The One People's Public Trust & Sovereign Citizens Movement Scams Broken Down.

reply to post by Mkoll

It is clear that you think your worldview is the most valid and that you think everybody should feel the same way you do on this.

this isn't about 'feelings' ... it is about facts.
if you are not willing to delve into them to discover your own truth, that is your problem to resolve. if you are here contributing, you have the ability, question is, do you have the desire or motivation ?

if not, enjoy your delusion ... many all over the world willfully share your misery.

reply to post by Mkoll


Again, is this what people got from my post?

It is clear that you think your worldview is the most valid and that you think everybody should feel the same way you do on this

I think, no, I am sure, that if anyone would care to look back that you would see that I encourage everyone to take all in and come to their own conclusions. I ask you all, who of us here seem to want people to follow THEIR train of thought? Your turn Mkoll!



ETA: I think you are defeating your purpose drawing attention to who wants what. You really should quit while you are merely behind!

reply to post by IntrinsicMotivation


Well, good luck with all of that. People like you take the law out of context to fit your agenda. This is why, in the end, after it's "examined" and wastes manpower and tax-payer money...you always loose.

People like you are well known to throw fancy-dancy pseudo-legalese to confuse and convince people of your intelectual superiority.

As I have said. If the UCC and all of this "redemption" stuff actually worked; millionaires and billionaires would be doing it, and it would be available publicly at your country recorder's office.

But it's not happening. You would think with these people -- these .01% people -- they would be privy and take advantage of a little known loop-hole, and a"truth" hidden in plain sight, right?

You can make your "logical, 'legal' argument based on case law" all you want, but our current legal system doesn't exactly work like that.

In the end, if your goal is to buy a decade of time without paying taxes or child support or any debt, and eventually end up in jail -- then this sounds like your deal.

Originally posted by fourthmeal
Faith = restored on Charles Miller,

So you have faith in someone convicted for fraud, jailed for 12 years for that fraud, then after he is released he is running with another scam....

As to those links you posted, I love where Heather claims

"NO ONE GOES TO JAIL WITHOUT GIVING THEIR OWN CONSET TO IT"....

So Williams gave his consent to be jailed for 12 years?

then she claims

"Congress was canceled and does not exist accept in the vapors that are still visible"

....

So not only has this group of wannabe dictators thrown Obama out and sworn in Boehner, they have also thrown out all of the duly elected members of Congress....

Someone points out how silly all heathers claims are...

"Anonymous15 January 2013 17:17
If the predicted event happens (and just what that event is supposed to be is now darn-near indecipherable as well) then no one will care that the press release is written in the style of Nostradamus on acid."

No, I am not making that up, that is what was said.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I've honestly lost track of who this reply is to. It's 4:30 AM here and my faculties don't have enough caffeine on board yet to make me want to go back a dozen pages to seek out the member who said these things...

But to have my FBI warning replied to with some psychobabble about the FBI being an illegitimate fiction representing the US Government - yet another illegitimate fiction ( paraphrasing I believe ) - entertained the Hell out of me and quite possibly put me in a jovial mood for the rest of my day.

I watched about an hour of the first Carl Miller video linked and saw the error inherent to the argument. I also have watched several of the other Youtube vids supplied - one that stands out is a supposed courtroom case, involving a suspended drivers license, filmed through some sort of fabric.

Regarding the courtroom video. Very typical of the sovereign movement. Misrepresentation of what actually happens. Imagine it. You're a Judge in a minor traffic court. Small potato land. In walks some guy who drops a huge file of legally irrelevant documents on your desks and starts talking out of his backside. What to do? In truth, sometimes the judges get sick of it and throw the book at the person. But sometimes the Judge is just so fed up that the easiest out is to simply drop the minor charge to get rid of the person. This is a victory, I suppose, but not one based upon the merits of the veracity of any legal claim. Rather upon the merits of being a pain in the ass.

The same strategy works ( and tragically fails ) in any argument. If you buy a TV that breaks six months out of warranty and you show up at Wal Mart making a huge stink? Sometimes they'll exchange it just to get rid of you - other times they won't. Their policy says that they don't have to do so - but if you're loud enough and cause enough of a disruption? Sometimes they'll take the loss just to make you go away so that the other customers are not inconvenienced.

Same applies here.

Again... touting this as some kind of proof of concept is just misleading and disingenuous.

As for Carl Miller video? It is true that all US law is grounded in the Constitution. But that is a gross oversimplification to be sure. Law is also grounded in precedent - 237 years worth of collected interpretation of the Constitution. The sum of which fills libraries and requires years of study just to begin to understand. It's not something you can carry in your front pocket. Mr Miller does a great job ( at least in the part I watched ) of skirting past this fact, and minimizing it, during his presentation.

The claims of paid disinformation agents having some sort of agenda here do not surprise me. This is the last bastion in nearly every ATS argument and can be found in every forum. Apparently I, myself, am a very wealthy man - as, according to ATS, NASA sends me a check to proliferate the false belief that we landed upon the moon, The DNC pays me to post liberal opinions, Cybercommand pays me to post threads against them - thus making me an agent provocateur on their behalf, and ATS pays me to deny, over and over again, that I have any involvement with the NSA.

All this money coming to a disabled guy in Georgia. I must be living the good life. Huh?

In reality I'm just a guy who speaks his mind and conscience. That's it. Hey, if you want to go before a Judge, in any matter, and try this? Go ahead! I've done my best to dissuade you - so my conscience is sated. Just do me a favor and don't be two faced enough to turn around and seek to demonize ATS after it all goes horribly wrong. The responsible people in this community did try to counsel you against it.

~Heff

reply to post by MystikMushroom


This is my last response to this thread.

Once again I never took a side in this debate involving the OPT (look at my post, this is the first one I mention OPT).

Do I trust the legal system? When I see true balance and justice, maybe.

The language is very important. I quoted it word for word from their books. If you do not think the language is important, then go look at how my tribal ancestors were screwed outta their land by bogus treaties. This system has no honor in it.

A judge once told me “ignorance of the law is no excuse.” He was right. I trusted the lawyers, only to find out they were breaking the law.

I see you pointed out a loop hole like they do not exist. Let’s use some common sense and think about that. They write the laws and construct the legal language. You do not think that they do not leave themselves some wiggle room in there?

When I see officials held to the average citizens experiance in the system, I will gain faith in it again.

And from Forthmeal's own post....

Trustees, specifically Charles C. Miller, has already given notice of slavery claim and equity call duly served on all appropriate parties. The trustees are ready, willing and able to receive offers of final settlement and appointments to negotiate mitigation of civil damages.

Charles C Miller, a con man who tried to cash a ton of checks drawn on the Federal Reserve through some strange UCC law, using fabricated checks of his own making. Now sitting in Federal Prison for that and a host of other charges.

This people, is why this thread was started, this is the reason behind it, because this, like the Republic for the United States, like Redeeming in Lawful Money, like Accepted for Value, and a HOST of other UCC scams and Sovereign nonsense gets people into trouble for not truly understanding exactly what it is they are trying.

So let's one last time realize something, The Federal Government was not foreclosed upon, to think that you don't have to listen to them because the OPPT says so and the Galactic Federation Of Light supports it through their Ashtar Command, you will go to jail if you tell any Federal office that they don't exist because they are foreclosed upon or some sort of corporate fiction, I can almost guarantee that. Don't believe it, try it when your taxes are due or when the FBI comes looking for information on whatever (they do ask regular citizens about other things ya know) it's just gonna get you in a ton of deep poo.

John Bohener was never installed as Interim President and the OPPT did not stop the announcement from being made public, Obama is not bound by their rules and their trust, I could go on but you get the point, the base of a really good scam, is to make up stories that are just so out there that some will believe it because it couldn't be true..

Archive of Court Cases won by people around the world. 0 0

That's how many cases the OPPT has won, ZERO.nada, zilch.

Why? Because it's all a scam...

Seriously people, ask yourselves.. Can a startup out of nowhere trust, actually file a few bits of paper, order the arrest of every Federal Employee and nullify the entire government? No, they can't. It just is simply not possible. And while they are now just an annoyance, the more people that try to file these UCC documents to get out of mortgages (one of the cases on the forum that forthmeal linked to) and other debt, the more you're going to hear about people being jailed for it..

It's just basic common sense that's being thrown out with this thing...

I agree with Ajay59, do your research, and it's going to show you exactly what it's shown me and a few others that are saying it's a scam, that it has zero basis in reality and when you look at the people behind it, they are all wither convicted felons or in the process of it.

I'd rather try to fight the fight a different way thank you, the OPPT can keep my share of the non existent pie.

Rather than bicker over the technical details, let's look at some of the philosophical assumptions that lie at the heart of the One People's Trust and their fellow travelers. One thing that springs out is that they claim to get their authority from a higher power, whether from God or aliens from Orion. This is an interesting claim, as the United States is founded on the principle that the legitimacy of its government and laws spring not from divine dispensation, but the will of the people. By claiming that they are acting on behalf of a higher power, they are implicitly rejecting the will of the people.

They claim that people are "enslaved by the system." They offer freedom. People who reject the system and work to change it are called "revolutionaries." Yet, the OPT and the Freeman movement have done nothing to change the system. Instead, they offer a "loophole" to individuals to escape the system without doing anything to change it. Indeed, they hold out the promise of being able to exploit the system, allowing a chosen few to enjoy the benefits of the system without being held accountable to it. Yes, you can enjoy endless miles of convenient, well maintained Federal highways without paying a penny in license fees or taxes. Sounds great, right?

A Jazz musician friend of mine with a BA in Theology, explained his objection to the New Age movement very eloquently. He said he objected to it because it promised personal salvation without moral exertion. That is exactly what OPT and their ilk promise in a crassly materialistic form: "You can have anything you want and don't have to pay for it."

This underlying premise should be the first thing to alert you to the fact that it is a scam. Con artists rely on their marks' greed, and willingness to cheat others. After all, the con man is doing nothing to his or her victim that the victim has not shown themselves capable of doing to others. The adage in the profession has always been: "You can't cheat an honest man."

reply to post by DJW001

One thing that springs out is that they claim to get their authority from a higher power, whether from God or aliens from Orion. This is an interesting claim, as the United States is founded on the principle that the legitimacy of its government and laws spring not from divine dispensation, but the will of the people. By claiming that they are acting on behalf of a higher power, they are implicitly rejecting the will of the people.

Not true, the foundation of this country was based on the idea that all humans have basic rights that have been bestowed by our creator and that governments are created and maintained to assure those rights are protected and afforded.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

reply to post by Helious


It says what it says:

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

The United States government derives its legitimacy from the "consent of the governed," not the will of the "creator."

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Helious

 

It says what it says:

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

The United States government derives its legitimacy from the "consent of the governed," not the will of the "creator."

No, it says the reason there even is a United States government is to secure the rights we have been given by our creator.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

reply to post by vkey08


Vickey, first off, awesome avatar. Really.

Second, The One People's Trust, is anything but. I think it was an owner that started a good thread about it's illegal actions.

Why people are still espousing the actions is baffling

All of these OPPT supporters love the idea of "being free" and "owning themselves." Sounds like a bad infomercial for a multilevel marketing scam. Is it any surprise that those who have guided them in their way are sitting in an 8 by 10 cell for years at a time?

When I start seeing court cases being won by the Freemen and OPPT guys, I'll start giving some respect. Until then, I'll just continue watching the delusionals march their way to a jail cell.

I found something interesting as I was going through the paperwork I have stashed around my home office.

The real things the UCC forms the OPPT are used for and how they are twisted to be used for nefarious purposes..

So here goes, hopefully without too much flamage.

UCC FILINGS

The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) was first published in 1952 as part of an effort to help standardize commercial transactions throughout the US. Sovereign citizens commonly use the following legitimate UCC forms as part of fraudulent filings:

• UCC-1 - A financial form used to secure a loan under the provisions of the UCC. - Sovereigns use this document to create a public and private notice of superior security interest, claims, or liens on collateral. The Secured party is listed as the filer or another person whom is entering the contract. The Debtor is responsible for the monetary payment and is listed as officially acknowledging the contract. - These documents are filed to complete a security interest and establish priority of collateral. - UCC-1 filings protect the Secured party’s interest in the collateral offered by a Debtor for a loan.

• UCC-3 - A form filed as evidence of an assignment, release, or change in the original UCC-1. - UCC-3 filings can be used both legitimately and by sovereign citizens to terminate a UCC-1, assign a new Secured party, change the Debtor or Secured party information, or to change the collateral requested in the initial filing.

• UCC-3AD - A form filed to authorize amendments listed in the UCC-3. - Sovereign citizens are known to file UCC-3 Addendums to pay specific debts.

• General Tactics Using UCCs - The sovereign citizen files a UCC naming themselves as both the Secured party and Debtor. - This action is believed to “lock” their assets. - Sovereign citizens believe “locking” their asset will require them to “pay” themselves before other creditors may claim assets.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by vkey08

 

Vickey, first off, awesome avatar. Really.

Second, The One People's Trust, is anything but. I think it was an owner that started a good thread about it's illegal actions.

Why people are still espousing the actions is baffling

Beez: Firstly, glad you like the new avvie I thought you would comment LOL

Secondly, Crackeur was the one who started the thread on this being a scam initially, I expanded on it with permission because of the correlations with other scams.. The people continuing to push this, seem to think they can literally get something for nothing, and that the OPPT has freed them from the evil evil government by foreclosing on the government, so they no longer have to listen to laws, congress etc et al nunc nunc preatra preatorian senators caesar pizza pizza.

It's been interesting reading about all of these UCC scams, i never realized how many of them were out there..

reply to post by vkey08


Vkey, I tried to point out the actual use of the UCC docs but they are lost on the folks who promote these kinds of scams because, according to them, we are operating under Maritime Law or Common Law or Monster-in-Law rules.


Here's an odd question for the crowd - If TOPPT and other con artists tell you that we are operating under Maritime Law (or any other law that negates the laws of the US), wouldn't that make the UCC documents pointless since they are based on US laws ?

In other words, you can't throw our laws out the window and then use them for your hairbrained schemes.

reply to post by vkey08
The reality is that we are born free and everything is free and available in abundance. Doesn't necessarily mean that I need all of it for myself or that I want all of it. I think mostly we just want to experience a lot of different things that this world has to offer, we have unfortunately made it horribly restricted so that only those who exploit others the most can experience all that it has to offer and claim most of it for themselves and leave the rest to fight for the leftovers.

Greed, money and material hoarding has turned this place to the polar opposite of it's true potential. With knowledge and love we can have do away with all of those and still live in a perfect paradise where we live in material abundance but the with greed out of the equation we will not necessarily need material things to fill the empty space were natural happiness usually is. Currently we have systems that redistribute resources depending on certain conditions with very little humanity applied to it but we have the potential to share out of pure human kindness which is a much better solution, from human to human until we come around full circle.

Here is a scientific study that plays nicely into this discussion

reply to post by Crakeur

According to a post by forthmeal yesterday (here), the system (UCC setup by the evil people) has some sort of freewill snare and it is all very multi-dimensional and you need to reach into the spiritual to fully grasp it.

So... there's that.

reply to post by Eyesa2diffcolors


Video does not exist... I would check the URL..