Christopher Dorner Manhunt : Bringin' Out the Drones

if the drones have only cameras on them who cares. but if they are deploying fully loaded drones on our own soil then that is a problem

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

The fuel alone and the altitude make it a stupid choice. The reason they did it in ND is cuz that was next door to the only base in the USA with DHS Predator drones.

So why the hell would they use them in Texas....

Or are you going to overlook that point too?

Texas is border control...and at 1200 miles of border with Mexico Texas has more frontage than any state in the union.

Still don't get the difference between patrolling 1200 miles of border and searching a mountain side for single person?

Bring me back some EVIDENCE that DHS loaned a Predator Drone to LAPD to find Dorner, until then I call BS...cuz it makes no sense.

oh great.
the US is now spending money to try and catch this fool that killed a hand full of people?
...and some people have a license to kill?

i don't identify them as "cops" or anything. factory worker, janitor, cook at a burger joint...or even a person from another country.
same thing.
potato, poe-tato, french fries.
STOP with the kerfuffle!!!

IMO this is psychological warfare trying to get us to get use to seeing all this, so then it becomes "normal"..

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

The fuel alone and the altitude make it a stupid choice. The reason they did it in ND is cuz that was next door to the only base in the USA with DHS Predator drones.

So why the hell would they use them in Texas....

Or are you going to overlook that point too?

Texas is border control...and at 1200 miles of border with Mexico Texas has more frontage than any state in the union.

Still don't get the difference between patrolling 1200 miles of border and searching a mountain side for single person?

Bring me back some EVIDENCE that DHS loaned a Predator Drone to LAPD to find Dorner, until then I call BS...cuz it makes no sense.

You are the same poster that said that there are just two Predators stationed in North Dakota, right?

Why on earth would the DOD break constituional law and deploy a multi-million dollar drone complete with support staff? If the need is not there?...A rinky dink UAV does the trick.

There it is^^^, you actually said they don't fly over the US at all that it would be unconstitutional.

Now you want to make the Texas example a border monitoring thing? I guess that means that there are more than two now, and they are located at other than one base in ND.
Read the Washington Times article again. The DHS is urging local law enforcement agencies to use their drones, for other than border monitoring use.
Remember Arizona? Where the feds told local law enforcement that they shouldn't be involved with stopping illegal aliens?

Whatever.

This isn't a great first target considering the available targeting technology, and considering the nature of human beings and how they classify things.

Let me point out the obvious: Dorner is a black man. Have you seen videos of people of color who have a hard time with facial recognition software on their computers? The cameras can't find their faces. Unless it's a really bright day outside, the computer will have a hard time finding the right target. The technology's recognition capability is that of a small dog: it just barks at whatever is dark. It doesn't matter if you have darker skin, or you are wearing a black jacket. The camera eye is stupid.

If it's not the computer, it's the people! The mentality of people looking for Dorner, or reading about Dorner, is not all pro black history month that pro-MLKJ TV documentaries would have you believe. They're looking for a tall overweight black guy with brown eyes and no hair. That is how dumb the description goes, and the public's paranoia about that description just went out of politically correct land.

Maybe a few psychic detectives will tune into his Christian high school upbringing and so will be able to discount all the other tall overweight black male fugitives out there already, in order to tune into his location. Maybe a few crooked types will be able to smell the air of former law enforcement to set off their radar and have them hiding behind buildings when he walks by.

There must be hundreds of thousands of tall overweight black men on guard right now fearing they are going to be blown to pieces by a drone piloted by a potentially racist agency with a bad discernment. They're going to have to wear T-shirts that say "I am not Christopher Dorner". What else can be done if you can't take it personally and get angry about it?

An armed drone? What happened to innocent until proven guilty in a court of law with a jury of one's peers? The LAPD is psychotic, again.

Look at LAPD's most wanted page, where there must be over a hundred faces: www.lapdonline.org...

And they want to get this guy first?

reply to post by Indigo5

Still don't get the difference between patrolling 1200 miles of border and searching a mountain side for single person?

Yes, I do.
Searching 1200 miles of border for someone that may not be there vs searching a single mountain for one person that you actually have reason to believe is there.
Which would be more fruitful?

Do you understand how much they want to catch this guy? They shot at an 89 year old woman because she apparently resembled him.

David Perdue was on his way to sneak in some surfing before work Thursday morning when police flagged him down. They asked who he was and where he was headed, then sent him on his way. Seconds later, Perdue's attorney said, a Torrance police cruiser slammed into his pickup and officers opened fire; none of the bullets struck Perdue. His pickup, police later explained, matched the description of the one belonging to Christopher Jordan Dorner — the ex-cop who has evaded authorities after allegedly killing three and wounding two more. But the pickups were different makes and colors. And Perdue looks nothing like Dorner: He's several inches shorter and about a hundred pounds lighter. And Perdue is white; Dorner is black.

Source: LA Times

That is one of three separate incidents where they shot at people thinking it was him. Shoot first ask questions later. Maybe if they want to get that much, they would bother to bring a quality drone in to look for him.

You know, the drones that didn't exist (why that would be unconstitutional)... then there were two in North Dakota( that they only used for a cattle rustling case because there were there)... then they're in Texas....

Originally posted by butcherguy

Why on earth would the DOD break constituional law and deploy a multi-million dollar drone complete with support staff? If the need is not there?...A rinky dink UAV does the trick.

There it is^^^, you actually said they don't fly over the US at all that it would be unconstitutional.

No I said the DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE can not conduct Drone operations aimed at US citizens on US Soil ...Posse Comitatus.

But you use "they" like folks use "drone"...as conveniently non-specific.

So the Department of Homeland Security...which includes BORDER CONTROL...uses drones? THAT makes sense...cuz there are THOUSANDS of miles of border to patrol.

For a single search or rescue on the side of a single mountain....A much cheaper and frankly more efffective UAV would make sense for a whole slew of reasons.

But you say....HEY...the DHS loaned a Predator drone to the cops in North Dakota...yep they did..once and it was stupid...and they simply diverted the path of the drone to do a fly-by on the rancher who WAS ALSO in North Dakota...DHS just swerved the drone off course and took some pics and they are still in court because of it....But again...you THINIK that the DHS is going to send a Predator Drone to do a lesser job than a smaller UAV that typical PDs use to Bear Mountain to look for a single man over a few miles...all at great expense...lesser effectiveness than $1k UAV and at risk of further legal troubles?

But...But they have Predator drones in Texas? They also have the largest exposed border in the USA that needs to be watched. BORDER CONTROL.

Good for you...but I'll keep my thinking hat on...thanks though.

reply to post by Indigo5

I've been reading your posts.

You made fun when I said that Predators are used in the US and posted your little comment about the DOD.
When I posted the article showing that the DHS was pushing their Predator drones, you slipped and slid like a snake, saying that it was not logical.
You made a post alluding that there were only two predator drones based in North Dakota, we saw that that wasn't true.
You can keep doing your snake wiggle.
I don't have time to feed you any more today.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Still don't get the difference between patrolling 1200 miles of border and searching a mountain side for single person?

Yes, I do.
Searching 1200 miles of border for someone that may not be there vs searching a single mountain for one person that you actually have reason to believe is there.
Which would be more fruitful?

Again...Fruitful?...A UAV about the size I posted. It flies close to the ground and gets better penetration of tree cover. A Predator drone would be an insanely more expensive and less effective option for searching a single mountain...For effs sake they could have 5 real-live helicopters with FLIR scope the mountain for less cost than a Predator drone. If they used UAVs at all it would be of the RC Hobbyist type...again...just doing the thinking thing, I get the attraction to "evil gov" conspiracy and "drones are everywhere!"...and there are reasons that the drone program needs to be scrutinized...but this fails all rational thought to me. No I do not believe that the LAPD recruited Predator Drones from Homeland Security to find Dorner...and yes, they do want to get him...and yes the LAPD are effed up and shooting innocent folks...trigger happy retards...but all of that doesn't mean I have to stop thinking.

reply to post by Indigo5

But you say....HEY...the DHS loaned a Predator drone to the cops in North Dakota...yep they did..once and it was stupid

Better go back and read the Washington times article again.

It happened more than once. It may have been stupid, but it didn't just happen once. Numerous local law enforcement agencies were approached, not the other way around.

If you read it, and comprehended it, you are being untruthful here.

reply to post by Indigo5

A Predator drone would be an insanely more expensive and less effective option for searching a single mountain...For effs sake they could have 5 real-live helicopters with FLIR scope the mountain for less cost than a Predator drone. I

Yet the DHS is pitching the use of their Predator drones all over and want to buy more.

Where's the logic?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

I've been reading your posts.

You made fun when I said that Predators are used in the US and posted your little comment about the DOD.

Correct DOD is forbidden from doing Drone ops on us soil

Originally posted by butcherguy
When I posted the article showing that the DHS was pushing their Predator drones, you slipped and slid like a snake, saying that it was not logical.

DHS...not DOD...does have drones, but for border control, which is logical for covering several thousands of miles.

Originally posted by butcherguy
You made a post alluding that there were only two predator drones based in North Dakota, we saw that that wasn't true.

You posted your example of a drone being used to get pics of a rancher in NORTH DAKOTA who was in a stand-off with SWAT. I pointed out that was an unusual circumstance since it was right near the NORTH DAKOTA base where the drones were launched, A singular case and a very different one than deploying them to California for a manhunt...and that the DHS is still getting batted around in court for that little flight diversion to help the SWAT team next door to thier base.

Sorry if my "thinking" thing frustrates you.

Surprisingly, Wikipedia is an enlightening resource on the general capabilities, characteristics, and users of these drones.

Here's the page for the Predator drone - en.wikipedia.org...

And here's the page for its big brother the Reaper UCAV - en.wikipedia.org...

The Predator page above includes a little bit of information on the use of US military and Civilian MQ-1 airframes in a search and rescue role on US soil -

On May 18, 2006, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) issued a certificate of authorization which will allow the M/RQ-1 and M/RQ-9 aircraft to be used within U.S. civilian airspace to search for survivors of disasters. Requests had been made in 2005 for the aircraft to be used in search and rescue operations following Hurricane Katrina, but because there was no FAA authorization in place at the time, the assets were not used. The Predator's infrared camera with digitally-enhanced zoom has the capability of identifying the heat signature of a human body from an altitude of 3 km (10,000 ft), making the aircraft an ideal search and rescue tool.

Both the Predator and the Reaper are now certified for flight operations over US civilian airspace. Deployment of the Predator's sensor package in support of a law enforcement manhunt wouldn't breach Posse Comitatus. It's fundamentally no different to providing search and rescue support. if, on the other hand an armed M/RQ-9 Reaper was deployed, then that's a different story - although an unarmed reaper is entirely feasible since they are in use by CBP on the southern border.

Note also from the Wikipedia page that the Reaper is in use by both Italy and Australia for law enforcement and border patrol operations - these foreign precedents for larger scale civilian agency use of that weapons platform (unarmed configuration) is telling and seems to gel with POTUS' proposed programs.

Operationally, the use of a Predator in a manhunt in complex terrain is not a bad idea. 40 hours loitering on station with a highly advanced sensor package makes it very difficult for the bad guy to get away. of course, it's almost useless in an urban area due to all the 'false positives", but in a wooded or desert area, looking for a lone nutcase/survivalist/terrorist/insurgent it's probably the best tool for the job. I'm sure there's a lesson in there somewhere

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

But you say....HEY...the DHS loaned a Predator drone to the cops in North Dakota...yep they did..once and it was stupid

Better go back and read the Washington times article again.

It happened more than once. It may have been stupid, but it didn't just happen once. Numerous local law enforcement agencies were approached, not the other way around.

If you read it, and comprehended it, you are being untruthful here.

Going back and reading the article which seems to be lacking substance for the claim that it has happened multiple times aside from the ND incident.

Did see this

In addition, DHS recently began distributing $4 million in grants to help local law enforcement buy its own, smaller versions of drones, opening a new market for politically connected drone makers as the wars overseas shrink.

Which affirms my contention that RC UAVs are better suited fro law enforcement and search and rescue.

It claims this...but the article links are dead...wanna help me out with evidence of your claim? Where is the article by the "Washington Guardian" that purportedly has the evidence that DHS has been deploying drones to assist Law Enforcement

Since then, the Washington Guardian has confirmed, DHS and its Customs and Border Protection agency have deployed drones — originally bought to guard America’s borders — to assist local law enforcement and other federal agencies on several occasions

Read more: www.washingtontimes.com...

Okay tracked down the Wash Guardian...Which is a painfully bias/right wing/Obama-Dem hating source...but...
www.washingtonguardian.com...

But not the article? Where is it? Again see the excerpt above...broken link in the article...show me where...show me the actual evidence..or even the article to start. Cuz simply saying "the Washington Guardian" showed...doesn't mean they showed anything....more so now that I see what kind of News Source the Washington Guardian is.

Welcome to City 17, it's safer here.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

A Predator drone would be an insanely more expensive and less effective option for searching a single mountain...For effs sake they could have 5 real-live helicopters with FLIR scope the mountain for less cost than a Predator drone. I

Yet the DHS is pitching the use of their Predator drones all over and want to buy more.

Where's the logic?

Money.

It really isnt hard to figure out.

Extra extra read all about it. Company wants to sell product.

I wonder if they'll get him with a "double tap"?

You know - hit him first, and then send in a second drone ten minutes later and take out all the people who went in to help. Like they do everywhere else in the world...

Rewey

lol they are going to use drones because they have already wounded 4 people by "accident". They showed the public the police are incompetent with all the highly advanced weaponry they already own so we should just let them fire missiles at him lol really great idea. Because it's too dangerous wearing a bullet proof vest and having a baton, tazer, pepper spray, shot gun, 9 mm, ar15, handcuffs, patrol car with ramming bumper, Tank, armored vehicles, hollow points, out numbering the guy 100,000 of thousands to one, helicopters,machines that can see through walls, wire tapping lol with all that if they cant find him we should just fire the whole lot of them and start over

There have been many people here in this thread and the other drone thread saying that the police would only use police drones in this manhunt and that they would never deploy predator drones on US soil. Well here is the story proving that not only will they, but they already have!

In June 2011 a county sheriff in North Dakota was trying to track down three men, possibly carrying guns, in connection with some missing cows. He had a lot of ground to cover, so—as one does—he called in a Predator drone from a local Air Force base. It not only spotted the men but could see that they were in fact unarmed. It was the first time a Predator had been involved in the arrest of U.S. citizens.

Source (Close to bottom and links to full Time article)

ETA* @xedocodex this proves as I stated before that through the proper channels that they could get predator drones deployed. Keep selling your opinion as fact though.

Originally posted by SpaDe_
There have been many people here in this thread and the other drone thread saying that the police would only use police drones in this manhunt and that they would never deploy predator drones on US soil. Well here is the story proving that not only will they, but they already have!

In June 2011 a county sheriff in North Dakota was trying to track down three men, possibly carrying guns, in connection with some missing cows. He had a lot of ground to cover, so—as one does—he called in a Predator drone from a local Air Force base. It not only spotted the men but could see that they were in fact unarmed. It was the first time a Predator had been involved in the arrest of U.S. citizens.

Source (Close to bottom and links to full Time article)

No, that is not what people are saying.

We are saying the FACTS as we know them now is that they are only using the police drones with thermal cameras.

People seem to have a hard time figuring out what a FACT is. I don't speculate on what may happen in the future, I'm not psychic.