The One People's Public Trust & Sovereign Citizens Movement Scams Broken Down.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Honor93
that's why i'm still in this thread.

And likewise, just because there are videos of "sovereign freeman" shout in court on the Internets is no evidence they were successful.

But it is interesting that the constables did not prevent him from doing what he did in the moment. Like I said earlier, that would never be allowed to go down in US courts. Whether he was later arrested as another poster claims is irrelevant if he was able to walk out of there a free man on that day.

The law did not stop him from walking out of that room and that is success in my eyes.

If he was truly detained and arrested on a later date, it would not be the first time a gov locks someone up who doesn’t follow their line of thought, we call them political prisoners.

memory.loc.gov.../llsl016.db&recNum=454

reply to post by Hefficide

your link went to this ...

NON-PROFIT CORPORATIONS
Any corporation granted an exemption by the IRS as a non-profit organization under Section 501(c) is exempt from Delaware Corporate Income Tax.

Additionally, Non-Profit Corporations are exempt from obtaining a Delaware business license and paying the accompanying gross receipts tax on the sales of most goods and services. (Some services such as leasing tangible personal property or providing accommodations are taxable regardless of the entity providing such services.)

now why would they be listed on an informational page ???
or as a non-profit for that matter ... we all know it's a for-profit corp.
gotta pay the Crown ya know ?

The following definitions are from Black's Law Dictionary, 8th edition. Published by Thomson-West, and edited by Bryan A. Garner (editor-in-chief):

Capitis deminutio (from Roman law) A diminution or alteration of a person's legal status -- Also spelled capitis diminutio.

Capitis Deminutio Maxima (from Roman law) The diminution of a person's legal status as a result of being reduced to slavery.

Capitis deminutio minima (from Roman law) The diminution of a person's legal status involving a change of family, while both citizenship and freedom were retained.

Capitis deminutio minor (from Roman law) The diminution of a person's legal status involving a loss of citizenship but not of freedom. Under the Empire, banishment for life to an island or other restricted area had this effect. Also termed capitis deminutio media.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Honor93

i honestly try to avoid WW as much as possible.
thoughts of that embarassment make me wanna hurl

although, if it's news to you ... i guess we can discuss him

this whole country changed alot when WW came on scene.

I know how you feel. I only mentioned the name due to his influence in how Delaware became one of the main homes of corporations.

i mentioned james trafficant earlier in this thread ...

From a speech in Congress in The Bankruptcy of The United States United States Congressional Record, March 17, 1993 Vol. 33, page H-1303. Speaker-Rep. James Traficant, Jr. (Ohio) addressing the House:

"Prior to 1913, most Americans owned clear, allodial title to property, free and clear of any liens or mortgages until the Federal Reserve Act (1913) "Hypothecated" all property within the federal United States to the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve - in which the Trustees (stockholders) held legal title. The U.S. citizen (tenant, franchisee) was registered as a "beneficiary" of the trust via his/her birth certificate. In 1933, the federal United States hypothecated all of the present and future properties, assets and labor of their "subjects," the 14th Amendment U.S. citizen, to the Federal Reserve System.

In return, the Federal Reserve System agreed to extend THE FEDERAL United States CORPORATION [emphasis added] all the credit "money substitute" it needed. Like any other debtor, the federal United States government had to assign collateral and security to their creditors as a condition of the loan. Since the federal United States didn't have any assets, they assigned the private property of their "economic slaves", the U.S. citizens as collateral against the unpayable federal debt. They also pledged the unincorporated federal territories, national parks forests, birth certificates, and nonprofit organizations, as collateral against the federal debt. All has already been transferred as payment to the international bankers.

members.iimetro.com.au...

reply to post by IntrinsicMotivation


hmmmm, i thought that looked familiar.
first saw it here ... Freedom School
if you scroll down to the Articles of Incorporation ... 6 & 8 got my attention, which led to further inquiry.

that's when i noticed the listed 'stockholders' and that really jumped out at me.
of course, i find this purely coincidental ... and, i have no real idea who the Baden listed is, but the name is familiar and here's why ... source

i also found it interesting that on the 91 tax report, Ms Baden has added the Dees name to her own ... went from stockholder to Secretary ... yet, report separate locations
(my guess would be addl tax deductions)

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Let's do a thought experiment....

Let's pretend your name is Joe Smith. I find this out, and I decide to go into downtown Atlanta and file to create a Corporation called "Joe Smith Inc."

Does that effect you in any way, shape, or manner? Does it negate or define you?

perhaps you should ask those who have suffered such identity theft ... it happens.

reply to post by vkey08

good night, glad you got paid ... now don't forget to pay your taxes so i can eat too
2nd

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Honor93
none of the posters insisting this is wrong or illegal (including yourself) have provided any evidence of said illegality.

You haven't claimed any illegality, only misconceptions. There's really no point in providing evidence in a conversation such as this since you'll simply reject it. I have no desire to fuel your fantasies of Internet one-upmanship.

fantasies ??
(i promise ATS isn't part of those )

internet one upmanship ?? wth is that ?
and how is history "misconceptions" ??? please, explain that one.

correct, there is no point in providing that which doesn't exist ... evidence.
exactly.

i haven't seen any 'evidence' to reject ... are you offering any ??
"it doesn't work that way" -- is apparently evidence in your world ... it sure isn't in mine.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

no. i'm, still searching for some logical facts but they don't seem to be appearing here.

yes, ATS is entertainment but sovereignty and freedom aren't.

plenty of logical facts have swayed my opinions over the years (even here) just not in this thread, not yet anyway.

what 'sane rationale' ??
please share.

hmmmm, all this personal attack and still no evidence that using UCC as some suggest is illegal, okie dokie then.
enjoy.

well if that's true, i suppose "sunset provisions" are just a Florida thing, huh ?

Anyone have any idea of the psychology involved in the individuals that buy into these types of scams? No street smarts? Parents gave them everything they wanted as a child so now they think the world will bend to their command? I don't get it.

Originally posted by vkey08
I found something interesting as I was going through the paperwork I have stashed around my home office.

The real things the UCC forms the OPPT are used for and how they are twisted to be used for nefarious purposes..

So here goes, hopefully without too much flamage.

UCC FILINGS

The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) was first published in 1952 as part of an effort to help standardize commercial transactions throughout the US. Sovereign citizens commonly use the following legitimate UCC forms as part of fraudulent filings:

• UCC-1 - A financial form used to secure a loan under the provisions of the UCC. - Sovereigns use this document to create a public and private notice of superior security interest, claims, or liens on collateral. The Secured party is listed as the filer or another person whom is entering the contract. The Debtor is responsible for the monetary payment and is listed as officially acknowledging the contract. - These documents are filed to complete a security interest and establish priority of collateral. - UCC-1 filings protect the Secured party’s interest in the collateral offered by a Debtor for a loan.

• UCC-3 - A form filed as evidence of an assignment, release, or change in the original UCC-1. - UCC-3 filings can be used both legitimately and by sovereign citizens to terminate a UCC-1, assign a new Secured party, change the Debtor or Secured party information, or to change the collateral requested in the initial filing.

• UCC-3AD - A form filed to authorize amendments listed in the UCC-3. - Sovereign citizens are known to file UCC-3 Addendums to pay specific debts.

• General Tactics Using UCCs - The sovereign citizen files a UCC naming themselves as both the Secured party and Debtor. - This action is believed to “lock” their assets. - Sovereign citizens believe “locking” their asset will require them to “pay” themselves before other creditors may claim assets.

I don't know why you don't have more stars for this. This is a very nice summary of what these people actually do. They somehow think that by listing their names as both the "debtor" and "secured" party (one in all caps, the other not) they have some kind of leverage in a court room.

These documents are public record -- "notices" really. Judges see them a such, and makes decisions based on the competency of the filer, and the legitimacy of the claim of lien.

UCC's simply establish a public record of the chain of ownership on personal property. That is all they do, and what they are actually used for. You wouldn't want to buy a jet ski that hasn't been paid off yet, would you?

reply to post by DJW001

They claim that people are "enslaved by the system." They offer freedom. People who reject the system and work to change it are called "revolutionaries." Yet, the OPT and the Freeman movement have done nothing to change the system. Instead, they offer a "loophole" to individuals to escape the system without doing anything to change it. Indeed, they hold out the promise of being able to exploit the system, allowing a chosen few to enjoy the benefits of the system without being held accountable to it.

I think your observation or theory is right at the only real point of all discussion about government and TPTB.

All of the socialists and quick fixers just want to be in control of the whole system. No one out side of the free marketeers and the anarchists wants to try something more natural.

Ludwig von Mises wrote along this line in "Human Action". The collectivists think that they can design an ethical/moral system that people will adapt to, never considering whether it is possible for people to naturally live in an artificial reality, i.e. a governmentally constructed economy.

People are designed or evolved to make decisions. The best system would have people making as many decisions as possible. Economics is not about money specifically, it is about choices; deciding what is most important to one's self and what can be done with one's time and property.

God is important. "There are no atheists in foxholes" Of course in a natural governance, only people who chose to be in foxholes would be.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

thank you for the warm and fuzzy thoughts

No. You're still "in this thread" because it's a game to you. No logical facts sway you. No sane rationale makes sense to you. The thrill of "proving someone wrong on the Internets" (especially if they're really right) is what stokes your fire.

considering the primary premise of the OPPT is positive effect via respect and cooperation, i'm glad you have brought to my attention just how much that idea irks you.
thanks again.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
Anyone have any idea of the psychology involved in the individuals that buy into these types of scams?

(1) They feel wrong by the "system" when in fact they've never progressed beyond their own inability to be motivated.

(2) They want to be "in" on something that would make them more superior than others who have passed them by.

(3) They want to be "in the know" of incredible information no one else has.

Any combination of the above.

reply to post by vkey08

A trust in this sense is a monetary instrument that is used to hold collateral to be dispersed according to the trust setup.

As a novice, I think a trust itself does not require collateral. The trust is actual wealth, held and controlled by the trustee, for the benefit of the beneficiary.

The complexity of the trust concept is why it gets used by con men and why it could conceiveably be used by some form of controlling monetary power.

I take it that most of the OPPT's and the SC's rhetoric comes from the similarities between the PTB claim to our lives and property and the normal powers of a trustee in a trust.

I get the impression that because of your work you have seen that the OPPT and Sovereign Citizen Movement are becoming bigger? Or are they examples of many smaller but similar groups?

reply to post by hawkiye


Dunn & Bradstreet is a public records aggregator/plant.

Just because something is put on public record doesn't make it legitimate. In some areas of the country, for example, I could file a UCC-1 Financing Statement listing "Darth Vader" as the debtor and "Emperor Palpatine" as the Secured Party. I could also put the Death Star as the collateral, and attach various exhibits containing blueprints.

Under revised article 9, signatures are no longer required. I could pay in cash, and chuckle on my way out the door that "Vader, Darth" is now on public record.

This would be considered a "bogus" or "fraudulent" filing in some states, because obviously none of that is real. In some jurisdictions this can carry jail time and or/fines.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


This is very true.

More often than not, these people are running away from large sums of debt. Credit cards, bad mortgages, child support, and income tax.

These are desperate people (generally conservative and rural) that buy into a "magic bullet" scheme. They tend to wrap themselves into a feeling of false security, based on the pseudo-legalese they've convinced themselves with.

reply to post by MystikMushroom

You wouldn't want to buy a jet ski that hasn't been paid off yet, would you?

no, i wouldn't.
however, once i have paid for it, the government has no authority or right to confiscate, remove, abscond or claim against my property, ever, unless i grant such authority.

however, by accepting 'citizen' status, i have voluntarily relinquished said ownership (and simultaneously granted 'authority') regardless of the payment record.
property taxes are a good example of just how bad this has become.

ppl are losing their homes over 2-3yrs of non-paid property taxes (that fluctuate with 'speculation' rather intrinsic value) ... even though they've 'owned' the property out-right for generations.

and this is one serious imbalance that must be set straight ... the people inherited these lands, not government.