Cardinal Keith O'Brien steps down as Archbishop

Originally posted by jcutler12888
reply to post by truejew

 

No, I'm not talking tpabout the doctrines and rituals that organized religion shove down its followers' throats, I'm talking about repentance, baptism in Jesus' name, and being filled with the Holy Spirit, which is exactly what you believe salvation to be so really, you and I are on the same page concerning that. What I disagree with you about is the idea that anyone that claims a Christian denomination is not a true Christian. Surely you must know that there are Catholics and Protestants who have repented, been baptized in Jesus' name, and are filled with the Holy Spirit...right? You can't possibly think that none of them have been truly saved, right?

A person who walks in the Spirit would not be unequally yoked with Catholics or Protestants. I also did not say all denominations, I said Catholics and Protestants.

reply to post by truejew


Maybe I'm missing something or maybe it's just really late and I'm tired and it's slipping my mind, but I'm not aware at this time of any Christian denominations other than Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, the many forms of Protestantism, and the other Christian denominations derived from the Catholic faith (excluding Gnostic and a few others. A lot of people are simply born into families that identify themselves with certain denominations and they grow up and live their lives following the denomination they were raised in...but that doesn't mean that they can't or don't find true salvation. Don't you think that maybe, just MAYBE, you're being kinda harsh on billions of people that you don't even know?

Originally posted by jcutler12888
reply to post by truejew

 

Maybe I'm missing something or maybe it's just really late and I'm tired and it's slipping my mind, but I'm not aware at this time of any Christian denominations other than Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, the many forms of Protestantism, and the other Christian denominations derived from the Catholic faith (excluding Gnostic and a few others.

I have followed your posts in this thread and even if you are not Catholic I think you have stated the Christian viewpoint very well.

Many years ago I felt the need for something more in my life and began a search....I found the Roman Catholic Church and believe that this is the church founded by Jesus. I became a convert and have mostly been a practicing Catholic up to the present time. And yes, I am still bothered and give in to the temptations that are not the way of a Christian life. However, as part of my Church community I am able to progress more each day to live the way Jesus asked as to live.

I do not condone pedophilia or the cover up of such sin in our church. God has seen the need to "clean house" and has taken steps to do this. Many of the scandals being brought out now, well I leave this to God also.

Matthew 17: 18 And I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

Mahree

not sure if this has been posted yet...

it's going to be the front page of tomorrow's Daily Mirror. it's a pic of the Cardinal posing with Jimmy Savile and two kids!

twitter.com...

[
My God! When are you people gonna wake up! There's no game with this, it's out and out Pedophilia. The more people make stupid excuses for them and hide from the issues the messier it will become.

Did you even read the article? He is not accused of pedophelia.... He is accused of misconduct toward another priest......!

I wish people would read the posts and the associated articles before they trash the RC Church or anyone else for that matter. At least it would show their ignorance in the right context!

no need to say anymore.

notty notty

Guardian,
www.guardian.co.uk...

The cardinal revealed in his statement that he had been asked by the outgoing pope to stand down immediately. Already due to retire next month, the cardinal stated: "The Holy Father has now decided that my resignation will take effect today." But the move led critics to demand that other cardinals at the centre of scandals over failures to report sex abuse by priests – including Roger Mahony, emeritus archbishop of Los Angeles, and Seán Brady, the primate of all Ireland – "recuse" themselves from the papal conclave, citing O'Brien's decision as a precedent.

I don't know if someones posted this, but I've also read his connections with the late Jimmy Saville

O’Brien had been accused by four priests of sexual exploitation when they were much younger, with some of the charges going back 30 years. He had previously denied the charges. They made an official complaint to the Papal Nuncio in Britain.

www.irishcentral.com...

Originally posted by jcutler12888
reply to post by truejew

 

Maybe I'm missing something or maybe it's just really late and I'm tired and it's slipping my mind, but I'm not aware at this time of any Christian denominations other than Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, the many forms of Protestantism, and the other Christian denominations derived from the Catholic faith (excluding Gnostic and a few others. A lot of people are simply born into families that identify themselves with certain denominations and they grow up and live their lives following the denomination they were raised in...but that doesn't mean that they can't or don't find true salvation. Don't you think that maybe, just MAYBE, you're being kinda harsh on billions of people that you don't even know?

In order to be one of the groups you mention, the trinity of gods must be worshiped. The true Church existed before any of those groups and worship only one God.

The way is narrow and few find it. Billions of people do not equal few.

Originally posted by conz1992
I don't know if someones posted this, but I've also read his connections with the late Jimmy Saville

O’Brien had been accused by four priests of sexual exploitation when they were much younger, with some of the charges going back 30 years. He had previously denied the charges. They made an official complaint to the Papal Nuncio in Britain.

The amount that this behavior was allowed to permeate ALARMING And if / is Observed then how can this supposed positive guiding group think be validated with ills like this constantly present?

1 would think that the who taught Abraham LORD ENLIL (Lord of the "SKY" & "COMMAND") think??? and Abraham who then influenced Judaism-Christianity-Islam. Would be upset with these functions smh.

Terrible

I think it make people hate Catholics. I was raised a Catholic and still call myself one to this very day. I'm not ashamed. Granted, i should probably go to church a lot more.... but still....

I think the religion itself, although strict to some, is not a bad religion. And i don't know of anyone who sticks to the religion so strictly. I don't. I try to be a good person, care for others and just live my life. I'm one of those who think being a genuinely decent person will give you a lot more than following any religion without failure.

I just think certain people/leaders within the religion give it a terrible name. :/

reply to post by nolabel


simply to me the entire world wants people to be trashy, slutty, lying, gay. to believe in their type of religion- which amounts to glutony, greed and doing what they are told. At the same time they don't want anyone to believe in the bible or God. government (or governments if you prefer-personally I believe their is only one) believe their are better than God, they want to control every aspect of everyone.

reply to post by nolabel


No surprise here. I'm so glad the victims of abuse spoke out and refused to be silent. It made all of us stronger. When something is built on a huge lie or fairytale (as is religion IMHO) then it follows that corruption will follow. But then again, there's corruption everywhere, isn't there? It's a human trait.

I think it's ridiculous for the Catholic church to expect it's nuns and priests to be celibate. Why don't they usher in a new phase of married priests and nuns? They should tackle their problem with child sex abuse with serious intent, they owe it to their faithful.

reply to post by truejew


Okay, now you've lost me as to where you stand on this subject with your "trinity of gods" statement. You, my friend, we're the one who said the ONLY way to true CHRISTian salvation is to repent, be baptized in JESUS' name, and be filled with the HOLY SPIRIT. Now, add GOD to that and you have God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, all of which you said must be accepted, followed, and fill you to be saved. Now, last time I checked, the father God, the son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirity were three parts of one Holy Trinity which constitute the Godhead...and these three parts of a whole are the very ones YOU said are the way to true salvation. Now, what exactly are you trying to say? Your posts are beginning to contradict themselves and frankly, you're not making much sense (at least, not to me).

Including Scripture and Biblical references in your posts will not and is not lending any credibility or validity to your argument. "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:14-15 Great, we've both read the Bible, good for us! Now, back to the POINT. You're right, two billion people isn't a few...but I never said that every single one of the current two billion followers of Christianity in all of its denominations are truly saved...in fact, there are MANY false Christians...what I said was that you are judging two billion people and immediately writing them off as not being saved when your blanket judgement is consummately untrue. If you want to make a statement, it's best not to deal in absolutes, but you categorically pegged two billion people as not being truly saved and you are simply incorrect. Not to mention, even if every single one of those two billion souls were saved, it would be very few compared to the FIVE billion lost souls...but let's look at this from a broader perspective: with all of the people who have ever inhabited this planet and will inhabit this planet in the future (including the current seven billion), how many of them do you think were, are, and will be TRULY saved? I'd say very few compared to the many that have been, are, and will be lost.

Since you are obviously concerned with the number of lost souls in this world and you are CLEARLY SUCH a solid source on how exactly a person can TRULY save their soul and who is and isn't a TRUE Christian, why don't you try the Christian way of evangelism and go out there and start doing the Lord's work by preaching His Word and saving some souls by converting them and/or showing them the TRUE path to salvation? Or are all these lost souls you speak of just a waste of time when your time is OBVIOUSLY better spent here on an Internet forum preaching to a bunch of strangers about your clearly superior knowledge of theology and the way to God and who is and isn't a Christian?

From your very first post, you have not seemed very concerned for your brothers and sisters here on Earth that are on the wrong path and are lost...you have simply pointed fingers and made rather bold claims about your knowledge being irrefutable. You're not infallible, right? Just checking.

reply to post by truejew


Oh, by the way, before you go to ponder whether your time would be better spent serving the one true God by either evangelism and saving souls or preaching and condemning from a keyboard, since you're so fond of using Scripture to try to get your point across, let me leave you with these little gems for your consideration:

"Jesus said to them, 'If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone...'" John 8:7
"He said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.'" Mark 16:15
"He said to His disciples, 'The harvest truly is plentiful, but the laborers are few.'" Matthew 9:37
"For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:13-14
Jesus said - "'But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me and to the end of the earth.'" Acts 1:8
"'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.'" Acts 16:31
Jesus said - "'I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.'" Luke 15:7
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes." Romans 1:15
Jesus said - "'And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." John 12:23
"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'" John 14:6
"Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:19
"Accept anyone who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion." Romans 14:1
"If anyone says, 'I love God,' yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother." 1 John 4:20-21
"He answered: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" Luke 10:27
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

I could go on and on and on but I HOPE you get the picture. Just a little food for thought, truejew. I hope we can be friends even though we seem to disagree on a few things.

reply to post by Mahree


Thank you, Mahree. I'm so very glad to hear that you've found faith.

Originally posted by jcutler12888
reply to post by truejew

 

Now, last time I checked, the father God, the son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirity were three parts of one Holy Trinity which constitute the Godhead...and these three parts of a whole are the very ones YOU said are the way to true salvation.

What you are saying cannot be found in Scripture and is actually based on pagan teachings. God is not three gods, divided into parts, nor is He controlled by the number three. He is simply one God. The Father is Holy and He is one Spirit. The Father was then manifest in the flesh as the Son of God.

1 Corinthians 8:6-7 (KJV)
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

2 Corinthians 5:19-20 (KJV)
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

reply to post by truejew


It doesn't matter that I'm saying it slightly differently than you, truejew. You're arguing semantics with me now.,I know the one true God is Holy and one Spirit. I know the Father then manifest himself in the flesh as the Son of God, Jesus Christ. So far, you have referred to God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ...so it doesn't really matter if someone calls it "the trinity"...they're talking about the same thing as you: God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ, which are all one and all God. Why are you splitting hairs? "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" - Matthew 28:19

Originally posted by jcutler12888
reply to post by truejew

 

It doesn't matter that I'm saying it slightly differently than you, truejew. You're arguing semantics with me now.

There is a big difference between one God and three gods.

Originally posted by jcutler12888

I know the Father then manifest himself in the flesh as the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

Your statement is not compatible with the doctrine of the trinity.

Originally posted by jcutler12888

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" - Matthew 28:19

The words, "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" are considered to be questionable by many since the apostles did not do that. Instead they baptized in the name of Jesus.

reply to post by truejew


I'm aware there's a big difference between one God and three gods...but you KNOW I'm not talking about three gods, you KNOW I'm talking about the one God.

My statement is compatible with the truth. Now, dear theology scholar, please explain to me what the doctrine of the Trinity is since I'm clearly dense and not understanding it (even though I was raised in the religion that preaches it). Then try to tell me how you're saying toe-may-toe while I'm saying toe-mah-toe and how they're not the same thing at all, really.

Why are those words considered to be questionable? They are part of Scripture, and the New Testament given to us to follow in the wake of Christ dying for our sins. You seem to rely heavily on Scripture but when presented with this bit that you don't like, you call it questionable? Who's questioning it other than you??