Next or Last Pope? Pontificate of Tribulations?Holy see moved away of Rome? Great Apostasy?

reply to post by 2012newstart

Dear 2012newstart,

Remembering your post on that the new Pope must consider the possibility that all priests can marry, here there is a very important first step in a so sensitive topic coming from one of the so called Papabili of the media that is covering this not yet inaugurated conclave, a cardinal of Scotland.

This is just to show that the fact that men use to wear something very similar than a skirt on those latitudes must not be confused with any other kind of preferences, (at least in the general case):

au.ibtimes.com...

Nevertheless, he went perhaps too much far beyond of what is strictly permitted to say or to offer to change in the mentality of the Church, according with the standards of HH Pope Benedict XVI, ( I believed possibly his great mistake was to talk openly on priesthood for women or the shadow of many rumors and even formal accusations of misconduct coming from his own priests had the weight to cut his career. ) and as it was expected, today afternoon he declined his office as principal of the Catholic church in Great Britain.

It is a pity, possibly this was after all only a smog curtain to hide other more grave reasons to be excluded of the conclave, but anyway with his unique points of view on marriage for priests, He is going to be a great absent in the next conclave.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Thanks for your attention,

The Angel of Lightness

Angel, I appreciate your views and acceptance of extraterrestrial life, and the quoted Bible texts. The Old Testament is more detailed, because the Angels perform pretty physical tasks there. The devote people who do not accept ET may always say: Jesus went to the Father, Mary too, and they have nothing to do with extraterrestrial planets, that might be true to a certain degree. Of course God the Father and the highest heaven is far beyond anything observable physically in our Universe (or if there are multiple universes). But that does not deny that we are created ina multi-billion star system that we slowly get to know. And when Ezekiel speaks of devices called by him wheels (Ezekiel 1) I think the devote people should rethink those paragraphs of the Holy Bible and see there is nothing wrong or sinful when God employs angelic or extraterrestrial forces with their flying devices. One of them took Elijah. Surely there are evil ones as well, as we read of the Nephilim who did a big transgression. The Book of Enoch has more of it.

I'd like to keep the discussion open to all members as well.

Let go back to Rome.
IF (and that is a big IF) Rome is going to be hit or even destroyed, what are the possible scenarios for the Catholic church?

Every surviving cardinal will be a treasure because no matter how few they could appoint the next pope. As we know every baptized man who can become bishop can also be chosen as pope. We know the name of one cardinal who will survive the conclave and that is cardinal O'Brien of UK. He already declared he won't go to Rome, as a result of accusations of priests that made him resign from his post only 2 days after he spoke publicly of the perspective of Married Priests. Connected or not, (I think the connection is more than obvious), cardinal O'Brien will de facto avoid any possible disaster in Rome. Perhaps there will be more cardinals who due to age or sickness will not be present at the conclave.

In a theoretical dark scenario when most of the cardinals are killed in Rome, perhaps the age over 80 of the remaining alive ones won't be of a big concern in the election of the new pope. It will take place outside of Rome. It happened in history many times.

So be prepared for surprises! And of course I wish nothing bad happens to Rome and conclave, and the cardinals do their job to elect an acceptable Petrus for the billion-wide catholic church who wil be able to build bridges to others. And why not to look above for extraterrestrials as well.

reply to post by The angel of light


I must ask a question, is the prophetic importance pertaining to the pope and the catholic church overstated, I feel and the evidence of what has been unveiled and rumors of new disclosures is that the catholic is the whore of Babylon.

I do not see how any pope or bishop can consider themselves to be men of God when they have INTENTionally his the crimes and sexual abuse perpetrated by their fellow priests. These actions in itself is a direct violation by any interpretation of the Bible.

reply to post by DOLCOTT

Seems to me that the answer of your question is already given in one of my previous posts:

There is no evidence at all that the sexual misconduct you refer is exclusive of the Catholic hierarchy, it is present in the same frequency in many other religious groups, including of course the different denominations of the other branches of the Christendom: Church of England, Protestantism, Mormonism, and also in other non Christian congregations as Jews and Muslims.

The public moral does not gain nothing in to continue supporting distractions sophisms that try to make this problem as a "Catholic stigma" when it is not all, but a grave signal of the decomposition of the societies in the post modernity, take in account that today we have sexual promiscuity, drogadiction, sexadiction, pornography and prostitution even in countries in which these social problems were completly absent just 3 years ago, like the countries of the Soviet block. .

Also in one of my other posts in this same thread I warned of the presence of other type of misbehavior of increasing radicalization and fundamentalist violence that for instances has been detected in confrontations between orthodox groups and Armenians.

The Great Babylonia you mention is a just a symbol of the world without God, the one that is sinning without control or repentance, and that underworld is spread all across the planet, even in nations in which Catholics are a rare minority.

The use of this metaphor to attack the Catholic church is originated in Martin Luther, that apparently was a very strict theologian to denounce the immorality in the church, but in his private life he committed the abomination to make a nun his personal mistress.

Paedophilia, that is the favorite accusation that the sects use to attack the Catholic church, is not exclusive of celibacy, it is even more common in people that is already married and in persons working with children, adolescents or very young people, as the scandal of the Penn State University sadly showed in recent times.

Pls read:

en.wikipedia.org...



Thanks for your attention,

The Angel of Lightness

The original text of St Malachi consists of 3 series of popes, the first the largest, the seond smaller, and the third consisting of only 3 popes, i.e. John Paul I, John Paul II and Benedict XVI. The list ends with pope 111.

Then follows the single paragraph of Petrus Romanus. There isn't assigned ANY number to that paragraph. It seems not a part of the list at all, but a conclusion of the prophecy.
It may not be connected in time with the last pope in the list that is pope 111 Benedict. It may be fulfilled after hundreds of years. We just don't know.

My suggestion follows the logic: if we know when the false prophet and the antichrist come, we will know also when Jesus will come adding some 1260-1335 days or so. Jesus himself told us in the Gospel it is not given to know, neither the angels nor the Son know, only the Father in Heaven. If so, how can we predetermine who or when is the false prophet? We will not know in advance until it happens - those people at that time will know it, the Great Trib.

SO I suggest no legitimate pope will be elect now, and the roman church will cease its command structure of Vatican-led operations. Even if someone is elected it will be a non canonical election. We know of deep divisions between the Church especially poor South, secularized West, and Italy that wants to lead them all. It will be a miracle if they can elect a canonical normal pope as the next one, to be Petrus Romanus. However slim that possibiity exists of course.

10 more hours and Benedict leaves the Vatican, 13 more hours and the see of Peter in Rome is vacant. That could continue for a long time as it happened in history.

I do not rue out the possibility Petrus Romanus comes now immediately after Benedict or in a resonably short time (let say 2-3 months). It seems the crisis now is complete, worse than ever before, surpassing 1929. So what worse should happen in order to have the antichrist coming? The Gospel speaks of a sorrow that has never been since the creation and will never be again. Many people today me included experience sorrows as never before. But can we say it cannot get any worse than that? perhaps it can.

If the antichrist and the false prophet rise now, I don't expect them to come within the already corrupt system of the Roman church. Who will follow them? Will the Muslims follow them? It is said all world will follow the antichrist aided spiritually by the false prophet. Perhaps it is a different kind of spiritual leader (false but leader) that will rise from the current Muslim countries. There are tons of interpretations of Daniel and Isaiah who speak of Assyrian. The Muslims themselves have their own prophecies (not necessarily divine inspired) who predict the Dajjal (anti messiah) will rise from between Syria and Iraq. In other words they too pray to escape the dajjal and want to fight him. It is wrong to assume that they expect the anti-messiah to follow him. But the delusion will be too strong for everyone who lives on the face of the earth in that time.

The Gospel speaks of "one will be taken another left", many verses of a supernatural unimaginable taking from the earth to a place of security. St Ephraem the syrian speaks in ...4th century? that the righteous will be taken from the earth so they do not see and be deceived by the antichrist. The rapture doctrine is not a protestant doctrine rather a belief in the early church. Then comes Augustine and double crosses all ideas of supernatural escape and reign, substituting it with the earthly kingdom of the pope equals to emperor. That idea was quickly adopted in the Christendom and is not changed until recently. Augsutine brutally cut off the timeline in the Revelation. How could he take those 1000s years from the end and put them in the midst of the history? He did that. He changed the Revelation timeline. I don't know for what reason he did that. But Augustine's teaching is not a dogma. No matter it is repeated by all best medieval scholars. It is still not a dogma thanks God.

So is it now? If tomorrow spaceships take a good portion of believers, will it be alien abduction or the long expected supernatural intervention, that some call rapture? If Elijahs case is repeated 1000 times, 100,000 or 100 million times? For those who have understanding, it will be equal to Elijah's taking. For those fanatics who reject every new idea or reread of the Gospel, it wil be diabolical abduction. And they will stay only to meet the real diabolical creatures called locusts. because those seem to me also aliens but evil.

I don't know if we are in that time or not. One is sure the time is worse than ever, the chance for a third world war is bigger than ever, (that deserves another big discussion), and that has never happened in the human written history - nuclear war or big asteroid. It might have happened in the unknown part of history but it is not recorded in the Biblical timeline. Because a nuclear war will surpass the devastation of the Flood. And asteroid impact will be even greater.

Reading of Bayside it closes very near. I will not endorse it. (and I really don't care what the late bishop Mugavero wrote, I care for inconsistencies within the messages themselves who call that Satan has 6 times more nukes than "us" quote Virgin Mary. Virgin Mary doesn't need nukes to defeat Satan).

Modern apparitions such as Anguera Brazil predict even more. And they are not forbidden, rather benevolently blessed by local bishops. I will stop here, waiting the next events.

Let remember also John Paul I who died surprisingly one month after being elect. Shortly before the conclave, as patriarch-cardinal of Venice, he visited Lucia of Fatima and was visibly disturbed of what she told him.

It is sad that neither John Paul I nor John Paul II could fulfill Fatima although they both wanted to do so. Benedict didn't make an attempt. The year of 2000 will remain as the year of the lost chances and of a partial if not forged secret. Not surprisingly, the start of the third millennium was followed by 9/11 and all the events after that. Perhaps it could be prevented by the popes and their closest aides (cards. Ratzinger, Sodano and Bertone at that time).

I suppose Fatima real text goes far beyond of what we already know: possible WW3 nuclear, possible planetary cataclysm where oceans become steams (Neues Europa text), possible infiltration f satan-ists within the Vatican. We all know that is possible to happen or already happened. If this was Fatima it would be released. Something more than that is concealed. My suggestion is it has to do with extraterrestrial manifestation and changing course of history. Russia has a role in it, but not the role that the known texts point to. Otherwise, a simple prayer of consecration should be said 1000s times by now. Perhaps it will be the first duty of the new pope, no matter what the circumstances around his election.

reply to post by 2012newstart


I agree with you. The benevolents extraterrestrials are the angels and they will abduct the chosen ones (rapture within few weeks and months).

The starting point is NOW, by the end of B16 on the stage...

reply to post by The angel of light


Do not forget the prophecy of Pope John 23. It keeps being forgotten.
It has not received the publicity it deserves to have.

reply to post by Tianmat

could you please briefly retel it?

The topics overlay each other and it is indeed difficult to connect all those dots.
For ex. what happens if there is no other pope elected? Who will fulfill Fatima demand of Russia? Could it be then the Russian bishops themselves start the initiative to consecrate their homeland to the Mother of God as they prefer to call Our Lady, and in the process to include all catholic bishops too?

The big voids in prophecy of nowadays (Fatima, others that have secrets), together with inaction of those responsible, makes the common person's life a hostage to those big people of the day. 1917 - 2013 how many years are there, how many generations? Or how many since 1984 attempt of consecration by JPII? How much more is necessary? It is abuse of God's grace. It won't be unending. As St Faustina speaks of the mercy followed by justice.

I hope the Last generation that Jesus talks about will see all events. But may be its lifespan will be prolonged by the modern medicine. Because I don't comprehend how all events up until the second Coming will be fulfilled in 4-5 years that remain of the current lifespan of this generation.

In spite of al the above, missed chances of grace, abuses, scandals...resulting in historical delay and ruin of thousands may be millions of lives...

I think the idea of Vatican-3 council should be promoted. Not only judgment on the past century but also giving a new start. Not the acceptance of women priests and gay. But Acceptance the Orthodox and Eastern churches as equal sister churches and appointment of the Roman pope as "primus inter pares" (first among equal) the old Church principle that Rome abrogated in 1054. No one can speak instead of Jesus Christ on this earth as a substitute of Him. Not even the pope.

Or the Roman church will disappear after the next pope, no matter what exact wording or what exact sequence of events. The prophecy says it.

Whether that will coincide with the Second Coming of Jesus and the Great Trib before that, I don't know. I am not a prophet. But I think a number of modern credible prophecies avoid to speak of the Second Coming instead they finish their timelines to a Divine Chastisement. No one knows the day or the hour, not even the angels, nor the Son but also the Father in Heaven."

The time for these decisions runs out for the cardinals. Instead of the next bickering they are posed to do before the eyes of the entire world this time, thanks to the electronic media they should elect someone who will do the work. Better not a cardinal at all. Better a holy bishop of second level diocese or even a monk. The alternative is they all go in history as outdated, as something created artificially in the centuries and nothing genuine from the Gospel. I will not judge anyone. But the prophecies abundantly say there will be judgment. May be not the Last jugment but particular one. As I think that the Cold war could end in 1960 and now we would have 50 years of Era of peace and probably would have brought the Gospel to tens, hundreds of other planets. Instead our lives just passed because of a handful of people who call themselves holy, who some of them did the worst things, and didn't do what was required from them. Their time comes to an end. Not end of the world, end of that kingdom - yes. It is a pity Benedict lost 8 years of our lives. But it will be even great sorrow if more years in the new mandate are lost. This time forever. The world cannot wait more. And seems the prophecies are equally urgent. Read Anguera 2008

Let it be elected a seer, a married man, as Peter was married.

I have three seers in mind, all from Brazil the biggest catholic country in the world. They have received blessings, one from pope another from bishop, and the third one's apparition was recently approved.
So they are:
Edson Glauber, Itapiranga, Amazonia
Pedro Regis of Anguera, Bahia, Brazil
Brother Eduardo of Sao Jose dos Pinhais, Parana, Brazil, stigmatic.
One may add the Medjugorje seers, but since Medjugorje apparition is in process of approval, I think it is wise to let them aside.

But the Brazilian seers are pretty serious, much more devote than many of the college of cardinals. I believe anyone of them would serve much better as successor of Peter's see, knowing what is the will of God better than the current contenders. I am repulsed by the way the current election is going on, and probaby will have nothing in common with the new Roman church if the elected one is one of those deplorable persons who ruined decades of history. Or a builder of NWO as Peter Turkson appears to be. Or...anything short of holiness and resolve to fulfill 100% the demands of heaven will result in catastrophe. And the catastrophe will involve not only the church in Rome. Let not repeat previous posts. Let those red hats understand they are not in 15-18 century and none of them is infallible. there are holy men, here are 3 of them, perhaps many more. Choose one whom God has chosen! Or go in shame out of the world scene!

the devotion to the Three Sacred Hearts (Jesus, Joseph, Mary) promoted in Itapiranga apparition.

I hope those in office understand with the coming of the last pope it is a matter of "do or die", "to be or not to be" not just for a candidate but for the entire church in Rome (not necessarily the entire Catholic church worldwide). They have gotten enough grace from heaven to do it. No matter who of them will do it, the work must be done. Or God will choose other way around that the apparitions warn about. Perhaps that other way passes thru nuclear war, nuking of Rome, and probably also asteroids.

Just few of the voumes messages given in Anguera:

A war will explode on Rome and there will be few survivors. The blood of many consecrated persons will flow in the streets and plazas like water fro

5 January, 2008. Message from Our Lady of Peace, Anguera, 2939

Dear Sons and Daughters, a war will explode on Rome and there will be few survivors. He who is against Christ will bring suffering and sorrow to all Europe. The throne of Peter will be empty. Tears of pain and weeping of lamentations will be seen in the Church.

10 January, 2008. Message from Our Lady of Peace, Anguera, 2941

Dear Sons and Daughters, the church of My Jesus will carry a heavy cross. Many consecrated persons will live the anguish of one condemned. The blood of many consecrated persons will flow in the streets and plazas like water from the rain. The church will suffer great attacks.

The axis of the earth will change and My poor children will live moments of great tribulations

Message 3310 from Our Lady, Queen of Peace, Anguera BA. Brazil transmitted in 24/04/2010

Dear Sons and Daughters, don´t get away from prayer. Humanity is at the eve of most sorrowful events. I am your sorrowful Mother and I suffer because of what is coming to you. The earth will shake and immense rivers of fire will rise from the depths. Sleeping giants will awake and there will be great suffering for many nations. The axis of the earth will change and My poor children will live moments of great tribulations. Pay attention. This is a time of pain for humanity. Return to Jesus. Only in Him will you find strength to support the weight of the trials that must come. Courage. I will speak to My Jesus for you. Don´t back out. This is the message I transmit to you today in the name of T he Most Holy Trinity. Thank you for permitting Me to reunite you here once more. I Bless you in the name of The Father, of The Son, and of The Holy Spirit. Amen. Be at peace.

Thank you for your OP.
SnF
My similar thread can be found here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
A chronological listing of the Popes can be found here:
www.newadvent.org...
Many have heard or read about the last Pope or Petrus Romanus, the 112th Pope. This is from the vision of The Prophecies of St. Malachy. Some say his version was changed in the printings after 1820 to read 112th Pope. St. Malachy was an Irish bishop who lived in the 12th century. By far the most famous of his prophecies, are the sequence of popes.
I will present a chronological listing of the Anti Popes.
Beginning with Celestine II (166th Pope), who was elected in 1130, to Benedict XVI (266th Pope) equals, 100 Popes since the beginning of St. Malachy’s prophecy. The other eleven are antipopes, meaning the 12th will be Petrus Romanus. And his predecessor, the 111th, designated Gloria olivae. The anti-Popes are: Octavius ("Victor IV") (1159-1164), Pascal III (1165-1168), Callistus III (1168-1177) and Innocent III (1178-1180), Nicholas V,(1328-1330), Robert of Geneva ("Clement VII"), (1378-1394), Pedro de Luna ("Benedict XIII") (1394-1417) and Baldassare Cossa ("John XXIII") (1400-1415), Baldassare Cossa ("John XXIII") (1400-1415), and Pietro Philarghi ("Alexander V") (1409-1410), Amadeus of Savoy ("Felix V"), (1439-1449). I don't know if something is going to happen, but as one of Our Lord Jesus Christ's parables teaches us, when the fig tree blossoms, know that spring is near.
Peace be with you.
SnF

I noticed that tomorrow is March, 1st, 2013, i.e. 1.3.13. DOUBLE 13. The day of the 13th, i.e. Jesus-Christ.

At this date the church is empty and should be washed. And so it begins the sedevacante.

I noticed that the end of the mayan calendar is the 13.0.0.00 baktuns, the day of the Return of Quetzalcoatl.

I find this very striking...

Originally posted by SilentKoala
I hope the next pope has nothing to do with the name Peter just so this St Malachi prophecy can be put to rest.

Sorry but the next pope doesn't have to have the name 'peter' for teh St. Malachi prophecy to be accurate. EVERY pope is considered to be 'peter'. Every pope sits in the Chair of Peter. Every pope 'stands in the shoes of the fisherman'. So, whoever it is has already filled the 'peter' part of the prophecy simply by being elected pope.

reply to post by 2012newstart

The Peace of God to all that belong to the light,

Dear Readers,

Well, we have arrived to the end of the Pontificate of Benedict XVI, today as he anounced he is retiring definitively of the public life, of his 8 years on the throne of St Peter and of a very long religious career.

This Pope that took the the huge responsibility to rule the biggest Christian Congregation of the world, that alone represents about two third of all the Chirstendom, has ended his rule still alive and with enough energy to see the election of his successor.

Pls read.
news.yahoo.com...

news.yahoo.com...

Two additional comments to at the end of this Pontificate:

- The drastic changes in the mentality of the world are making more urgent than perhaps never before to think in the need of Vatican III council, I think there are many topics on the table that are challenging the Christendom in a really impressive way: the advance of the women in the modern world and what is the role they have and the one they claim in the future, the tolerance to the complexity of the new kind of relationships that now exist in all the world, the need to save the priesthood of all the crisis on the last decades and specially to reconsider the need of the celibate.

- It is clear that at just weeks of the election of a New Pope there is no clear candidate(s) that emerge as a potential successor, and that in my opinion is also projecting the image that there is at present a crisis of leadership in the Church, that there is no certaintity about if the current direction is the correct path, and many doubts of what changes must be done. We are seeing a Church that is on crisis advancing in a world that is also in crisis of many orders, economical, social, cultural and perhaps of values.

Thanks for your attention and all your nice replies,

your friend,

The Angel of Lightness

reply to post by The angel of light

The Peace of God to all that belong to the light,
Dear Readers,

Various inquiries have arrived to my inbox, asking me for a definitive forecast on the Pope election, and well today I have ended my assignment and here it is:

I have had a feeling, after many days in deep meditation focused on this topic, lets say that it is like an increasing sensation that the conclave we are going to see in few weeks is no going to be among the shortest ones of History. I might not be surprised to see an election of the next Pope happening among the 19th or 21th of the month, to be sincere.

Now, I also have the impression or the intuition that we are not going to see an easy return of the Papacy to Italian hands, in spite of all what is currently said in many media, to the contrary, I perceive great consensus into give the opportunity of to carry this great responsibility to some Cardinal coming from a country that never before have had such privilege.

I also have seen in my visions on this event a man relatively young, that means not close to eighty, being elected Pope. He might speak at least three languages fluently and he is not definitively coming from a conservative background, as it was the case of Benedict XVI or John Paul II. This New pope will be a man of new ideas, but at the same time able to deal with the people of the old guard of the Vatican.

Two of the strongest forerunners in the last two vote rounds that this conclave might have, will be non European Cardinals, that is also clear for me in what I am feeling, and as it happened with John Paul I and II in the conclaves of 1978, both can be perfectly chosen Pope in the future in different next elections.

Another hint that I feel important to identify this Pope is that he speaks without difficulty one Romance Language, apart of the Latin of course. Finally he might come from a land separated of Rome by sea, he is going to watch the ocean for considerable time from the airplane window before to arrive to Italy for the conclave.

He is not expected to be the chosen one, in fact he is just planning his vote. He probably will not rule with a name already used by the last Popes, but he consider to honor the name of a Pastor of very difficult times of the past, somebody that left a deep personal mark in the Church.

Thanks for your attention,

your friend,

The Angel of Lightness

The Church or bride of Christ should always listen to the voice of Jesus Christ. I do not repeat exactly the words of Paul. In history, key moments of survival for Christendom have been won only because of supernatural intervention, thru saints as mediators. Lepanto and Vienna, two battles between the Christian (more or less united) and Muslim Ottoman forces, where in both of these cases the Ottoman empire had overwhelming superiority and did not consider a possible defeat. After Lepanto victory is dedicated to Our Lady of the Rosary, and so is the feast on October 7 when the battle occur. Numerous are also the battles of the Russian principalities with Genghis Khan and his descendants (Timur the most fearsome)to stop the flow of the biggest ever country in the world - that of Genghis Khan and his descendants, to flood Europe.

I will not enter into all history and that is not my task. One can speculate a lot with the most modern history and the role of the supernatural in it. Fatima is an example and we discussed it more or less, in this and other threads.

The newly elected pope must follow the voice of the bridegroom Jesus not only as a scholastic exercise and teaching of the church that the successor of peter represents such a voice. That is good but not good enough. The new successor must follow the practical demands of the heaven, made by un disputable, proven apparitions such as Fatima. This is not an optional thing. This is a matter of survival. I already wrote, may be not in this thread don't remember, that if Rome fails for any reason, there still will be catholic bishops who will continue the church. And there will still be other apostolic churches who continue the church of Jesus Christ including that established by Peter himself (Antioch in first place). I'd wish Rome follows the instructions of Heaven that started some centuries ago and do not end in this very day. Just check the Anguera messages from 2008 (I hope you will find them online, at least in Portuguese). The bride of Christ is all the church on Earth, far not only the biggest portion of it the Catholic. "Did Christ divided himself"? asks the apostle. "Did Peter die for your sins"? And many more quotes that always be interpreted in "another way".

Another thing very much connected that I initially wanted to write about. It is the angelic direct or indirect intervention. It is good to believe in the beautiful spirits next to each of us and next to the pope. They appear on apparitions together with Virgin Mary herself. In some cases Medjugorje seers speak of hundreds of baby angels (not aborted babies she says) who appear next to Our Lady. (Medjugorje is still under investigation).

We should realize from the Old Testament that these same angels and archangels did pretty hysical and visible things. Such as Raphael to travel months with Tobias unrecognized (no wings), or Gabriel to lead battle with the king of Persia. Or to transport Phillip from Gaza to Azotus, tens of miles away. We are talking of physical presence, not only of beings of light, but also of their material devices. What is it that Elijah boarded when he was taken? It was a physical flying device called "chariot of fire" for lack of proper wording. The process of taking of Elijah does not take an instant or blink of an eye, but is described with all details. Please reread it. Elijah moreover was not resurrected at that time (before Jesus) and needed a device that would fly. Fly to where? Not to the highest heaven. Perhaps many will say to the "paradise garden". But where that paradise is? How about other planets? A living person would need food and water and habitable environment, not a cloud. Otherwise he would be "raptured" without any device used. (I don't like the word rapture, and prefer the word rescue). Or you can read the abundant description of the wheels within wheels given by Ezekiel 1. Those are not only cherubs. Those are also their technical devices used for purpose known to them.

It is a time for the Church (not only the Catholic) to recognize the superior forces at God's disposal, whom today we call with the 9 angelic choirs. They are much more than singing and birds' wings. They have much bigger role in the visible Universe. We should recognize that visible Universe has many more stars with likely other civilizations on them. The fact Jesus died and resurrected on Earth, once and for all, make us unique. But still Jesus has other sheep not fromt his fold, and perhaps He even appeared to them as appeared to Thomas after resurrection (even if we disregard the modern apparitions).

The annual apparition of Valentine of Kibeho (in Belgium) once spoke with Our Lady for something, after which Valentine said: but if I tell them that they will take me for a lunatic. What could sound as" lunatic" in Our Lady's words, except for the taboo of ET life? The new pope must face it, NOW.
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