Paul was a murderer

reply to post by SimonPeter


Don't Jews believe in Yahweh? If so, are they allowed to believe Yahweh wasn't a real god, but a human construct? How am I helping the Jews if I deny Yahweh? Come on dude, just because I brought up a valid point doesn't mean you have to start labeling me a Jewish spy.

I'm pretty sure Paul covered all of your "prior of Zion" guidelines 2,000 years ago, if they even exist.

reply to post by windword


Who hated Jesus ? The Pharisees . Who has bashed Jesus and denied having him put to death ? Who has made every effort to create as much literature as they could to defame Jesus ? Those same people . Who is running the Worlds Banking system that have destroyed the worlds economy ? That same line of people .Who turned in the persecuted Jews and stole their assets ? That same line of People . Esau I have hated and Jacob I loved said God . They were twins with different reverence for God .
Are all of your references from those same people ? There are Messianic Jews who are persecuted as well . The Bible says that the Jew is the enemy of the Gentile as far as the Gospel goes .

reply to post by SimonPeter


What was Paul? A Pharisee. Who hated Jesus? Pharisees. Who has created literature to defame Jesus' message? Paul the Pharisee.

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by windword

 

John the Baptist did not walk around in white garments. In fact christ made mention of John in the context of how if you want to see well dressed folks go look in the palaces. John wore leather as did the man he emulated.

It has by theorized by some, that John the Baptist was raised by the Essenes, after his elderly parents passed away. And, that he may have been excommunicated, believing himself to be the messiah. People who were excommunicated by the Essenes were not allowed to accept anything from other people, including clothing and food. As John the Baptist wore leather and only ate wild honey and locust, he was within their punishment guidelines.

www.thenazareneway.com...

Their judgements were just, not being passed by a court of less than a hundred, and usually permanent. If anyone was guilty of sin he was cast out eating only grass since he could accept no succour from anyone without the permission of the guardian and thus he wasted away to die of starvation. Excommunication therefore meant death because no Essene would forgo his vows even though excommunicated. In practice the community accepted them again when they felt they had been punished enough. They obeyed their elders and accepted majority decisions.
Josephus

He was later accepted back into their brotherhood and good graces, according to Josephus.

The Manichaeans who derived from the Mandaeans—or Nasoraeans—followers of John the Baptist were called white robes. All took their habit of wearing white from their ultimate founders, the Essenes, who called themselves Lebanon, which means white, because they habitually wore sparklingly white robes of fine linen.

And the Essenes have there foundations in the old School of the Prophets founded by Elijah or Samule. The Long haired boys were from the sect of the Nazarites which was set up before that. Now there are some points of similarities like no wine or strong drink but an important diffrence between Samson and the Baptist is that the angels in Johns case didnt tell his mom not to cut his hair as he did in samsons case. Also in Samsons case his parents were told not to cut his hair or give him strong drink in Johns case the angel said the he would not drink wine.

The Essenes claim that Enoch was their founder

Edmond Bordeaux Szekely, in his excellent book From Enoch to the Dead Sea Scrolls, writes:
"The origin of the [Essene] brotherhood is said to be unknown.... Some believe it comes from Enoch, and claim him to be their founder."

After the original founding of the Essenes by Enoch, many centuries passed in which the Essenes existed as a Mystery School, out of the eyes of the public. Finally, it was time for a major remanifestation of the Essenes, for their numbers had dwindled to the point of near extinction. Moses was the man chosen by God to guide the remanifestation of the Essenes.

Both the ancient scholar Philo, and a modern scholar, Rabbi Harvey Falk (in his Another Look at the Jewishness of Jesus), informs us that Moses trained thousands of disciples as Essenes. The Essenes themselves describe that event in one of their most important texts: The Essene Book of Moses. www.essene.org...

In Samson's case, he was to be a Nazarite from birth.

4 Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing: 5 For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.
Judges 13:4-5

6 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the Lord:
Number 6 1-2

Who else was called a "Nazarene" Nazarite (Essene)? Jesus was!

Also Paul did say he spent some time in the desert but he by no means said he spent it out at Mesada. Paul also advised the use of wine for health reasons.

I never said that Paul studied with the Essenes in Masada. I don't where he did his 3 year initiation with the Essenes, but he did do it. Afterwards, he rejected them and their teachings, and betrayed them, according to their writings, and modern scholars interpretations of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


You have not brought up a valid pOint . I asked you to state your point but you don't have a convincing point as far as I am concerned . And the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion isn't
worth a read to you I guess .Or you know already what they say .
What is the goal of your claim . Are you saying the Gentile has no connection to Jesus ? Because Paul is our only connection to Jesus . Yes Jesus did talk to a officer in the Roman army briefly but Paul spread the Gospel to the Gentile . What are you hoping to achieve ?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Explain how Paul defamed Jesus .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by windword

 

Who hated Jesus ? The Pharisees . Who has bashed Jesus and denied having him put to death ? Who has made every effort to create as much literature as they could to defame Jesus ? Those same people . Who is running the Worlds Banking system that have destroyed the worlds economy ? That same line of people .Who turned in the persecuted Jews and stole their assets ? That same line of People . Esau I have hated and Jacob I loved said God . They were twins with different reverence for God .

"When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. For Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance."
Deuteronomy 32:8 from the Dead Sea Scrolls

Yahweh hated everyone who was assigned a different god by El Elyon. Jacob was Yahweh's charge, Esau wasn't.

Are all of your references from those same people ? There are Messianic Jews who are persecuted as well . The Bible says that the Jew is the enemy of the Gentile as far as the Gospel goes .

The Jewish religion is a beautiful religion filled with mysticism. I have no problem with people of the Jewish faith. I don't believe in Jesus' resurrection or virgin birth either. So what?

I do have a problem with the way governments and corporations are ruling the planet though.

reply to post by SimonPeter


Okay, what point did I not make, because I've already made more than one so far. Jude mentions people infiltrating Christianity "long ago". What makes you think Paul couldn't have been one of these Zion people who infiltrated the movement?

Peter traveling with Jesus would be a perfect substitute for Paul learning from the Essenes for three years, wouldn't it? That would explain a lot in my opinion.

reply to post by SimonPeter


I've already given you links. Why do you keep on asking the question when you know nothing is going to be good enough? All you're doing is covering your ears and labeling me Satanic.

reply to post by windword


Then you have a problem with a sect of Jews as per the Protocols . They are very real and very hard to deny who wrote them now days . It is all falling into place .And guess who is on top ? There are different sects of Jews and some hate God and follow the Devil and some are Godly Jews and some follow Jesus . They are not all the same .

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


NO links ! You gave me two verses out of the bible that were poor secular translations of the KJV bible . Why not use the KJV . You didn't prove your point then.

That's like saying ;
I begotten a you whom I have trained , now a good carpenter from a family of no trades . My son your mother and father should be proud of you .
Begotten is subjective . Your intent is not .

Originally posted by windword


It has by theorized by some, that John the Baptist was raised by the Essenes, after his elderly parents passed away. And, that he may have been excommunicated, believing himself to be the messiah. People who were excommunicated by the Essenes were not allowed to accept anything from other people, including clothing and food. As John the Baptist wore leather and only ate wild honey and locust, he was within their punishment guidelines.

Ok its a therory. Had John been excommunicated there is nothing that would require that he couldnt get clothing. Who would care if they were excommunicated anyway. John wore leather because he knew his mission to be what it was, a voice crying in the wilderness like Elijah. He had his own following and his own mission and didnt have to do anything the Essenes wanted him to do. I mean if the man is going to take on the political and relgious establisment he surely didnt care about the others.

The Essenes claim that Enoch was their founder

Edmond Bordeaux Szekely, in his excellent book From Enoch to the Dead Sea Scrolls, writes:
"The origin of the [Essene] brotherhood is said to be unknown.... Some believe it comes from Enoch, and claim him to be their founder."

After the original founding of the Essenes by Enoch, many centuries passed in which the Essenes existed as a Mystery School, out of the eyes of the public. Finally, it was time for a major remanifestation of the Essenes, for their numbers had dwindled to the point of near extinction. Moses was the man chosen by God to guide the remanifestation of the Essenes.

Both the ancient scholar Philo, and a modern scholar, Rabbi Harvey Falk (in his Another Look at the Jewishness of Jesus), informs us that Moses trained thousands of disciples as Essenes. The Essenes themselves describe that event in one of their most important texts: The Essene Book of Moses. www.essene.org...

Some beleive, so and so said, none of it backed up by Jesus or the apostles.

In Samson's case, he was to be a Nazarite from birth.

I know all about it.

Who else was called a "Nazarene" Nazarite (Essene)? Jesus was!

Had he tried to pass himself off as a Nazarite the establishment would have pointed out his hypocrisy for drinking wine and touching dead flesh. Do you know when he did this? Anyway you cant argue agaisnt the point. He was called a Nazarene, he was from Nazareth.....not a Nazarite by sect or pretention.

I never said that Paul studied with the Essenes in Masada. I don't where he did his 3 year initiation with the Essenes, but he did do it. Afterwards, he rejected them and their teachings, and betrayed them, according to their writings, and modern scholars interpretations of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Pure seculation based of very little if not zero.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Logarock

 

Both talked about grace, salvation, and faith almost exclusively. They both introduced concepts never preached by Jesus, and both founded the church together.

Galatians 1
18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas and stayed with him fifteen days. 19 I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother. 20 I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.

Why did Paul feel the need to say he wasn't lying about meeting with Peter? A liar usually tries to convince others he's not lying by saying he's not lying. There was no need for him yo say that, which leads me to believe that he WAS lying about something.

edit on 25-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Here is a good case of someone adding a cut of scripture to make it all look good but it means nothing to your point.

We cant say they preach ideas never taught by Jesus. John said that if it were all writen down what Jesus did and said the world couldnt hold the books. So we just dont have everything by a shot. I mean you have to be kidding.

reply to post by SimonPeter


I gave you two links with a whole list of blatant contradictions. You didn't even look at them, otherwise you would know that I gave you more than two.

That's SO typical, you know? You read one then discount it and all the others without reading them. That's something you do when you can't discredit the contradictions, so you throw logic out the window and shut down logically.

reply to post by Logarock


So why were the teachings that Paul followed omitted from the bible? People did put it together you know, and people did choose what would and wouldn't be in it. So why the absence of Paul's teachings in the gospels?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Logarock

 

So why were the teachings that Paul followed omitted from the bible? People did put it together you know, and people did choose what would and wouldn't be in it. So why the absence of Paul's teachings in the gospels?

You tell me. I see a lot of important teachings of Christ handled by Paul.

reply to post by Logarock

Who else was called a "Nazarene" Nazarite (Essene)? Jesus was!

Had he tried to pass himself off as a Nazarite the establishment would have pointed out his hypocrisy for drinking wine and touching dead flesh. Do you know when he did this? Anyway you cant argue agaisnt the point. He was called a Nazarene, he was from Nazareth.....not a Nazarite by sect or pretention.

The Myth of Nazareth shows that the village came into existence not earlier than 70 CE (the climax of the First Jewish War), and most likely in early II CE—the same era in which the canonical gospels were being edited.
www.nazarethmyth.info...

The evidence for a 1st century town of Nazareth does not exist – not literary, not archaeologically, and not historically. Biblical scholars and clergy alike have always had difficulty accepting the possibility that at the time of Jesus there was no city called “Nazareth.” They have always resisted this possibility and sometimes, quite vigorously.

The Encyclopaedia Biblica, a work written by theologians, and perhaps the greatest biblical reference work in the English language, says: "We cannot venture to assert positively that there was a city of Nazareth in Jesus' time." Nazareth is not mentioned in any historical records or biblical texts of the time and receives no mention by any contemporary historian. Nazareth is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the Talmud (the Jewish law code), nor in the Apocrypha and it does not appear in any early rabbinic literature. Nazareth was not included in the list of settlements of the tribes of Zebulon (Joshua 19:10-16) which mentions twelve towns and six villages, and Nazareth is not included among the 45 cities of Galilee that were mentioned by Josephus (37AD-100AD), a widely traveled historian who never missed anything and who voluminously describes the region. The name is also missing from the 63 towns of Galilee mentioned in the Talmud.
www.thenazareneway.com...

Nazareth wasn't in existence at the time Jesus supposedly lived. There was, however, a well known group of spiritual devotees called Nazarites.

Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

Why would Jesus go live in a town just to fulfill some prophecy? This is an obvious attempt to conceal the fact that Jesus, Mary and Joseph were Essenes of the Nazarite sect. The prophecy that Matthew was talking about isn't in the Old Testament, so he had to be referring to the Essene prophecy of the return of their master.

The Greek New Testament uses "Nazarene" six times, while "Nazorean" is used 13 times. In the Book of Acts, "Nazorean" is used to refer to a follower of Jesus, i.e. a Christian, rather than an inhabitant of a town.
en.wikipedia.org...(title)

Jesus wasn't a member of the Pharsee sect or the Sadducee sect, yet, he was called Rabbi. What other sects were there, at the time, who called their religious leaders Rabbi?

At the time of Jesus, there were three distinct Essenian groups that played important roles in his life, and their religious practices and spiritual theology mirror in his teachings. They were:

The Theraputae of Egypt; where the infant Christ and his family fled during Herods rein.

The Essenes of Qumran (Dead Sea Scrolls), the strict, celibate monastery of which John the Baptist was a part.

The Nazarenes of Mount Carmel, the cooperative family village where Jesus lived and studied.

Josephus and other classic writers tell us of the Essenes and their intense appreciation for the inspired Law of God and that they "strove to be like the angels of heaven." They also opposed slavery, the sacrificing of animals and the eating of flesh. Their highest aim was to become fit temples of the Holy Ghost (1 Cor 6:19), to be healers and perform cures, especially spiritual cures, and to be spiritually qualified as forerunners of the Messiah, the latter being the primary spiritual focus of the Nazarenes of Mount Carmel.

If Jesus never sinned, as we are told, and the Old Testament clearly labels drunkenness as a sin, then Jesus being a "wine bibber" is a lie. I don't believe that Jesus drank or got drunk. That would be a poor example in a messiah, and he was all about being an example. I don't believe that he ate meat either. However, believing himself to be the returned teacher, the master of the Essenes, would allow him to correct the Essenes in their errant ways.

reply to post by Logarock

I never said that Paul studied with the Essenes in Masada. I don't where he did his 3 year initiation with the Essenes, but he did do it. Afterwards, he rejected them and their teachings, and betrayed them, according to their writings, and modern scholars interpretations of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Pure seculation based of very little if not zero.

"Paul stayed on in Corinth for some time. Then he left the brothers and sailed for Syria accompanied by Priscilla and Aquila. Before he sailed, he had his hair cut off at Cenchrea because of a vow he had taken" (Acts 18:18 NIV)

What vow did Paul take that require him to cut his hair? The only vow that required one to cut off all the hair on one's head was the Nazarite vow.

And the Nazarite shall shave the head of the separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of the separation, and put it into the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings" (vs.17-18).

Paul went on the lie about and defame the Nararenes by saying that long hair was a disgrace. Why would he say this, knowing of the Nazarite vow, unless he wanted to discredit them. Why would he want to discredit the Nazarites? Because they had a different view on the teachings of Jesus than he did!

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Logarock

 

I never said that Paul studied with the Essenes in Masada. I don't where he did his 3 year initiation with the Essenes, but he did do it. Afterwards, he rejected them and their teachings, and betrayed them, according to their writings, and modern scholars interpretations of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Pure seculation based of very little if not zero.

"Paul stayed on in Corinth for some time. Then he left the brothers and sailed for Syria accompanied by Priscilla and Aquila. Before he sailed, he had his hair cut off at Cenchrea because of a vow he had taken" (Acts 18:18 NIV)

What vow did Paul take that require him to cut his hair? The only vow that required one to cut off all the hair on one's head was the Nazarite vow.

The fact that the nazarite shave his head under certain conditions was not something exclusive to the nazarite. You do understand that some men wanting to kill Paul also shaved their heads as a sign of resolve. They were Jews but were certainly not nazarites.

Originally posted by windword


Paul went on the lie about and defame the Nararenes by saying that long hair was a disgrace. Why would he say this, knowing of the Nazarite vow, unless he wanted to discredit them. Why would he want to discredit the Nazarites? Because they had a different view on the teachings of Jesus than he did!

Defame the nazerites. The nazerites were out of the loop and were as about as useless as tits on a bore at that point.

And really you need to make your links between ideas and fact a bit better. I mean I am listening but Pauls statemant cannot be shpw to be a refrence to the nazerites.