Qur'an a Code for living a good life

reply to post by logical7

Qur'an is basically a Book of spirituality which also gives a code of conduct to establish a society based on that spirituality.
.

I see the Koran as a warning to be mindful of judgement day and the world to come... it is a reminder that life in this world is only temporary and will pass away.

Know that the life of this world is only play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children, as the likeness of vegetation after rain, thereof the growth is pleasing to the tiller; afterwards it dries up and you see it turning yellow; then it becomes straw. But in the Hereafter (there is) a severe torment, and (there is) Forgiveness from God and (His) Good Pleasure, whereas the life of this world is only a deceiving enjoyment."
- Koran 57:20

"Fair in the eyes of men is the love of things they covet: Women and sons; Heaped-up hoards of gold and silver; horses branded (for blood and excellence); and (wealth of) cattle and well-tilled land. Such are the possessions of this world's life; but in nearness to God is the best of the goals (to return to). Say: Shall I give you glad tidings Far better than those? For the righteous are Gardens in nearness to their Lord, with rivers flowing beneath; therein is their eternal home; with companions pure (and holy); and the good pleasure of God. For in God's sight are (all) His servants."
-Koran 3:14-15


Really puts things into perspective.

reply to post by logical7

really perfect. I offer you that show the people of 21th century the scientific points of Koran. if they again say it is written by a man ! all monotheistic religions are from Allah and and all of them are Islam but Quran is not altered like Bible, show them.

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by logical7

 

About the code, did you find anything in OP thats against your code?

By freedom I mean freedom of mind and spirit , religion requires that you give your mind to it .

you are giving mind to everything in your life. you can not escape from it. from media, Pharaohs, ego, breathing, elites ....
giving mind is the main part of life. true freedom is giving mind to only God of monotheistic religions.
we are in need of media, food, sex, ego, clerics,.....! but lets do not worship them. lets do not be a slave of them.
so worshiping the only God, is the true freedom.
we are not that free. we did not choose to come to this world. we are frightened of death but we can not escape it. we can not cure many Illnesses. we can not reach the end of universe !!!
O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of skies, then pass. You will not pass except by a huge power. Quran 55::33
Indeed we are weak.
God is beyond religions.
of course Bible is altered and the main verses are missed or are hidden !
of course there are people who translate or comment about Quran upside down. but at least the main arabic verses are intact and handy. you can find the true Bible in Quran and the gospel of Barnabas which is hidden by Vatican in Quran.
of course there are corrupted clerics of all religions from Judaism to Islam.
but of course there is a first creator. the only Allah(God), you can not deny that !

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

But then most humans are afraid to take the step needed to be a mystic and would rather be on the same level of understanding as their grouping.

even a mystic needs a mentor/guru to guide him/her and the mentor often puts the student at tasks to clean away the ego/self and only then the higher truths can be recognised. Its easy to be a mystic and try reach the truth. Its more difficult to be in the world and do the duties, honour relationships and bonds yet remain connected to the Creator as if only He is the reality/the Truth.
This is taught in islam however not everyone can be capable to achieve it fully but its not ever about achieving, its about keep trying..

No mentor or guru is really needed or previous indoctrination. Only time and a opened mind questioning all that have been taught by both people around and ego self.

Just because you like a mentor to help you do not mean it is needed. But you are right that it is easy being one with everything when that everything is not affecting you or affecting you in a positive way. When being a hermit and disconnected from humanity and connected to the spiritual world it is very easy just being and enjoying god around you.

My views not the truth since I do not know the whole truth.

"Fair in the eyes of men is the love of things they covet: Women and sons; Heaped-up hoards of gold and silver; horses branded (for blood and excellence); and (wealth of) cattle and well-tilled land. Such are the possessions of this world's life; but in nearness to God is the best of the goals (to return to). Say: Shall I give you glad tidings Far better than those? For the righteous are Gardens in nearness to their Lord, with rivers flowing beneath; therein is their eternal home; with companions pure (and holy); and the good pleasure of God. For in God's sight are (all) His servants."
-Koran 3:14-15

I agree that all are meant to be servants. But from my point of view god is also a servant to all creation. It is a symbiotic relationship. Just like it is meant to be.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I would be just fine without a public education of any kind.

.. and you'd be better off for it.


As for the OPs notion that the 'Qu'an is a code for living a good life' ...
Considering how full of MISOGYNY it is .. it certainly isn't 'a good life'
for the women who are forced to live under it's neanderthal-like rules.

No thanks.

reply to post by maes2

so worshiping the only God, is the true freedom.

Worshiping anything does not equal freedom , it equals an acceptance without question of whatever doctrines are associated with the object of worship and a willingness to live your life in accordance with those doctrines .

The only God I acknowledge is Gaia .. the Earth , it gave us life , it sustains us and without it we wouldn't exist .
Gaia requires nothing of me other than I should appreciate its beauty and treat it with respect which I do on a daily basis.... I am not required to worship it nor does it threaten to send me to a bad place if I don't play by its rules .

Originally posted by logical7
the husand does his duty to protect and make the wife feel secure, loved and taken care of and the outcome is a great relationship. I'l choose this anytime!

Yikes! Imams telling men how to properly beat the women in the house ... women who are rape victims being blamed for the rape and being flogged while the rapists gets off ... fathers killing their female children to protect their honor .... women worth less than a man in a court of law .... men being able to have four wives and so the woman is just one of many and easily replaced .... all based on interpretations of Islam. That's what you choose. NO THANKS.

Originally posted by maes2
. I offer you that show the people of 21th century the scientific points of Koran. if they again say it is written by a man !

Definately written by man! The errors of the Qu'ran are too many to even begin to go through.
The 'scientific' and historical errors are strewn throughout. If God (or allah) had written it, there
wouldn't be any errors.

Scientific Errors in the Qu'ran

So the sun sets in murky water?
The moon and sun both orbit the earth?
Meteors are missiles of the devil?
And i think I remember reading something about the devil living in a mans nose ....

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

I see the Koran as a warning to be mindful of judgement day and the world to come... it is a reminder that life in this world is only temporary and will pass away.

sure it is a warning and glad tidings, depends how we take it. It is a witness in favour of believers and a witness against disbelievers. Qur'an itself says this.
It makes a lot of sense, the concepts in Qur'an are undeniable and simple and appeal to the nature of human, if he/she knows its true and then decides to accept then it will bring him/her closer to God but if someone knowingly denys then he/she will be doing an injustice to his/her own nature and go away from God.
Qur'an also has a name Fur'qan meaning the clear divider/seperator of truth and falsehood. Anyone who wants to pick the truth is free to do it and anyone who denies is free to do it but both choices bring their consequences.
You may know all this, just said it for the benifit of those who dont. Thanks a lot for contributing and hope that you continue.

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by logical7

 

really perfect. I offer you that show the people of 21th century the scientific points of Koran. if they again say it is written by a man ! all monotheistic religions are from Allah and and all of them are Islam but Quran is not altered like Bible, show them.

edit on 21-2-2013 by maes2 because: (no reason given)

thanks, and i'l make a thread about what you are suggesting. Its good to have you and Sk0rpi0 join this thread.

Originally posted by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

But then most humans are afraid to take the step needed to be a mystic and would rather be on the same level of understanding as their grouping.

even a mystic needs a mentor/guru to guide him/her and the mentor often puts the student at tasks to clean away the ego/self and only then the higher truths can be recognised. Its easy to be a mystic and try reach the truth. Its more difficult to be in the world and do the duties, honour relationships and bonds yet remain connected to the Creator as if only He is the reality/the Truth.
This is taught in islam however not everyone can be capable to achieve it fully but its not ever about achieving, its about keep trying..

No mentor or guru is really needed or previous indoctrination. Only time and a opened mind questioning all that have been taught by both people around and ego self.

Just because you like a mentor to help you do not mean it is needed. But you are right that it is easy being one with everything when that everything is not affecting you or affecting you in a positive way. When being a hermit and disconnected from humanity and connected to the spiritual world it is very easy just being and enjoying god around you.

My views not the truth since I do not know the whole truth.

i never said that its not possible to connect to God without religion. Anyone who wholeheartedly seeks God will get closer, but if God had intended some other complete way for everyone rather than everyone groping in the dark to find a good way to live then maybe you should check Qur'an, God couldnt just leave humans ignorant, He would reach out to us by something tangible to lead us towards the untangible. Getting more informed never hurts anyway. I'l suggest that you hear Qur'an even though you wouldnt understand arabic and reply to me about how you felt.

reply to post by gortex

you are living under doctrines anyhow. world is itself obeying special laws. life means obeying laws.
you are right religion means obeying some rules.
however they are people who choose to obey laws freely.
no one would send me and you to a bad place. this is our choice.
God does believe in freedom far more than Secularism and Imperialism ! he does not punish anyone who is not aware of it's laws. he is always ready for forgiveness. he does not oblige anyone to follow it's laws unless he has sent a great proof for them already.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by logical7
the husand does his duty to protect and make the wife feel secure, loved and taken care of and the outcome is a great relationship. I'l choose this anytime!

Yikes! Imams telling men how to properly beat the women in the house ... women who are rape victims being blamed for the rape and being flogged while the rapists gets off ... fathers killing their female children to protect their honor .... women worth less than a man in a court of law .... men being able to have four wives and so the woman is just one of many and easily replaced .... all based on interpretations of Islam. That's what you choose. NO THANKS.

Originally posted by maes2
. I offer you that show the people of 21th century the scientific points of Koran. if they again say it is written by a man !

Definately written by man! The errors of the Qu'ran are too many to even begin to go through.
The 'scientific' and historical errors are strewn throughout. If God (or allah) had written it, there
wouldn't be any errors.

Scientific Errors in the Qu'ran

So the sun sets in murky water?
The moon and sun both orbit the earth?
Meteors are missiles of the devil?
And i think I remember reading something about the devil living in a mans nose ....

maybe what you told is true or maybe what i said is true, we can find out by simply observing muslims around you. Do you know any muslims?
If you want to judge a religion based on what reports you hear from an anti-islamic site and then generalise it on 2 billion people then its your right. I honestly think that even you dont believe that ALL muslim women are staying in islam and with their husbands by force!!
Try and have a talk with a hijab wearing muslimah and you'l be surprised by her and see that it was not as you thought.
Regarding scientific miracles in Qur'an, i'l suggest that you believe anything after examining evidence on both sides otherwise you are just seeking to reinforce your own beliefs and assumptions.
Thanks for contributing, looking forward to some positive querries from you.

reply to post by logical7

yes spirituality is necessary along with the code or its just a skeleton of what it was supposed to be. However maybe you'l agree that the code can also help spark and nurture spirituality by putting beliefs into everyday actions and providing a discipline. Allah is not narrow minded but its arrogant to assume that following a code is below one's spirituality, because spirituality increases humility.

What good are beliefs which you can not for certain say they are truthful ? Does it make you somehow a better person just for having faith in God...a God in which you can not say for certain that exists.

Maybe the Budhists got it right, or the Hindus, or Christians...or none of them. Each preaches theirs is the right God. All other religions are "pagan". But since none of them can really prove one way or the other, what than makes you so happy to believe in something that might not be true at all ?

What is more important...? having faith or being truthful ?

Would you, OP, if given chance by some "entity" or whatever, chose to be given the worlds knowledge...the truth of the world...but if that truth would potentially separate you from the God you know today...(let that be Allah for the sake of argument)....would you want that truth ? or do you "need" God at all cost?

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by logical7

 

yes spirituality is necessary along with the code or its just a skeleton of what it was supposed to be. However maybe you'l agree that the code can also help spark and nurture spirituality by putting beliefs into everyday actions and providing a discipline. Allah is not narrow minded but its arrogant to assume that following a code is below one's spirituality, because spirituality increases humility.

What good are beliefs which you can not for certain say they are truthful ? Does it make you somehow a better person just for having faith in God...a God in which you can not say for certain that exists.

Maybe the Budhists got it right, or the Hindus, or Christians...or none of them. Each preaches theirs is the right God. All other religions are "pagan". But since none of them can really prove one way or the other, what than makes you so happy to believe in something that might not be true at all ?

What is more important...? having faith or being truthful ?

Would you, OP, if given chance by some "entity" or whatever, chose to be given the worlds knowledge...the truth of the world...but if that truth would potentially separate you from the God you know today...(let that be Allah for the sake of argument)....would you want that truth ? or do you "need" God at all cost?

i would ofcourse chose the TRUTH whatever that would be.
The question i have for you is how to know that a truth is a truth?
How do i trust the 'entity' just on its own words?
The only way that i can figure out and which i will accept is that the 'entity' proves its truthfulness by proving/predicting the tangible future truths and be consistent in it and then i may accept the unknow truths given by it.
Till now only Allah did it in Qur'an
here's what Allah says

41:53) We will show them Our manifest signs (proofs) in the horizons of the
universe and within their own selves,
until it will become manifest to them
that it (the Qur'ān) is indeed the truth. Is it not sufficient (as proof) that your Lord is a witness over all
things (just as He is witnessed to by all things)?

so will you look into this claim unbiasedly and accept whatever comes next?

Just like every single book written but so called Prophets, the Qu'ran is just another collection of fiction, makes for great reading has some interesting parts, a LOT of it is identical to the Jewish Talmud, (as is the Bible) and a lot of those stories have their roots in much older religious practices.

The Epic of Gilgamesh comes to mind, as does the Story of Amun Ra and also Horus, Set, where the Jews started and were part of the Egyptian rule area, the Egyptian mythos became interwoven with Sumerian, Persian (If Xerxes was still alive he would be railing against Mohammed, Jesus and whomever) Greek, Roman, and other influances to make the "big three" we have today.

So what makes the Qu'Ran any more "true" than the Bible or the Talmud.... Nothing.

And I'm honest, I follow a religious belief, it's not perfect, but at least it's not so strict that it's overbearing. I am Shinto, like thousands of years of my family before me, so it's more tradition than I think it's absolute truth.

There's the problem, and why we have so many fights over who's God is better, noone can sit down and realize that they all came from the same place in the beginning...

So that is truth, care to challenge that? You can't because it is the one constant across the board..

reply to post by logical7


reply to post by logical7


I’ve outlined my thoughts on how to proceed and broke it down into the steps found below:


1) Remove your cranium from your rectum.
2) It’s your book. If you cannot all get together and agree on what constitutes blasphemy worthy of death, then shut up about it.
3) Respect the freedom of speech; regardless of what it mocks or who. A world where some concepts are off limits to criticism is not a truly free world.
4) Don’t over look the parts that tell the believer to expunge the heathen from the earth. Not cool.
5) Stop blaming secularism for decidedly religious phenomena. It has continued this way with or without secularism for thousands of years. Don’t ignore the history of religion.
6) Instead of convincing the rest of the world that your text stands for natural law (which it doesn’t) try convincing the extremist that it doesn’t stand for their extreme human interpretation (which it does).
7) In reference to natural law (see step 6), realize that what you are referring to in most cases is not law of nature or even the law of human nature but law based on subjective morality built on a sliding scale of ethical principles that change (or at least should) from eon to eon. You are confusing Allah's Law with natural law. Although the two may intersect, they are not the same.
8) Remove your cranium from your rectum.
9) Show me one case where a Humanist burned down an orphanage.
10) Read “The End of Faith” by Sam Harris if you haven’t yet.


Thanks again for the thread.

reply to post by vkey08

And I'm honest, I follow a religious belief, it's not perfect, but at least it's not so strict that it's overbearing. I am Shinto, like thousands of years of my family before me, so it's more tradition than I think it's absolute truth.

well Qur'an talks about this

Chapter 2 Surah Baqarah verse 170-171: When it is said to them, “Follow the Commands that Allah has sent down”, they reply, “We will follow only what we found our forefathers practicing.” Well, will they go on following their forefathers even though they did not use common sense and did not find the Right Way! The mental condition of those who rejected the way of Allah may be likened to that of the cattle whom the shepherd calls but they hear nothing except the sound of shouts and cries. They are deaf, they are dumb, they are blind; therefore they do not understand anything.

[5:104] When they are told, "Come to what GOD has revealed, and to the messenger," they say, "What we found
our parents doing is sufficient for us." What if their parents knew nothing, and were not guided?

Surah 43- ("Ah!") they say, "If it had been the will of (Allah) Most Gracious, we should not have worshipped such (deities)!" Of that they have no knowledge! they do nothing but lie! (20)
What! have We given them a Book before this, to which they are holding fast? (21)
Nay! they say: "We found our fathers following a certain religion, and we do guide ourselves by their footsteps." (22)
Just in the same way, whenever We sent a Warner before thee to any people, the wealthy ones among them said: "We found our fathers following a certain religion, and we will certainly follow in their footsteps." (23)
He said: "What! Even if I brought you better guidance than that which ye found your fathers following?" They said: "For us, we deny that ye (prophets) are sent (on a mission at all)."

Originally posted by Philodemus
reply to post by logical7

 

reply to post by logical7

 

I’ve outlined my thoughts on how to proceed and broke it down into the steps found below:


1) Remove your cranium from your rectum.
2) It’s your book. If you cannot all get together and agree on what constitutes blasphemy worthy of death, then shut up about it.
3) Respect the freedom of speech; regardless of what it mocks or who. A world where some concepts are off limits to criticism is not a truly free world.
4) Don’t over look the parts that tell the believer to expunge the heathen from the earth. Not cool.
5) Stop blaming secularism for decidedly religious phenomena. It has continued this way with or without secularism for thousands of years. Don’t ignore the history of religion.
6) Instead of convincing the rest of the world that your text stands for natural law (which it doesn’t) try convincing the extremist that it doesn’t stand for their extreme human interpretation (which it does).
7) In reference to natural law (see step 6), realize that what you are referring to in most cases is not law of nature or even the law of human nature but law based on subjective morality built on a sliding scale of ethical principles that change (or at least should) from eon to eon. You are confusing Allah's Law with natural law. Although the two may intersect, they are not the same.
8) Remove your cranium from your rectum.
9) Show me one case where a Humanist burned down an orphanage.
10) Read “The End of Faith” by Sam Harris if you haven’t yet.


Thanks again for the thread.

whatever your other faults, what offends me the most is your lack of creative thinking, nothing is as boring as seeing a point being repeated again just to increase the number of points.
A humanist is not labeled for his belief when he/she commits a crime.
Why dont you show me that humanists/non-religionists have not committed any crimes ever.
Whats the affilitation of shooters targeting school kids? If it was muslim then i doubt the MSM would have kept silent about it, so if its muslim then its a terrorist but if an atheist then just a lone psychopath. It never ceases to amaze me when i see this kind of hypocrisy.

reply to post by logical7


Wow i thought it would take more posts before you started the Allah is the only God and any other religion is crud stuff, see how "tolerant" that book is?

You made my point for me..