Independent Study Proves Guns Don’t Kill People *Shocking Evidence

reply to post by seabag


To back up the point that I and another member made about violent crime between countries not being comparable....


In the US violent crime consists of only four offence's.... murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

FBI Violent Crime


Compared to England and Wale's that has a HUGE list of offence's it classifies as violent crimes and as such show up in the violent crime stats for England and Wales. Which include ALL of the four above and a further extensive list that includes possession of weapon's, harassment, ALL sexual crime's not just rape, conduct that is likely to cause fear alarm or distress, child neglect and cruelty...and many many more crimes, it is a long list!

The WHOLE of section 5.1 that deal's with violent crime in this official document that I shall post a link for next should give you a good idea of how big the difference's are between US and England and Wales reporting of violent crime and the kind of crimes that show up in England and Wales violent crime statistic's.
As you can see it's clear that violent crime statistics in the US and England and Wales are not comparable because they don't include the same list of crimes.

User Guide To Home Office Crime Statistic's

Again I don't come with any argument that gun's should be taken away from the American people......but it is important to know what you are comparing when looking at a graph or quoting statistic's otherwise it lead's to ignorance.

Click here for more information.

Guns do kill people, they are designed just for that, and that only.

Name another use for a gun?

Guns are an invention that has killed millions of people, don't kid yourself.

reply to post by starfoxxx

The op has created an experiment and with that results were found that even though multiple loaded guns were left around did not lead to one single problem...

Well even if we agree to go on with this umm "experiment"....it has flaws... where are the typical 5 yrs old near loaded guns? when owners leave them unsupervised and unlocked? Where is the mentally challenged kid?

The problems normally happens, where kids take the parents gun and shoots themselves or others..or a mentally challenged kid gets access to guns and goes on a killing spree.. and gun owners are against putting such control on guns, which would prevent such incidents.

edit: it is not always "criminals" that are behind the death of the innocent, its usually another law abiding citizen.

Originally posted by liverlad

Name another use for a gun?

Guns are an invention that has killed millions of people, don't kid yourself.

Skeet shooting... Also before guns were invented millions of people were killed by mid-evil times sword, battle axes, sickles, and even the bow and arrow.... BEFORE all that the cavemen used baseball bat like clubs to kill each other with. i would much rather be shot to death then stabbed or beaten with a club sorry logical fail.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by luciddream

 

I could sit here an take pot shots at the anti gun crowds "intelligence" don't really have to as current events speak for themselves.

The people make it easier for the criminals to do their crime.

When they support gun laws that created gun free zone they do indeed make it easier for a criminal to commit a crime.

Less gun/strict control = less gun related crime, its logic.

That logic is flawed as Chicago and other cities,and states disprove that.

edit on 16-2-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

just to play devils advocate what about hawaii..pretty much same rules as canada..and only 1 firearm murder in 2011..and hawaii has the worst crystal meth problem in any state
anyway its true.. guns dont kill people..bullets do

Originally posted by paraphi
This is a bit of a silly premise. Guns don’t kill people if they are sitting about doing nothing, unless you trip over it and fall down the stairs. However, guns do kill people, whether the firearm is discharged in anger or accidentally.

Leaving guns around may be a clever experiment, but c. 200 children a year die in the US through firearm accidents – 606 accidental deaths for all ages in 2010.

Furthermore there are c. 10,000 homicides per year in the US caused by firearms, versus c. 40 on the UK.

Guns therefore do kill people when the trigger is squeezed.

Regards

Uh...yeah when a person is operating the gun. The point of this thread is to show how stupid it is to say "guns kill people". But if there is no people around oddly the gun doesnt hurt anyone.
No matter what is used to kill, it always be people killing people ,and people are responsable for there actions not there weapon of choice.

reply to post by luciddream

This thread shows the average intelligence of a rabid gun owners lol...

It brings a bad name to "research" or "comparison". Something the gun owners have trouble understanding..

This post shows the average intelligence of the anti-gun crowd who can’t recognize the difference between satire and reporting. I bet you think Stephen Colbert is real, too.

I see people tossing "Law aiding citizen" around.. all the mass murderers were law abiding citizen at one point too, that you are trying to protect. What if the average law abiding citizen all of sudden turns into a criminal(due to personal reason)? oh right! at that point we can divert the attention by blaming pharmaceuticals and ultra government black projects...

If you don’t see a distinction then I hereby declare you a felon!

You might be living in a fantasy land thinking all gun owners are responsible people who keep their inner instinct hidden and under control.

Who said that?

Sounds like a strawman to me!

Less gun/strict control = less gun related crime, its logic.

Check other countries with no gun or are you gonna pull up other crime statics saying "hey look crime.. happens.."... compare apples and apples, not apples and watermelon.

If you have a point that you’d like to back up with stats then DO SHARE. I won’t just take your word for it!

Originally posted by starfoxxx

Originally posted by liverlad
Guns do kill people, they are designed just for that, and that only.

Name another use for a gun?

Guns are an invention that has killed millions of people, don't kid yourself.

Skeet shooting... Also before guns were invented millions of people were killed my midevil times swords and crusades.... i would much rather be shot to death then stabbed sorry logical fail

How is it a logical fail?

Guns are desgined to kill people, and to kill people only. The gun was invented with killing people in mind, and only that. Are you saying that is false? Also, yes swords killed many people as that's what they were designed to do, although they wasn't very effictive, hence the invetion of the gun, which could kill people much easier.

Guns don't kill people! That has got the be the most bul# phrase ever invented, anyone who believes that is insane.

S&F, excellent.

and

I just better shut up or I will get banned.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Well it's a good thing I'm 'Merikan then eh?

Damned ‘Merikans!

I’m shocked that our second amendment rights would be frowned upon in UK; the place where people allowed their government to neuter them long ago.

You can’t miss what you’ve never had, people. Move along…nothing to see here.

reply to post by vonclod


Yes Hawaii is such a beacon of peace and love

www.usa.com...

www.hawaii247.com...

Originally posted by Logos23
reply to post by seabag

 

To back up the point that I and another member made about violent crime between countries not being comparable....


In the US violent crime consists of only four offence's.... murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

FBI Violent Crime


Compared to England and Wale's that has a HUGE list of offence's it classifies as violent crimes and as such show up in the violent crime stats for England and Wales. Which include ALL of the four above and a further extensive list that includes possession of weapon's, harassment, ALL sexual crime's not just rape, conduct that is likely to cause fear alarm or distress, child neglect and cruelty...and many many more crimes, it is a long list!

The WHOLE of section 5.1 that deal's with violent crime in this official document that I shall post a link for next should give you a good idea of how big the difference's are between US and England and Wales reporting of violent crime and the kind of crimes that show up in England and Wales violent crime statistic's.
As you can see it's clear that violent crime statistics in the US and England and Wales are not comparable because they don't include the same list of crimes.

User Guide To Home Office Crime Statistic's

Again I don't come with any argument that gun's should be taken away from the American people......but it is important to know what you are comparing when looking at a graph or quoting statistic's otherwise it lead's to ignorance.

The stats I cited on homicides was a UN STUDY.

I'm pretty sure the UN understands the distinction.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by seabag

 

True in this instance you did prove that under those circumstances guns don’t kill people, unless someone was to pick it up and shoot you in the face your hypothesis was always going to be correct.

Next time try replicating those results by leaving a loaded gun in the cafeteria of a supermax prison and tell my if the results are replicated.

So true,
This has to be the most self fulfilling thread I have ever seen, and far from intelligent. I sincerely hope a mod will pull it soon, but that's up to them. Put it a different way, did the OP get a proof positive from any of the gun manufacturers, that a gun could not fire spontaneously, I don't think so, (the proof positive, that is) that would leave them open to all sorts of stuff, real or imagined.

reply to post by luciddream


Sure, let's look at England (and several other EU countries)

A) Guns were criminalized, people surrendered their weapons and disarm;
B) Then someone in the Government decides that the sickly and old are too expensive to medically treat;
C) Government creates voluntary "Death Pathway," then starts to use it w/o permission more and more;
D) People get really mad and write angry letters and yell in groups;
E)

Huh?

That was so poorly thought out and delivered it barely deserves a comeback. But.

I have never killed a PERSON with my guns, but I have dropped a lot of game.

Buh bye now.

Originally posted by liverlad
Guns do kill people, they are designed just for that, and that only.

Name another use for a gun?

Guns are an invention that has killed millions of people, don't kid yourself.

reply to post by neo96

crime is crime true enough but you will notice the murder rate is 1.8 per 100,000 in hawaii and as for the rest of the u.s. its 4.8 per 100,000..thats a pretty big difference..no?

reply to post by vonclod


There are 1+million people living in Hawaii comparing the Conus with significantly larger populations doesn't fly.

If I walk up to you and strangle you to death, what killed you?

I did.

If I walk up and beat you to death with my bare hands, what killed you?

I did.

If I run you down with my car, what killed you?

I did.

If I beat you to death with a blunt object, what killed you?

I did.

If I stab you to death with a knife, what killed you?

I did.

If I strangle you to death with a rope, what killed you?

I did.

If I shoot you to death, what killed you?

The gun.

Originally posted by gigaherc
reply to post by seabag

 

Naive and weak populism at best, sprinkled with ignorance - this is your post my dear Sir.

Stating the obvious in funny (mainly to yourself) way and delivering your statement in hammy convoluted way does not change the fact that people having less guns equals less people killed with guns.

your absolutely right!

it means more people killed with knives, bats and firebombs.

....oh wait no it doesn't either, i forgot the FBI study and the australian government study showed gun violence, and violent crime goes up as well as the others when guns are in ban.

Areas with more guns per capita and less restrictions have statistically less violent and gun related crime, but those FACTS go against the cuddly MSM fairy tales...

oh dear....what should we do?