Christopher Dorner Manhunt : Bringin' Out the Drones

Originally posted by ThinkingCap
reply to post by Aleister

 

The point is not that they are going to pull a Pakistan on the town he's hiding in.

The point is, is that this sets a major precedent for future usage of this technology; of which is draconian in it's very nature.

edit on 10-2-2013 by ThinkingCap because: (no reason given)

Just asking...what is the difference between a manned aircraft equipped with thermal and an unmanned aircraft?

"Drone" is a big term..We aren't talking military drone here equipped with missles.

Are you aware that anyone with a few hundred dollars can buy a "drone" with a visit to an RC Hobby shop?

This comes with GPS...the works..



Just saying, the drone program needs scrutiny, but the kind of drone they might employ for search purposes isn't the kind of drone you are likely picturing.

reply to post by Indigo5

"Drone" is a big term..We aren't talking military drone here equipped with missles.

True, there has been no indication that missiles have been mounted on the drones they are using.

But , there was a post earlier in the thread linking to police radio chatter several days ago where they were asking about the DHS drones that would be assisting in the search.

The DHS has Predator drones, the same military drones that are used in Afghanistan.

Note, I didn't say they are armed.... but they do have that capability.

muslim burial also consists of no witnesses shall see the face.
could be the drone will just blast a death ray at him - then cremation could become the official muslim burial - these rituals change at lightning speed - generally(just kidding)

all around sad stuff - i hope he is found soon - killing kids and wives or any innocents serves no purpose.
RIP

reply to post by butcherguy


Just sayin...here is the "drone" that the LAPD was looking at last year...Not quite Afghanistan ready IMO...




newsworldwide.wordpress.com...


EDIT to add:

The FAA this week said that police departments could test out surveillance drones as long as they're lighter than 4.4 pounds and fly below a 400 foot ceiling.

blogs.laweekly.com...

reply to post by Indigo5

Yes, a photo of one of those actually flying was already posted.

The DHS says that they don't have a 'loan a drone' program, but I linked an article from the Washington Times that quoted non-federal law enforcement agencies as having been approached by DHS officials, urging them to take advantage of the availability of their drones.

From your link:

As previously reported by KNX1070 in our series “The Age of Drones,” both the LAPD and the Los Angeles County Sheriff have been looking into buying drones but neither agency has yet to actually purchase one, they say.

So as of the time that photo was taken, they didn't even own one of those.

reply to post by guymontag


You really need to get ahold of yourself and stop accusing others of saying things that they didn’t. The description of bunkers and so forth is purely conjecture on your part unless you have some proof. Well do you have any proof? Otherwise you are projecting your fear onto others.
Also did you really say?

Also, yes I am sensitive, I am sensitive to the fact that ATS is turning into a toilet like the rest of the internet where you can't state your opinion

guymontag
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Just saying.

reply to post by butcherguy


I'll believe it when there is actual evidence. Military grade Drones require extensive training and the only folks that train for that is DOD....and the DOD is not going to hand over a multi-million dollar drone to a local cop to play with. As it stands...the last RC grade...Radioshack 'drone" the LAPD tried, they crashed it into a car.

DHS might have similair cheap drones for snapping pics...just like CA real estate agents use? But as far as actual "Drones" like DOD/Military...it fails the logic test. The DOD by law can't deploy for civilian purposes.

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Just sayin...here is the "drone" that the LAPD was looking at last year...Not quite Afghanistan ready IMO...

newsworldwide.wordpress.com...

edit on 11-2-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

EDIT to add:

The FAA this week said that police departments could test out surveillance drones as long as they're lighter than 4.4 pounds and fly below a 400 foot ceiling.

blogs.laweekly.com...

edit on 11-2-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

Just so everyone is clear on it... the last link you posted was from May of 2012.

Have you verified that these drones carry infrared cameras?

I can mention, people who made 'drones', they will never make decisions about their usage...
And, than, engineers are guilty for abuses

Anyone else will decide, lawyers, professional cops, professional military, even medicals and priests, only those who made it will be excluded from... OR, UNLETTERED J* WILL DECIDE?

LOOK, I AM REALY LOOKING FOR A TROUBLE... THIS IS FROM MY STUDENT INDEX ON ELECTROTECH, BELGRADE, SERBIA, YU...






That.

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by butcherguy

 

I'll believe it when there is actual evidence. Military grade Drones require extensive training and the only folks that train for that is DOD....and the DOD is not going to hand over a multi-million dollar drone to a local cop to play with. As it stands...the last RC grade...Radioshack 'drone" the LAPD tried, they crashed it into a car.

DHS might have similair cheap drones for snapping pics...just like CA real estate agents use? But as far as actual "Drones" like DOD/Military...it fails the logic test. The DOD by law can't deploy for civilian purposes.

Read this link that I already posted:

“We’ve seen bits and pieces of information on CBP’s Predator drones, but Americans deserve the full story,” said Jennifer Lynch, a lawyer for the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) that studies privacy issues and has sought information on drone use in the United States. “Drones are a powerful surveillance tool that can be used to gather extensive data about you and your activities. The public needs to know more about how and why these Predator drones are being used to watch U.S. citizens

You can see that these are Predator drones that we are talking about.

"Drones" like DOD/Military...it fails the logic test.

So much for your logic, I guess.

reply to post by butcherguy


Appreciate the clarity..

The Original article specified "spy drones"...Do I know if they carry infrared? No, but you can rig one via an RC shop, so I assume as much. Like I said...Real Estate agents in CA use "spy drones"...simply remote control aircraft with a camera....how ahrd is it to put an infra-red lense on one.

The FAA told police that they can't fly over 400 feet and the craft need to be less than 5 pounds..

I can hunt for other "drone" aka rc toy planes with cameras that are widely used for search and rescue...??

Why on earth would the DOD break constituional law and deploy a multi-million dollar drone complete with support staff? If the need is not there?...A rinky dink UAV does the trick.

Not getting the logic here. Let me know what else you want me to hunt down if you still think that a full grade DOD drone is flying over LA.

reply to post by Indigo5

Not getting the logic here. Let me know what else you want me to hunt down if you still think that a full grade DOD drone is flying over LA.

Did you not read the article, or did you not understand it? It quotes law enforcement officials as saying that they used Predator drones supplied by DHS.

From the same Washington Times link....

“The Predator drone helps us pull back and (gives us) the ability to control the perimeter and de-escalate the scene significantly,” Macki explained. “The (drones) have been a tremendous asset to our high-risk operations.” An added bonus for law enforcement is that so far federal officials haven’t asked the local cops to repay the costs. “We have not been charged by CBP for the use of the Predator drone,” Macki said.

They have already been flying over plenty of other parts of the country... why not LA?

Why on earth would the DOD break constituional law

Just for clarity.... (you will notice it in the article) it isn't the DOD, it is the DHS. So maybe not constitutionality issues.

reply to post by butcherguy


OK You are talking about the two drones based in ND?

U.S. Department of Homeland Security drones do enter Washington airspace occasionally, patrolling the Canadian border east of the Cascade mountains. The two 10,000-pound Predator-B unmanned aircraft are based in North Dakota.

Read more: www.foxnews.com...

You think one of these drones have been deployed to find Dorner?

Given that the same can be done with the thousands of RC/Infra-red rinky dink UAVs...hobbyist or otherwise, I still don't buy that they would deploy a multi-million dollar aircraft...just cuz they can.

You are certainly welcome to the opinion, but I'll wait for evidence, because I still don't see any logic in it.

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by butcherguy

 

OK You are talking about the two drones based in ND?

U.S. Department of Homeland Security drones do enter Washington airspace occasionally, patrolling the Canadian border east of the Cascade mountains. The two 10,000-pound Predator-B unmanned aircraft are based in North Dakota.

Read more: www.foxnews.com...

You think one of these drones have been deployed to find Dorner?

Given that the same can be done with the thousands of RC/Infra-red rinky dink UAVs...hobbyist or otherwise, I still don't buy that they would deploy a multi-million dollar aircraft...just cuz they can.

You are certainly welcome to the opinion, but I'll wait for evidence, because I still don't see any logic in it.

Did you read the article that I linked?
There have been cases where the Predators have been used in many areas other than North Dakota.

The Texas Rangers, another local police agency, confirmed they too have summoned drones on several occasions from CPB, but said they do not keep records of how often. A recent report by DHS’s inspector general, the agency’s internal watchdog, mentioned the Rangers’ use as one of several examples in which CPB has deployed its drones for outside police agencies – both at the federal and local level.

You think one of these drones have been deployed to find Dorner?

Try this thread. It has already been linked in this thread.

More info on DHS Predator drones...

A recent story published by California Watch reported that DHS inked a new $443 million deal with über-defense contractor General Atomics to purchase 14 additional Predator drones. If (when) the new craft are delivered to DHS, there would be 24 drones in the agency’s fleet.

Source
Abit more than two that they have, and they want more.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Did you not read the article, or did you not understand it? It quotes law enforcement officials as saying that they used Predator drones supplied by DHS.

Yes, I read it. A rancher stole some cows and then got into a stand-off with SWAT in NORTH DAKOTA....the same NORTH DAKOTA where the only 2 unarmed Predator drones that DHS have to monitor borders are BASED. So the local SWAT asked the base to divert a drone over the ranch...and got hell for doing it...court cases out the yin-yang etc.

What you are suggesting is that this is common policy and that one of those two Predator Drones has been deployed to Southern California, despite the same arial recognizance being entirely within the capability of the typical RC drone that other police departments have used...plus hobbyists...plus real estate agents...

The fuel alone and the altitude make it a stupid choice. The reason they did it in ND is cuz that was next door to the only base in the USA with DHS Predator drones. If they are going to search the woods in Big Bear the can make do with a cheap, over the counter UAV...just like most Police Departments do.

Originally posted by butcherguy
More info on DHS Predator drones...

A recent story published by California Watch reported that DHS inked a new $443 million deal with über-defense contractor General Atomics to purchase 14 additional Predator drones. If (when) the new craft are delivered to DHS, there would be 24 drones in the agency’s fleet.

Source
Abit more than two that they have, and they want more.

DHS - BORDERS AND CUSTOMS....Patrolling a 2000 mile border to the south. I don't see the neccessity to scan a few square mile mountain, when it can be done well with a UAV typical of most PDs and with a whole lot less controversy.

Again...you are building a case off of dramatically incomplete information...Until we know what they are using or even if they are using a UAV...I'll defer to simple logic, it usually proves me right. If I am wrong, I will be suprised, but admit as much...but I don't see the logic in your unfounded claim. (A) DHS has drones (B) DHS flew a drone over a ranch next door to their airfield in ND once at the request of a SWAT team...thus they sent a drone to southern California to search for Dorner...when a slew of cheaper and equally effective technology was available to the local PD without any of the legal questions of controversy.

reply to post by Indigo5

The fuel alone and the altitude make it a stupid choice. The reason they did it in ND is cuz that was next door to the only base in the USA with DHS Predator drones.

So why the hell would they use them in Texas....

Or are you going to overlook that point too?

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by butcherguy
More info on DHS Predator drones...

A recent story published by California Watch reported that DHS inked a new $443 million deal with über-defense contractor General Atomics to purchase 14 additional Predator drones. If (when) the new craft are delivered to DHS, there would be 24 drones in the agency’s fleet.

Source
Abit more than two that they have, and they want more.

DHS - BORDERS AND CUSTOMS....Patrolling a 2000 mile border to the south. I don't see the neccessity to scan a few square mile mountain, when it can be done well with a UAV typical of most PDs and with a whole lot less controversy.

Again...you are building a case off of dramatically incomplete information...Until we know what they are using or even if they are using a UAV...I'll defer to simple logic, it usually proves me right. If I am wrong, I will be suprised, but admit as much...but I don't see the logic in your unfounded claim. (A) DHS has drones (B) DHS flew a drone over a ranch next door to their airfield in ND once at the request of a SWAT team...thus they sent a drone to southern California to search for Dorner...when a slew of cheaper and equally effective technology was available to the local PD without any of the legal questions of controversy.

You are the same guy that started this back and forth saying that the Feds wouldn't risk violating the Constitution by flying a military drone over the US. Right? Or was that someone else?

Now that I have shown you that groups other than the DOD fly these things.... over many different areas of the country, you still try to say that it is illogical for them to do it.

reply to post by butcherguy


They have used drones in the past to catch cattle thieves which I posted a few pages back.

eijournal.com...