Why are Americans deluded into thinking they could win a civil war?

Originally posted by chrome413
I think the premise if off. A true civil war is going to involve military commanders choosing sides. Once that happens, then it's on.

Thats right, there are millions of Oathkeepers now in the military. These are people that will never follow orders to attack their own people. I think the first sign of a civil war will cause the US military to split, with soilders taking tanks, anti armor, missiles, you name it with them to disperse to militias across the country so the both sides will have modern weapons. The strategy will be the same successfull strategy used in Afganastan. There is new technology being developed like Low Energy Nuclear Reactions and others that could supply the resistance with the energy it needs without the oil as well. Lets hope none of this is neccesary as the new technology will allow people to live without government assistance.

reply to post by sajuek


well yeah why do you think the new after appocalypse "shows have come out.. most of us have given up any idea that our govt cares about us.. We who live in the disabled community in fact expect the worse from DC and their minions it doesn't matter what party they are from..


We also know we won't survive.. so we have naught to lose speaking out about their medical nonsense


want to know what our govt is capable of read Medical Apratheid BY Harriet A Washington

Has anyone read the "Turner Diaries?" It gives, what I think, is a fairly good description of how a civil war would play out in modern America.

P.S. The war in the book is brought about by a "race war" and I am in no way condoning racism of any sort or ethnic cleansing on any level. Had to point that out, lest I be branded a racist.

Im using the Tao- Do nothing.

Allow the PTB screw themselves like they always do every few thousand years.

YEEHAW!
Not another "Rambo" thread, another whimper and whine thread!
One dumbass even said it would welcome communism...I've killed commies...and not to sound like E-Bay but I give the experience a 7, and would deal with same vendor again!
Okay, the "military" thinking in this thread just reminds me how easy armys fall.
Take heart, the new fighter's way isn't even guessed at here.
That would be a good thing.
Okay kiddies, back to it.

It's frequently said that militias would win over the military because if the improvising gunwielders in the Middle East can do it, so can anyone.
Has it been considered that the troops are just being deliberately restrained in order to make it seem like The Terrorists are more powerful than they really are? The war on terror must be stretched out for as long as possible, because it provides a continuous scapegoat for the government's plans.

Originally posted by pikestaff
I would read all you can about whats going on in Syria now, 'them' is the Syrian army/government, 'us' is a mixture of every Muslim creed/faction/splinter group you could think of, sometimes fighting the Syrian army, sometimes slaughtering any civilian they come across, civil war at its worst, just read.

The "them" in Syria is mainly composed of foreign mercenaries, Islamic extremists, and foreign spies. They operate by inciting ethnic and religious strife and by wanton slaughter. Syrian Danny is the ultimate spokesperson for the Syrian "revolution."

reply to post by twoturtles


I like your take on organizing the gangs and survivalists to defeat a tyranical government, but when said government is defeated, what makes you think that MS 13, Latin Kings, Crips or any other gang would take over the spot and rule over Average Joe??

Look at Afghanistan/Pakistan and how US tried getting certain factions together to combat the Taliban, but now these warlords are killing each other and their people for power.

Even the government would be hard pressed to destroy itself - they want control not carnage and a single 308 round could render a jet unable to fly, much less something with mile plus range like a 338, 410 or 50 cal

I think to compare any conflict abroad to what would be a civil war is a bit narrow. America's conflicts abroad is more about gaining resources, regional influence and encircling greater threats, the defeat of terrorist cells is more about the removal of terrorist cells from areas that America wish to control, rather than the total destruction of that cell. Remember, terrorists can always come in useful and no country wants total unification.

In the event of an American civil war, I think people are deluded in to thinking it would be the people vs the government, it would be conservatives vs liberals, races vs races, gangs vs gangs, opportunists vs opportunists, state vs state. This would not be clear cut at all, the American government have already won, because they divided you, you people will eat each other alive in the event of a collapse, which is what it will take. There will be no winner, just nationwide lawless cities and millions dead. Britain is the same, there can be no revolution, the government divided the white people first through politics, then through class, then they added immigrants to divide key areas even further and dilute nationalism to the point that we no longer stand on our feet, or even on our knees.

The American government would utilise drone attacks and long range attacks more than anything and key cities (those rich in resource or key to strategy) that have turned against the government will be a target, the rest will be left until later. From the chaos many will realise that what has taken place from the government is something far worse and gradually the government will take back areas, installing a ruthless policy of control like nothing you have ever seen. America would continue on, but in the form of a true police state which is something none of you have ever experienced, regardless of how hard you think it might be at the moment, its nothing compared to what it would be. That's after most of you are long dead of course.

Like most countries in the Western world, the idea of a civil war has long since been in the minds of government and if you think they have not already installed military hardware, installations, tactics and policies to combat this then you are dreaming. They are even fully prepared for soldiers to turn on them. Believe me, they have won already, but if you think you can beat them go ahead, you truly are wasting your time. All I will say is that you must prepare to defend yourself and your family, because if it does kick off, you will all be on your own and believe me as hard and prepared as you might think you are, nothing can prepare you for the reality of being alone in such a hostile environment. Prepare to fight and live without the luxury of mod cons, perhaps even on the move, because such a scenerio has no mercy for the weak and unprepared, believe me.

Hmm. I tend to doubt that dirty bombs would be viable unless used as an area denial weapon or on concentrations. Otherwise, you are just dirtying your own soil. Same with chemical weapons and smallpox, all of which will have to be dealt with by the victor post-war. However, those are important issues that you raise, especially how you point out the gentleman's agreement between nations that would not exist in a civil war.
I do think you tend to assume that "The United States Government" would operate as a cohesive unit, which I would argue is doubtful. If a civil war was to happen, I tend to think it would involve servicemen on both sides.
However, you've made some excellent points. Personally, I think that a civil war would be absolutely terrible, no matter who wins.

Given the absolute contempt for government by society today, I see no way for government to ultimately come out on top if a civil war were to erupt. I am sure they are aware of this. Whether or not they decide to chance it is another story. They seldom make good choices. There are politicians on the citizens side as well though. They are the ones screaming about protecting the Constitution.

secretface makes the best point.. Most folks have fallen for the divde and conquer bs and have no clue how to get along with their neighbors.. here, we get along because we have to.. we don't discuss politics in the mtns. we discuss which person has the most arugula*L*

I've been screaming about the divde and conquer machinations for eons.. most folks were too busy trying to survive or watching dancing with the stars


The bottom line is a great one from a great chief.." any natiuon who will harm one group will eventually harm all"

face that fact and all the collective karma for all the crimes you accepted towards folks who didn't look like you have no come back to bite you .. C'est la vie, C'est la gar "cest la morte

Originally posted by jimmiec
Given the absolute contempt for government by society today, I see no way for government to ultimately come out on top if a civil war were to erupt. I am sure they are aware of this. Whether or not they decide to chance it is another story. They seldom make good choices. There are politicians on the citizens side as well though. They are the ones screaming about protecting the Constitution.

This is an important point. Your average useful idiot still thinks the government cares about them, but if they start going door to door with anti-gun death squads that will break the spell pretty quickly. This recent DOJ memo shows that they intend to do just that, too, so their contempt for the constitution and the citizens are at an all time high.

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by sajuek

 

I'ts moronic drivel from people that have more guns than they have IQ points.

The same people will argue about all our soldiers getting killed in [insert name of foreign country here], but they want to have these same soldiers lined up in their crosshairs?

Any civil war on American soil would also result in a number of opportunist nations stepping in to "help".
Many a faction would even willfully invite said "help"; entirely ignorant of the cost such "help" would result in.

All in all, for the most part, it's loud mouthed morons that have self marginalized themselves because for whatever reason, they can't seem to live by the same laws that everyone else seems to be quite fine and okay with.

edit on 24-2-2013 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

Ding ding ding ding ding. We have a winner. Sad but true. I fell like the civil war crowd are the same people as the gun nutters, who will call anything they agree with patriotic and 'murican and anything they don't agree with terrorist and un'murican.

reply to post by sajuek


Oh jeez.

This thread title is a classic demonstration of ignorance and lack of comprehension that shockingly isn't just rife amongst the general public but amongst ATS members too.

"Why are Americans deluded into thinking they could win a civil war?"

Of course they'll win a civil war.

By it's very definition Amercians will always win a civil war, you know a CIVIL war amongst two sides of the people - civilians, get it? What you're referring to is a revolutionary uprising, against a tyrranical militaristic government. Completely different thing.

By definition that is not a civil war. And as understanding of the concept is missing in the OP that's where I face palm and walk away....

Jeez, sometimes it's embarrassing to be a member here.

Because Use of military force against the American people that are upholding the constitution wouldn't just be a revolution fought in the streets...it would also be fought in our courthouse. The end all/be all would be the point that the constitution states anyone doing anything that stands in the way of the constitution, should be removed from authority for the people of the USA.
IF it continued beyond our legal systems....well look what all the rebellion has done to slow our progress in other countries....Imagine that number not being thousands, but millions. I do not see the military using scud rockets against its own people, if they did perhaps more people would start siding with the civilian.
You can write all the laws you want on how much people pay in taxes, where they can cross the street and even how much noise they make at their homes....but there are very clear passages in our declaration of our fundamental rights as the free nation of the world of what CANNOT be amended.
Time will tell, but there are millions that "will not go quietly into the night"...

OP show a single instance where the US has beat an insurgent populace in any conflict of major importance anytime in the last 50years. I can not think of one where we won and made history and changed the cultures.

The only time I can think of is WWII and Europe was devestated and Japan still has hot spots. But they had to ruin the entire landscape to do it and we still"occupy" those countries.

If this government finishes shredding the what is left of the Constitution and declares freemen enemies of the stated many of us will have no other choice but to fight back anyway we can. Winning or losing is beside the point. It will become and insurgents' heyday. If US domestic police or military forces start killing civilians all bets are off. Thousands in pockets all over the continent will resist, there will be no other choice. If the powers that be decide to unleash unconventional warfare methods and biologicals it will be further proof of the unfitness to rule and when they are finally held to account they be held tried like Nuremburg.

When and if this government turns on it's populace, we the people, it is no longer fit to rule and must be replaced.

If you decide that you can not stand up for yourself and you play along with the occupiers and the tyrrants then you will suffer the fate of all conspirators and collaborators. That's how the game is played. You will not be spared by them or by those individuals who stand in opposition to them. You will be as expendable as many of us. Being their shill will not protect you. Patriots, traitors and tyrannts often get executed, I'm just stating the historical evidence.

Besides, just think of how many of our current enemies would love to arm and support an "American Insurgency" against the Evil American Empire. Don't think that this is not a possibility and that they would jump at the chance to stick it to America how ever they could. Hell, they probably wouldn't even care who wins just so they could contribute to the mayhem. Besides that after it's all done they would just step up with a new treaty and do business with whoever wins anyway. It's no skin of their back if we start taking whacks at each other.It would just save them some effort and manpower.

Is it really about winning a civil war? or is it about the threat of armed resistance being enough to keep the government in check? (if it were to go all tyrannical and Hitler on our rears)

I just think it's sad, sick and awfully short sighted to be railing against each other when there isn't anyone even close to DC who gives a flying monkey


their disdain for the public is palpable by the policies they make


go ask the collective disabled crowd.. you want to find some cynics we'll be glad to dissuade you from your illsuions