hell your whole "They'll be held accountable" nonsense.

Originally posted by smirkley

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by LazarusTsiyr

 

Having access to drones will not increase the chances of abuse that are not already there with other things.

I wholeheartedly dis-agree.

I'm sure the drones are not cheap to fly so all uses of them will have to be monitored. If a couple cops are just flying them around looking at women sun-bathing I'm sure they are going to have to justify that cost to their superior who in turn has to account for it in his/her budget.

Don't you think they are going to be just a tad bit upset to learn their employees are going on boob-patrols at the cost of a thousand dollars or whatever the price is?

Originally posted by Hopechest

Don't you think they are going to be just a tad bit upset to learn their employees are going on boob-patrols at the cost of a thousand dollars or whatever the price is?

"Boob patrol" is not our concern here! I think whoever said that was being sarcastic. I'd think you'd know the difference.

There you go again making false assumptions with absolutely no evidence to back them up other than your trust of the government doing the right thing.

Is this not the exact same thing you are doing?

Making assumptions that they will be mis-used with no evidence to back it up? You may say the government has mis-used things in the past and you would have a point.

I would counter that there are things they haven't mis-used and I would have a point.

Seems neither of us can conslusively prove a case one way or another.

Originally posted by Hopechest

There you go again making false assumptions with absolutely no evidence to back them up other than your trust of the government doing the right thing.

Is this not the exact same thing you are doing?

Nope. Not at all. Because we have tons of historical evidence for government abuses of power to back this suspicion up. Do I need to invoke the Patriot Act and the NDAA again?

I would counter that there are things they haven't mis-used and I would have a point.

Such as?

Seems neither of us can conslusively prove a case one way or another.

Maybe not but our argument is more logically sound than yours. Yours is filled with nothing but hope (no pun intended) that the government will do the right thing. Mine is based on historical evidence.

Originally posted by Hopechest
I'm sure the drones are not cheap to fly ....

I'm sure they are going to have to justify that cost to their superior who in turn has to account for it in his/her budget. ....

....at the cost of a thousand dollars or whatever the price is?

Let me quote you...

I'm sure,..
I'm sure...
at a cost of whatever the price is?

So basically you dont know how cheap it is to run a small hover drone with a cam on it?

I will tell you. They could fly them all day and it wouldnt equal the daily salary of one rookie.

reply to post by LazarusTsiyr


Yes you actually may invoke them again.

How many people have been abused under the patriot act or the NDAA?

I'll give you a few minutes to research it although I already know the answer.