I think we're Alone Now

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
My point is that you are assuming we are incapable of being noticed often due to the vastness of space and how we interpret the speed of light or radio waves, or whatever. This is a limitation in thinking.

We do not know what means ET uses to discern life, irrespective of distance, as we know it. We don't know if they time travel, bend space and time, use dimensional portals, use intelligent drones to scour the multiverses, use technology we can't fathom to detect "heartbeats" in multiple galaxies, etc.

We need to start thinking outside of the box when dealing with this issue.

Originally posted by Jaellma
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

My point is that you are assuming we are incapable of being noticed often due to the vastness of space and how we interpret the speed of light or radio waves, or whatever. This is a limitation in thinking.

We do not know what means ET uses to discern life, irrespective of distance, as we know it. We don't know if they time travel, bend space and time, use dimensional portals, use intelligent drones to scour the multiverses, use technology we can't fathom to detect "heartbeats" in multiple galaxies, etc.

We need to start thinking outside of the box when dealing with this issue.

Right. We could speculate. That's fine.

I admit that we don't know everything. Obviously. However, what we DO know is all we have to work with at the moment. So, based on what we know, it would be very difficult for any ET to know that the Earth is home to a "relatively" technological civilization.

Based on what we know (which again is all we can honestly debate here), an alien civilization a mere 1000 light years away (which is only 1% of the way across the galaxy) who can detect that our planet exists, through whichever means they use to do so, would only be able to detect what Earth was like 1000 years ago.


You can pull out the "anything is possible so think outside the box" card, but that would sort of put an end to almost any discussion on the subject. I suppose if anything is possible, and ET knows humans are here, and ETs have the ability to visit earth, then we come full circle back to the OP's original question of...:

..."So where are they?"

This angers me greatly.

I have SEEN ONE. Up close. It angers me to no end that I don't have evidence though. I see what you're saying, but I'm here to, flat out, tell you that you're wrong. DEAD WRONG.

Unless, on Earth, we've mastered warp physics and silent anti-gravtiy devices. Because the UFO I saw had both. It also had the ability to project a green beam with ZERO residual light. It was stone cold silent and tumbled around on it's axis. It also looked like liquid, though maintained the shape of a pyramid. Even at massive speed.

You'll never convince me they don't exist and you're doing a complete injustice to yourself by doing so. I hope to GOD you see one one day, I really do. Then you'll stop this cynicism, telling us we're 'seeing things' is well insulting! Some of us are intelligent enough to know what we're looking at.

If mine was 'human' then they're based in space. This thing shot straight up, at speeds faster than I could see (From stationary) into space.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

However, in the specific case that "Libertygal" mentioned -- i.e.,
that ETs may take notice of the Earth among the other 100s of
billions of planets in the galaxy because she thinks our
"specialness" may make them take notice. However, I'm not
sure how they would know we were special (assuming that we
are special. I don't think we are, personally) just from analyzing
the spectrogram of our atmosphere.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

I was not implying our "specialness" drew any attention. Our discovery probably was most likely coincidental. I don't think anything we did, or our radio signals, or anything related to humanity brought them here.

I would more be willing to speculate that liquid water, the design and make-up of our atmosphere, or perhaps even mineable minerals may have drawn first attention. It could have even been one of our sister planets for reasons we are yet unaware of, and finding us was coincidental. Our planet certainly stands out amongst our own just in unique looks alone.

What I was trying to say, and thought that I made explicitly clear was that the need to discover the origins of ones' beginnings would seem to be a universal desire, regardless of the origin or age of the species.

Because, based on only the knowledge we have, we believe life began from some primordial soup, that conditions were just right, and things started evolving, crawling from the sea, evolving more, then walking, a bit more evolving, then boom, mankind.

It is our quest in going to space, to find the origins of life, to gain glimpses back in time, to find the links to our beginning, proof to our theories, and utmost - confirmation that we are not alone - though all common sense leans in that direction. We continuosly strive to go back in time to the Big Bang, to understand how life, how we, got here. I think this is universal among all intelligent species, and is what drives the same space exploration and chance discoveries of other civilizations.

Is it only a human trait to reach out to find others? I don't think so. Almost all species on earth reach out for companionship, most life on earth does not survive in isolation. Why would we expect life elsewhere to do so? Life needs other life to reproduce and to thrive. Again, I think these needs surpass humanity, and are universal.

If we were to find a civilization several thousands of years behind our evolution, say on Mars, would you expect that we would observe and learn, or interfere? Would this mean we found them because of their "specialness" or because we were exploring Mars looking for signs of life? Observing something once you find it does not lend to how or why you found it.

reply to post by Joneselius


But, don't you really have mixed emotions about it? I know I do. I mean, saying, "I hope you seeone one day!" to me is almost like a curse anymore. I really don't wish it on my worst enemy, because it is really miserable to live with.

I know misery loves company and all of that, but adding someone else to the list isn't going to bring anyone any closer to the answers.

I do understand your anger, I used to feel it too, but then when I looked at what it did to me and my life, I decided that it would be mean to wish it on others. I was talking to my husband one night, and he said, "I hope I get to see something like you did one day.", to which I quickly responded, "Be careful what you wish for, it is not all it is cracked up to be."

Then, if I didn't have him, I would have no one.

Sometimes, I hope for answers, of course, like everyone. But I rarely curse someone with having to go through what genuine experiencers have to. It is lifechanging in ways most people don't care to imagine, nor to understand, which is why I understand your anger.

Originally posted by Libertygal
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

However, in the specific case that "Libertygal" mentioned -- i.e.,
that ETs may take notice of the Earth among the other 100s of
billions of planets in the galaxy because she thinks our
"specialness" may make them take notice. However, I'm not
sure how they would know we were special (assuming that we
are special. I don't think we are, personally) just from analyzing
the spectrogram of our atmosphere.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

I was not implying our "specialness" drew any attention. Our discovery probably was most likely coincidental. I don't think anything we did, or our radio signals, or anything related to humanity brought them here.

I would more be willing to speculate that liquid water, the design and make-up of our atmosphere, or perhaps even mineable minerals may have drawn first attention. It could have even been one of our sister planets for reasons we are yet unaware of, and finding us was coincidental. Our planet certainly stands out amongst our own just in unique looks alone....

Okay -- but I'm more of the opinion that the Earth is not that physically special nor unique. I think there are a great number of planets with physical traits similar to Earth's (rocky, with water and a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere), considering there are 100s of billions of planets in the galaxy.

I don't think the Earth is physically unique at all; there may be millions (100s of millions?) of Earth-like planets.

It sounds like you may be of the opposite opinion, and that the specific physical characteristics of Earth would be unique enough to draw aliens here.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Or, perhaps H3 on the moon, or gold, or any unlimited number of variables we can not only not imagine, but perhaps have yet to discover ourselves. Perhaps it is our use of nuclear power. Perhaps, perhaps.

Perhaps there IS something unique about us, or Earth. I don't understand the need to place such limitations on us and the planet, when in reality, we know only enough to know we know so little? It brings to mind a saying, "You know just enough to be dangerous."

For all we know, there are scout ships that do nothing but explore solar systems and report back signs of life for further exploration. Or, there are mining ships that go from one solar system to another mining God knows what for God knows what. If other species, as they seem to have done, have mastered space travel, then jumping through the space/time continuum is nothing to them.

Point being, you seem to be placing human limitations on beings that are clearly not human, or if human, are obviously many years more advanced than we are.

It is akin to going back to the 1800's, were you to have the capability, and telling them they will never have anything better than horse and carriage, because to think so would be thinking they were somehow special.

I am not willing to box any life into a corner and deny it the possibility to become more capable than I can imagine, simply because I cannot imagine it.

reply to post by Libertygal


Of course I do! I have mixed emotions about a lot of things since it happened. It practically, as you said, ruined my life! I couldn't even function in any sort of social context for about 4 months afterwards - I'd just sit in my room and procrastinate on what I'd seen. I went over it in my head, again and again, trying to justify it to a real world experience. I failed and it opened up a massive can of worms for me.

The emotions I felt at the time were astounding. I couldn't move. I could walk around and stuff because I went back into my house a few times, once to splash myself with water. But I couldn't think. I was transfixed. Utterly defenceless. It's only when I think back that I realise that! For example, I have NO IDEA what it was doing shooting a green beam into our local park, it could of been an abduction! Hindsight is your enemy in those circumstances.

It led me into the new age and to a dark, dark period of my life. Lonely and depressed all the time because no one wanted to know or listen. Those that did took it with a grain of salt, passed me off like some ADHD child trying to get attention. Or accusing me of 'over-exaggerating' claims to give my story more merit. It was driving me literally insane!

Imagine my surprise when I posted my story on this site to have it scrutinized in EXACTLY the same way! People just do NOT understand what it means to see one up close. They don't. I'll say that 'till I die. But overall I agree with what you said. It can, sometimes, change your life for the worse. I've come to believe they're demonic anyway, meaning I feel worse about it than I ever did!

Maybe only some people are meant to see what we've seen...... Hopefully they'll see it one day and have the critical thought to UNDERSTAND that their Earth centred ego is void, and shattered.

Edit: When I say I couldn't move I mean that I couldn't move away from it for long, I was stunned, astonished, paralysed with awe.

reply to post by Libertygal


I just think the galaxy is a big place -- a big place even to another intelligent ET species who lives here -- and the Earth is so tiny.

Again, I go back to my analogy of a person on a tiny desert island. Sure -- we have ships and planes and even satellites looking down. However, even with those things, we could totally overlook that tiny island and the guy who lives there. We may know the island is there, but have no reason to further explore it.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Maybe it isnt the Earth that's special but people. Just suppose that intelligence and aggression are a rare combination. Even on Earth this appears to be true-apex predators generally survive by having better weapons (eg a Sharks teeth)-they dont need intelligence. By contrast, intelligent non primates such as dolphins or wolves tend to rely on intelligence and team work rather than weaponry or aggression.
If that were the case, Aliens could be watching us because we are a potential threat if we ever develop interstellar travel. If they are genetic pacifists, they couldnt destroy us but could be infiltrating our society and stopping research that may lead to interstellar travel. Such Aliens would obviously try to cover up their presence which would account for lack of hard evidence.
I'm not saying this is the case-i'm simply posting it as a thought experiment to see what people think.

We exist, only because we can sense it... If we did not have senses, we would not be alive, this is the portion of our being that is conscious, and keeps our senses functioning human body etc.

As i said before last night, what we think is real or exists is only the things we can sense, WITHIN, or senses....


So as far as being alone in what it is we understand and will ever know to understand,


I can see the tumble weed...

I am willing to bet the farm thou we are being observed, yet we are alone, if that makes any sense to any of you..

Very good constructive post, good to see intellect alive on ATS...

I really truly deeply wish that soon no one will believe in UFOs anymore. So that all those tasteless hoaxers lose interest and stop wasting their and everyone else's time with foolish pics and videos. That being abducted by aliens won't be "cool" anymore and people will stop making stories just to feel special and chosen. I hope all those hundreds of UFO/ET blogs and websites with stupid articles and fabricated news, forums full of fake researchers and hypnotists, star-seeds, alien mutants, melonhead hybrids, and plain idiots just get lost, gone, out of fashion, out of the system. That the ptb won't need the UFO code anymore to track and cover their toys and games. And a lot of so called UFO researchers get a real job. So, that finally we can start researching the phenomena.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


You sure aren't the team player we were hoping for. You quit and gave up before the damn kick off.
There are some fantastic threads right here that display enough evidence that something is happening. What that something it has yet to be determined, but too many credible people have seen too many unidentified things for it to be nothing.

My guess is a lot if not most of what is seen is military, but there are things that don't add up, and they make it stay interesting to those who refuse to quit just because of a little lack of evidence. Dare I say....faith?

Originally posted by Libertygal
reply to post by Joneselius

 

But, don't you really have mixed emotions about it? I know I do. I mean, saying, "I hope you seeone one day!" to me is almost like a curse anymore. I really don't wish it on my worst enemy, because it is really miserable to live with.

I know misery loves company and all of that, but adding someone else to the list isn't going to bring anyone any closer to the answers.

I do understand your anger, I used to feel it too, but then when I looked at what it did to me and my life, I decided that it would be mean to wish it on others. I was talking to my husband one night, and he said, "I hope I get to see something like you did one day.", to which I quickly responded, "Be careful what you wish for, it is not all it is cracked up to be."

Then, if I didn't have him, I would have no one.

Sometimes, I hope for answers, of course, like everyone. But I rarely curse someone with having to go through what genuine experiencers have to. It is lifechanging in ways most people don't care to imagine, nor to understand, which is why I understand your anger.

edit on 19-2-2013 by Libertygal because: (no reason given)

His response to this thread = great
Your response to him = perfect

-----

But I gotta say, in regards to it being mean to wish someone could see a glimpse of the "unknown".... It's really not. It's the biggest favor, ever - assuming your wish caused them to see something.
Sure, you go through transitions... Fear, doubt of your sanity, ultimate humility. But these are good things, when looking at the end result.
We *know* something is going on. Belief? Completely irrelevant.

These threads are a dime a dozen. People get together and write up their paragraphs regarding their own personal skepticism towards this phenomena. I used to shake my head at these threads, now I realize it's just the way people wrap their head around such things... Everyone is on a different level of 'understanding'.... It's good that people speak on this phenomena, rather than not at all --- this way it won't have a total heart attack when and if they do happen to have their first "high strange event".

Originally posted by Flavian
However, as it will be an awfully long time (if ever) before we have the technology to explore such vast distances, we may as well be alone.

Yeah, you gotta wonder that even if you accept the idea that there are probably aliens out there somewhere, if they are so incredibly far away that we'll never have any real proof of them or contact with them, what's the difference between that and them not existing in the first place? Who cares? Finding some kind of signal from them would at least be an intellectual curiosity. But hypothetical aliens are just the same as non-existent aliens in my book.

reply to post by stiver
I guess that means you are calling me a liar, also. I have witnessed on 2 separate incidents what I believed to be unidentified aerial phenomena. In both incidents, there were other sane, sober and fairly intelligent people with me, who also witnessed it.

So, are you still brave enough to call me a liar???

No, we're definitely not alone. Now, whether these things are ET, inter-dimensional, spiritual, or something native to Earth, I don't know, but there is definitely some non-human phenomenon occurring.

reply to post by CudiTheKid


Of course, they could be time traveling humans as well.

Come back to delicately alter mankind's' destiny.

I hope that one day we see awesome, convincing, near-indisputable video proof of alien spacecraft and/or aliens themselves. Until then, consider me hoaxed out.

Originally posted by chunder

When mankind has already sent a physical machine outside of it's own solar system then I would say that with almost absolute certainty if sentient life exists elsewhere in the universe it has probably passed the point where it is capable of doing that, and given a few million years more development perhaps even of manning it.

This is a non-sequitur. Just because with current technology we are sending machines out of our solar system, does not mean that we will develop the fantasies of science-fiction given a sufficient amount of time. The laws of physics do not change as a function of time; they are independent of time. Conservation of momentum and the laws of relativity are reasons why interstellar travel will always remain a fantasy. Hence, a civilization millions of years more advanced than us will still be bound by the laws of physics.

Originally posted by chunderPlease remember the distinction between personal opinion and fact.

I think you're confused. It is scientific fact that aliens, if they exist, would never have the technology to leave their solar system. It is an opinion (a delusional one at that) to think after sufficient amount of time that a civilization will figure out faster-than-light travel, reaction-less drives, free-energy, etc.