Independent Study Proves Guns Don’t Kill People *Shocking Evidence

reply to post by SimonPeter


Just asking because im not sure isnt that learned zion thing just a forgery and hoax. thought i read that somewhere.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Mike.Ockizard

 

Cmon, it's post like that I dont understand. I have not heard of any proposed ban on guns. The laws they propose are far less threatening to those that covet their killing devices.

Read the Feinstein bill. There are 150+ guns on the ban list. Read the 94' gun ban. That also banned the sale of many types of firearms. This is exactly how things started in Australia. You're being dishonest if you still claim there's no gun grab attempt at this point.

To answer your question, hypothetically (since what you posted simply is just not really happening), no. If guns were somehow banned outright, I do expect that ammo would no longer be available either (law of supply and demand). That said, over time, the likliehood of the "bad guys" having a gun that actually has ammo would diminish to the point it would be rare and very expensive for a "bad guy" to shoot someone.

That's naive, sir. Drugs are illegal yet they are readily available and billions of dollars per year change hands. As long as there are drugs there will be guns. No law can ever make them disappear. Any attempt (and there is one underway) will only hurt regular folks, not the criminal underworld.

Some responses I've read on this issue really make me question the sanity of people in this world. The fact that some people think the best course of action in response to gun violence is to disarm is mind boggling.

lets not forget to mention that he's been drinking the MSM kool-aid, and thinks that they're trying to specifically ban only automatic weapons....which is clearly not the case...

surprised you didn't catch that..

ETA: let's also not forget that he's completely right.....guns and ammo will disappear in america, because america is the ONLY country in the world that makes guns and ammo...

reply to post by lunatux


and there it is....the often desperately resorted-to argument that gun owners are somehow less civilized, or less intelligent, than the anti-gun minority, simply because we disagree with them....

i was wondering when that ignorant, fallacious argument would show up...i was worried...because they thread just wouldn't be complete without every ignorant, empty-headed, fallacious, cliched, desperate, tired bulls**t argument in the book...

implying we are neanderthals, because we choose to exercise our rights, doesn't make you right...it just makes you look stupid...

Originally posted by Daedalus
reply to post by lunatux

 

and there it is....the often desperately resorted-to argument that gun owners are somehow less civilized, or less intelligent, than the anti-gun minority, simply because we disagree with them....

i was wondering when that ignorant, fallacious argument would show up...i was worried...because they thread just wouldn't be complete without every ignorant, empty-headed, fallacious, cliched, desperate, tired bulls**t argument in the book...

implying we are neanderthals, because we choose to exercise our rights, doesn't make you right...it just makes you look stupid...

edit on 19-2-2013 by Daedalus because: (no reason given)

Come on Daed, everyone knows that the believers in the second amendment don't use Right Guard, because anything less is uncivilized. It would not be a proper "debate" unless they tried to point out the "fact" that we are all beer swilling, unwashed brutes that roam around country roads in rusted pickup trucks emblazoned with the rebel flag, brandishing our evil guns and shooting at anything and everything that moves including the sky above our heads.

You should be ashamed at trying to stifle thier right to point this "fact" out to everyone that will (and won't) listen and believe!

reply to post by Lichter daraus


You must get past the defensive front and read it . The Protocols are claimed by the Jews to be a fraud and you didn't read them for that reason . You suppose that all Jews are devout God worshipers . Thats where you are wrong . Jesus himself in the bible said that they claim to be Jews and are not . They were the sons of Satan .
God said Esau I hated and Jacob I love . They were from the same womb and twins . So God did distinguish between good and bad Jews .
A quick read of the Protocols will soon reveal to you who the authors really are . The writings were found in France and sent to Russia to czar Nicholas . His replacement to the throne was a half Jew and destroyed the reissue of the Protocols and imprisoned the publisher .
Still God did chose the Jews as his chosen people . The fact is that the Jews are carrying out the plan of God where the Global government and Global Money will bring about the Great Tribulation . The Mark of the Beast system can only now be come reality with the Internet . But there must be a Global government for Global money and it will be money on the computer where all physical money will not exist . The Protocols are real they are being religiously followed by the Jews . I can not condemn them because God did will it .Raed them then make up your mind , don't let them be right about the Gentile being stupid and gullable and lead like sheep .

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Mike.Ockizard

 

Read the Feinstein bill. There are 150+ guns on the ban list. Read the 94' gun ban. That also banned the sale of many types of firearms. This is exactly how things started in Australia. You're being dishonest if you still claim there's no gun grab attempt at this point.

Still not an outright ban on all firearms. And banning "150+" refers to specific models. This still leaves around roughly 2200 other models open to purchase. The contention that "guns will be banned" that I hear all the time by gun entusiasts is misleading. As far as "being "dishonest", you are mistaken. I am very sincere. And as soon as I here that guns that have a supposedly valid role in self defense and sport are being outright banned then I will agree that they are banning guns. Until then I think the gun lobby is powerful enough that it wont happen and theres enough people like you that there would be a pretty loud protest. This aint Austrailia by the way (not yet anyway)

That's naive, sir. Drugs are illegal yet they are readily available and billions of dollars per year change hands. As long as there are drugs there will be guns. No law can ever make them disappear. Any attempt (and there is one underway) will only hurt regular folks, not the criminal underworld.

Yes, I agree there will be a black market in the models that get banned. They will come at a high price. People willing to take the risk and have the $ will probably have them. But this happens already With banned weapons. (and drugs). I really dont see a threat to the average person by the criminal underworld. Most gun violence happens as a result of tensions between people or by desperate thugs who more than likely got the gun illegally anyway. Arguing that we will be less safe because you and others like you cannot purchase an automatic weapon with a 30 round clip is well, not realistic.

Some responses I've read on this issue really make me question the sanity of people in this world. The fact that some people think the best course of action in response to gun violence is to disarm is mind boggling.

Perfectly sane here thank you. Just being reasonable. I do get a kick out of both sides of the debate tho. Both sides make extreme statements but the gun lobby really takes the cake. A real play on peoples fear and insecurity.

BTW, Who said the approach to reducing gun violence was to disarm everyone? What supported legislation that has any hope of getting through the GOP (AKA gun supporter) controlled house is being proposed? And who would disagree that taking guns from "normal" people would actually reduce the number of gun deaths? I mean alot of the killings are by regular people with legally obtained guns, or by people who steal the guns from regular people who obtained them legally?

reply to post by Mike.Ockizard


I think you may want to give the Feinstein bill another look, it bans not only the 150 named weapons but also any semi automatic that shares a characteristic with one of the 150 specific named weapons. It also bans any weapon that is capable of using a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds. It also bans any weapon that has the capability of utilizing features such as a folding stock, flash supressor, etc.

You add all that up and it bans most guns in one way or another.

Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Mike.Ockizard

 

Cmon, it's post like that I dont understand. I have not heard of any proposed ban on guns. The laws they propose are far less threatening to those that covet their killing devices.

Read the Feinstein bill. There are 150+ guns on the ban list. Read the 94' gun ban. That also banned the sale of many types of firearms. This is exactly how things started in Australia. You're being dishonest if you still claim there's no gun grab attempt at this point.

To answer your question, hypothetically (since what you posted simply is just not really happening), no. If guns were somehow banned outright, I do expect that ammo would no longer be available either (law of supply and demand). That said, over time, the likliehood of the "bad guys" having a gun that actually has ammo would diminish to the point it would be rare and very expensive for a "bad guy" to shoot someone.

That's naive, sir. Drugs are illegal yet they are readily available and billions of dollars per year change hands. As long as there are drugs there will be guns. No law can ever make them disappear. Any attempt (and there is one underway) will only hurt regular folks, not the criminal underworld.

Some responses I've read on this issue really make me question the sanity of people in this world. The fact that some people think the best course of action in response to gun violence is to disarm is mind boggling.

lets not forget to mention that he's been drinking the MSM kool-aid, and thinks that they're trying to specifically ban only automatic weapons....which is clearly not the case...

surprised you didn't catch that..

ETA: let's also not forget that he's completely right.....guns and ammo will disappear in america, because america is the ONLY country in the world that makes guns and ammo...

edit on 19-2-2013 by Daedalus because: (no reason given)

I'd be the first to admit that I havent read the Feinstein bill. The storys I read about it. The only argument I hear that comes close to making sense is the "slippery slope" argument.

I did read that they want to ban guns that are designed to pump out rounds at a high rate of speed and guns that are designed to be easily concealed. I also read that a big complaint from the gun supporters was that there was no rhyme or reason. So tell me, what models does the bill mention that is being banned for a "bad" reason?

I do not support either side. I was an expert marksman with both handguns and rifles (auto and semi-auto) when I was in the military. Yet I own no gun. Dont feel the need to. If I saw a looming threat then I might get one but for over 50 years I havent seen a threat that warrants the dangers associated with having a firearm in my house. Pure logic IMO.

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77
reply to post by Mike.Ockizard

 

I think you may want to give the Feinstein bill another look, it bans not only the 150 named weapons but also any semi automatic that shares a characteristic with one of the 150 specific named weapons. It also bans any weapon that is capable of using a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds. It also bans any weapon that has the capability of utilizing features such as a folding stock, flash supressor, etc.

You add all that up and it bans most guns in one way or another.

So having a flash supressor and folding stock are useful for... I look at it rationally and due to the sheer numbers of firearms it does not talk abut I cant seea rational argument against banning weaponsthat are designed specifically for killing lots of people or hiding weapons so you could kill people, or making weapons more stealthy (flash supressor) so they can kill people more effectively.

Not really sure what handguns are useful for either. I'm pretty sure someone can come up with a reason. Probably based in fear. Maybe valid but fear based nonetheless.

Would you agree that lifting all restrictions on firearms is a bad idea?

I'd be the first to admit that I havent read the Feinstein bill. The storys I read about it. The only argument I hear that comes close to making sense is the "slippery slope" argument.

I did read that they want to ban guns that are designed to pump out rounds at a high rate of speed and guns that are designed to be easily concealed. I also read that a big complaint from the gun supporters was that there was no rhyme or reason. So tell me, what models does the bill mention that is being banned for a "bad" reason?

I do not support either side. I was an expert marksman with both handguns and rifles (auto and semi-auto) when I was in the military. Yet I own no gun. Dont feel the need to. If I saw a looming threat then I might get one but for over 50 years I havent seen a threat that warrants the dangers associated with having a firearm in my house. Pure logic IMO.

This link breaks down the bill step by step, if you read between the lines it bans every single semi automatic in existance as well as any firearm that has a grip. It bans guns capable of one military characteristic, note capable, as in not only if it has it. Just if it is capable of having one.


Feinstein Bill Analysis

I just saw your question, I do think that what we currently have for regulations is fine, yes. We don't need new laws we need to enforce what we currently have

Originally posted by Mike.Ockizard

I'd be the first to admit that I havent read the Feinstein bill. The storys I read about it. The only argument I hear that comes close to making sense is the "slippery slope" argument.

if you havent even read the bill, or what it bans, why would you comment on it? thats about as silly as passing a bill without reading it (see: "we hafta PASS the bill, to find out what's IN it")

I did read that they want to ban guns that are designed to pump out rounds at a high rate of speed and guns that are designed to be easily concealed. I also read that a big complaint from the gun supporters was that there was no rhyme or reason. So tell me, what models does the bill mention that is being banned for a "bad" reason?

i dont know where you read that, but it is untrue...well, to most sane people...to the gun grabbers, anything more than one round per minute, is a high rate of speed. it's also not about guns that are easy to conceal either, otherwise, pocket pistols, and pretty much every handgun other than the desert eagle would be on the list..and even then, if you're especially tall, you wouldn't be able to have one of those either, because your increased height would make it easy to conceal...you'd be classified as having an "assault body"

there IS NO rhyme or reason to it, because the list is so ridiculous...

i'll give you a couple of examples on the arms end of it...

the Ruger 10/22 "tactical"...it is functionally identical to a regular Ruger 10/22. the only difference is that it has a folding stock, a pistol grip, and the furniture is black...it's still semi-auto, still fires the same .22LR round, still takes the same magazine...it's the same damned gun, but because it's black, its suddenly more dangerous

the AR-15...it's a semi-auto rifle, it's not the select-fire M4, the media makes it out to be...but again, because it's a scary black gun, it's suddenly some kind of evil, automatic death-dealing maniac...the way they talk about it, you'd think just LOOKING at the goddamn thing would kill you...

these two guns are no more dangerous than any other gun, really...there's no rhyme or reason to the list, because the implied intent of the bill is to ban civilians from owning "weapons of war" (which is unconstitutional, by the way), but all they're really doing is going after anything black, and scary-looking, and trying to turn honest citizens, who never hurt anyone, into criminals..

lets talk about accessories, and characteristics...

forward grips...they list a forward grip (and the rest of the features i list here) as a "military" feature/characteristic...just because they're used by soldiers, doesn't mean they're the only ones who need them. a forward grip helps some shooters to maintain better control of the firearm...to maintain accuracy...keeping the weapon under control is not only a safe and responsible thing to do..it's just plain smart...i don't see how they could NOT think they are a good thing..

Compensator...again, another accessory that helps with recoil management, and helps keep the weapon under control...why do they think accuracy and safety are bad?

Pistol grip...why is this even on there?...it's a matter of ergonomics...pistol grips are just more comfortable..

Adjustable stock...another safety/ergonomics thing....why is it bad to ensure that the stock can be adjusted to the length best suited to the operator? you want them to be able to properly shoulder their rifle, right?...why is this a bad thing?

Flash suppressor...muzzle flash sucks...i'd rather not hafta deal with it...it doesn't ELIMINATE muzzle flash, it just tones it down... it doesnt make a gun suddenly stealth...you can still see the flash, and hear the noise, so if you're hiding, as long as you're pulling that trigger, you're still gonna get seen...not to mention that the only times AR-15's have allegedly been used for a media-worthy event (aside from aurora, which kinda doesn't even count), it was in a school, in broad daylight...if a guy walks into my workplace, with a rifle of ANY sort, the last thing i'm gonna give a s**t about is whether or not it has a flash suppressor...

there are others, but i don't feel like getting into all of them...these examples should give you an idea of how silly this bill is..

*snip* Pure logic IMO.

it's not logic...it's called "personal preference", and there is no problem with that....it's alright to have an opinion, and to make choices based on those opinions... it's when people try to pass off their opinions as fact, and logic, that i get annoyed.. and when people (not you, so far) try to say that i shouldn't have a right, just because they don't think it's a good idea, or don't have it, or don't want it..

the right exists...whether or not you choose to exercise it is up to you, all i ask is that those who choose not to exercise that right, leave those who choose to alone..

reply to post by Daedalus


Great post.

I would like to add:
Every time that one of these lying bastard politicians say that they are not trying to ban weapons that are used for hunting. ...

That is exactly what they are doing!

The Feinstein bill will ban AK's and AR's.... they are perfectly legal to hunt with in many states!

reply to post by SimonPeter


Trying to sneak in some anti-semitism are we? The Protocols were debunked a long time ago.

skepdic.com...

Guns make it easier to kill people. America is #ed up largely due to guns and the violence associated with guns. People pull the trigger but if there are no guns no one pulls the trigger and no one gets seriously injured or killed.

At least 10% of Americas population are drug #ed psychopaths and with guns so widely available and accepted in your hell hole you can only go around assuming that every single US citizen is armed and possibly addicted to ice, crack or psycho salts.

And what a #ing fool you are leaving guns and ammo on your front porch. How about trying the experiment again but advertise it on the web and sit back and enjoy the fireworks with some loved ones until some psycho drug freak comes along and takes you and/or your loved ones down in a rain of fire.

reply to post by Hydrawolf

Guns make it easier to kill people. America is #ed up largely due to guns and the violence associated with guns. People pull the trigger but if there are no guns no one pulls the trigger and no one gets seriously injured or killed. 

You make it sound really simple.

How do you get rid of the guns?

Originally posted by Hydrawolf
Guns make it easier to kill people. America is #ed up largely due to guns and the violence associated with guns. People pull the trigger but if there are no guns no one pulls the trigger and no one gets seriously injured or killed.

At least 10% of Americas population are drug #ed psychopaths and with guns so widely available and accepted in your hell hole you can only go around assuming that every single US citizen is armed and possibly addicted to ice, crack or psycho salts.

And what a #ing fool you are leaving guns and ammo on your front porch. How about trying the experiment again but advertise it on the web and sit back and enjoy the fireworks with some loved ones until some psycho drug freak comes along and takes you and/or your loved ones down in a rain of fire.

YAY!!! Another gun control advocate that does not know what satire is!!!

And as butcher said, how do you plan on magicking all those big bad guns away in your great land of unicorn's rainbow's and butterflies?

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77

Originally posted by Hydrawolf
Guns make it easier to kill people. America is #ed up largely due to guns and the violence associated with guns. People pull the trigger but if there are no guns no one pulls the trigger and no one gets seriously injured or killed.

At least 10% of Americas population are drug #ed psychopaths and with guns so widely available and accepted in your hell hole you can only go around assuming that every single US citizen is armed and possibly addicted to ice, crack or psycho salts.

And what a #ing fool you are leaving guns and ammo on your front porch. How about trying the experiment again but advertise it on the web and sit back and enjoy the fireworks with some loved ones until some psycho drug freak comes along and takes you and/or your loved ones down in a rain of fire.

YAY!!! Another gun control advocate that does not know what satire is!!!

And as butcher said, how do you plan on magicking all those big bad guns away in your great land of unicorn's rainbow's and butterflies?

edit on 19-2-2013 by Darkphoenix77 because: typo

edit on 19-2-2013 by Darkphoenix77 because: civility

It's too late...Gone too far...It should have been done years ago...You guys are #ed sorry to say...Your toys will be your downfall.

It's too late...Gone too far...It should have been done years ago...You guys are #ed sorry to say...Your toys will be your downfall.

I respectfully disagree, I think what should have been nipped in the bud years ago was the corruption and erosion of our liberties that has accelerated over the last dozen years.

Our "toys" are the only thing that have stood in the way of a complete collapse of our republic for the last 100 years.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Daedalus

 

Great post.

I would like to add:
Every time that one of these lying bastard politicians say that they are not trying to ban weapons that are used for hunting. ...

That is exactly what they are doing!

The Feinstein bill will ban AK's and AR's.... they are perfectly legal to hunt with in many states!

let's never forget though....the 2nd amendment isn't just some hand-me-down hunting license...it's far more than that..you can hunt with a bow and arrow...defending your home, property, or person with one is not entirely practical though...

Originally posted by Hydrawolf
Guns make it easier to kill people. America is #ed up largely due to guns and the violence associated with guns. People pull the trigger but if there are no guns no one pulls the trigger and no one gets seriously injured or killed.

At least 10% of Americas population are drug #ed psychopaths and with guns so widely available and accepted in your hell hole you can only go around assuming that every single US citizen is armed and possibly addicted to ice, crack or psycho salts.

And what a #ing fool you are leaving guns and ammo on your front porch. How about trying the experiment again but advertise it on the web and sit back and enjoy the fireworks with some loved ones until some psycho drug freak comes along and takes you and/or your loved ones down in a rain of fire.

are you sure you're not using an illicit substance at this time?

your post reeks of ignorance, and unfocused rage...

tell me...what land of make believe do you live in, where NOBODY has guns, and violent crime has magically disappeared entirely?