Does God love everyone? Westboro says NO

Greetings... earlier I was participating in this thread HERE regarding the Westboro Baptist Church leader that quit. I decided to go check out the Westboro web site and of course there is just a bunch of anti-gay and anti-military stuff there. While reading through their FAQs I ran across this, and I must admit that it has raised an interesting question. First, here is what I found...

Question: "Doesn't the Bible say that God loves everyone?"

Answer:

No. You are probably thinking of John 3:16, which says no such thing. The word translated "world" in that verse (kosmos) NEVER means every individual of mankind who has ever lived (see, e.g., John 17:9). Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau, and Psalm 5:5 says that God hates all WORKERS of iniquity (e.g., fags). Here are some other examples. Given these verses, how can you say God loves everyone? Can you really say "God loves everyone" when God says "I hated Esau?" Does God love the people in hell? Or, you are thinking of "God is love." God certainly is love, toward His elect (His children). But He certainly is not love toward the reprobate (children of the devil). That's why His elect go to heaven, and the reprobate go to hell. In Romans 9:13, which says "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated", Jacob is a representative of God's elect, while Esau is a representative of the reprobate. In Romans 1, the word "reprobate" is used to describe fags. Fags are reprobate. God hates reprobates. Therefore, God hates fags. Furthermore, God specifically says that He ABHORS people who engage in sodomy (as well as other forms of sexual perversion): "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them...And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them." Leviticus 20:13,23. Understand? GOD ABHORS FAGS. God's hatred is one of His holy attributes, whereby He reveals Himself as having a fixed and immutable determination to punish the finally impenitent with eternal perdition. God's hatred is not like man's hatred. His hatred is holy, pure, unchanging, while man's hatred is a sinful, fickle emotion.

I'm not really looking to talk about homosexuality here. Westboro's feelings towards it are well known, and mine are as well if you care to look at any of my postings on this subject.. for example, HERE

The entire premise of Westboro's actions are predicated on the opinion the God DOES NOT love everyone, and that God DOES hate certain people (the unsaved). The teach and preach hatred because God did. Westboro chooses to focus that hate towards the gay community and military members, and that is a shame, but the basis for their hate is what I want to discuss... the idea that God does not love everyone.

My first instinct is to say that they are wrong, because of John 3:16 "For God so loved the world...". This would suggest that God does indeed love everyone. I have often heard the question "If God loves everyone so much then why would he send people to hell?"

I'm not supporting Westboro and their actions, in fact I find them to be deplorable heretics and they will get theirs in the end, unless they change their ways much like the woman that recently cut ties with them. I know there are some very smart Christians here on ATS, and there are several different opinions out there. So what do you think? Is God capable of hate? Does God love EVERYONE equally? Again, please don't make this thread about gay rights and the like, thanks.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
Greetings... earlier I was participating in this thread HERE regarding the Westboro Baptist Church leader that quit. I decided to go check out the Westboro web site and of course there is just a bunch of anti-gay and anti-military stuff there. While reading through their FAQs I ran across this, and I must admit that it has raised an interesting question. First, here is what I found...

Question: "Doesn't the Bible say that God loves everyone?"

Answer:

No. You are probably thinking of John 3:16, which says no such thing. The word translated "world" in that verse (kosmos) NEVER means every individual of mankind who has ever lived (see, e.g., John 17:9). Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau, and Psalm 5:5 says that God hates all WORKERS of iniquity (e.g., fags). Here are some other examples. Given these verses, how can you say God loves everyone? Can you really say "God loves everyone" when God says "I hated Esau?" Does God love the people in hell? Or, you are thinking of "God is love." God certainly is love, toward His elect (His children). But He certainly is not love toward the reprobate (children of the devil). That's why His elect go to heaven, and the reprobate go to hell. In Romans 9:13, which says "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated", Jacob is a representative of God's elect, while Esau is a representative of the reprobate. In Romans 1, the word "reprobate" is used to describe fags. Fags are reprobate. God hates reprobates. Therefore, God hates fags. Furthermore, God specifically says that He ABHORS people who engage in sodomy (as well as other forms of sexual perversion): "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them...And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them." Leviticus 20:13,23. Understand? GOD ABHORS FAGS. God's hatred is one of His holy attributes, whereby He reveals Himself as having a fixed and immutable determination to punish the finally impenitent with eternal perdition. God's hatred is not like man's hatred. His hatred is holy, pure, unchanging, while man's hatred is a sinful, fickle emotion.

I'm not really looking to talk about homosexuality here. Westboro's feelings towards it are well known, and mine are as well if you care to look at any of my postings on this subject.. for example, HERE

The entire premise of Westboro's actions are predicated on the opinion the God DOES NOT love everyone, and that God DOES hate people. The teach and preach hatred because God did. Westboro chooses to focus that hate towards the gay community and military members, and that is a shame, but the basis for their hate is what I want to discuss... the idea that God does not love everyone.

My first instinct is to say that they are wrong, because of John 3:16 "For God so loved the world...". This would suggest that God does indeed love everyone. I have often heard the question "If God loves everyone so much then why would he send people to hell?"

I'm not supporting Westboro and their actions, in fact I find them to be deplorable heretics and they will get theirs in the end, unless they change their ways much like the woman that recently cut ties with them. I know there are some very smart Christians here on ATS, and there are several different opinions out there. So what do you think? Is God capable of hate? Does God love EVERYONE equally? Again, please don't make this thread about gay rights and the like, thanks.

Yes, I think God loves everyone equally; the sad thing is that we don't have love for all sides of the spectrum just like God.

Now, is God capable of hate... Intriguing. Is today's definition of hate applicable to God?

reply to post by OptimusSubprime

My first instinct is to say that they are wrong, because of John 3:16 "For God so loved the world...". This would suggest that God does indeed love everyone. I have often heard the question "If God loves everyone so much then why would he send people to hell?"

God doesn't send people to hell...

Hell is a myth used as a fear based conversion tactic...

And honestly... who gives a flying F*** what Westborough thinks or says...

Their actions speak louder then words...

that whole little cult is clueless

If God loved and favored the Westboro Baptist Church, I think they'd be living a much more comfortable lives than the ones they're living now

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

My first instinct is to say that they are wrong, because of John 3:16 "For God so loved the world...". This would suggest that God does indeed love everyone. I have often heard the question "If God loves everyone so much then why would he send people to hell?"

God doesn't send people to hell...

Hell is a myth used as a fear based conversion tactic...

And honestly... who gives a flying F*** what Westborough thinks or says...

Their actions speak louder then words...

that whole little cult is clueless

edit on 9-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Question of inquiry: if we go under the assumption that God loves everyone equally, what makes WBC any different?

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

Question of inquiry: if we go under the assumption that God loves everyone equally, what makes WBC any different?

Just look at the stories about that church and you'll find your answers...

They only love their own kind...

And all of their hatred comes from the OT(and Paul) which has little to nothing to do with the true father of creation.

Though at least Paul understood the concept of Love... which they do not

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

Question of inquiry: if we go under the assumption that God loves everyone equally, what makes WBC any different?

Just look at the stories about that church and you'll find your answers...

They only love their own kind...

And all of their hatred comes from the OT(and Paul) which has little to nothing to do with the true father of creation.

Though at least Paul understood the concept of Love... which they do not

edit on 9-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Yes I understand that they love their own kind, but is not the same concept being applied in today's attitude towards WBC?

I will acknowledge my bias against the WBC, as I hold Christians to a higher standard, but what makes separates the WBC from any other person in the eyes of God? Anything or nothing? This has been on my mind since reading the thread about the leader of the WBC leaving.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

I will acknowledge my bias against the WBC, as I hold Christians to a higher standard, but what makes separates the WBC from any other person in the eyes of God? Anything or nothing?

Nothing...

The actions of a person does not separate them from God... that's impossible

but the actions of a person does separate God from that person...

They have free will... and they willingly break their saviour's second commandment...

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

Yes, I think God loves everyone equally; the sad thing is that we don't have love for all sides of the spectrum just like God.

But that belief contradicts the scriptures that were just posted from the WBC site. And if your beliefs contradict those scriptures, then your beliefs are not that of "God". Which makes them largely irrelevant to the subject, because they are clearly false. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying that your opinion is contradicted and overruled by the authority of the Bible.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


Jacob (Farmer) have I loved and Esau (Hunter) have I hated.

Malachi 1:2-3

2 a“I have loved you,” says the Lord. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob 3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.”

A farmer plants by work, then reaps what his work returns. The hunter scavenges the land to take. He uses what he takes for tools and clothing, yet does not return what he takes. This is symbolic of our plight as humans. We took from the tree of knowledge. We are thieves. There are those who give, which is the will of God. There are those who take and God rightfully hates Esau for this path. Giving is the will of God. Taking is the will of the thief.

How do we compare this to our day and age? See this thread concerning Christ entering the temple, overturning the financial tables of the bankers and the places of rest for peacemakers.

Global Financial Meltdown

This is the key sign Christ enters the temple (Earth) to raise the Church back up. It's also the key sign that Enoch One and Jude 1 is gearing up to happen.

Enoch

1.1 These are the words of the blessing of Enoch; according to which he
blessed the chosen and righteous who must be present on the day of
distress, which is appointed, for the removal of all the wicked and impious.
1.2 And Enoch began his story and said: -

Jude 1

11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.

12 These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”[e] 16 These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

We are due for a visitation from God to judge our works. This happens when Christ makes His enemies his footstool. These events happen to engage the final 1000 years of peace on Earth before God comes for a final judgment of the Earth. The final judgment is a consummation of Adam to mankind. The final Heaven and Earth come after this event 1000 years from now.

The righteous (Jacob) must be present on Earth to see Esau (Thief) taken from our presence. Enoch One outlines this, names who they are and shows their destiny. The entire Bible is also a document outlining this removal of the error and those who caused it.

God hates those who work against the law of love. Why shouldn't he? I would expect no less than this from the God of law and order over chaos and disunity. God works toward unity and equity for those who do the same.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

God hates those who work against the law of love.

Where did HE say God hates?

That's the OT talking my friend

Westboro says no, but I say YES. I have more spiritual authority than that entire Church put together.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

God hates those who work against the law of love.

Where did HE say God hates?

That's the OT talking my friend

Hate is not simply a verb.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Right!

Its an extremely negative vibration... And Jesus would have none of it... lol

Sure he got pissed!

but I've never found hatred in him

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

I have often heard the question "If God loves everyone so much then why would he send people to hell?"
So what do you think? Is God capable of hate? Does God love EVERYONE equally? Again, please don't make this thread about gay rights and the like, thanks.

Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. The words you say will either acquit you or condemn you."

Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Proverbs 29:27 The righteous detest the dishonest; the wicked detest the upright.

This may help:
Is Love Logical?

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


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Although the Op means well, and this thread is very interesting and is asking the specific question does God love everyone? This thread is just like all other bible based questions threads. What the Op is doing and everyone else is doing in this thread is like what Jesus said: " straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel "

Also what everyone is doing without realizing it and therefore accomplishing nothing is found in this scripture:

2nd Timothy Chapter 3 Verse 7: " Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. "

Everyone is not looking at all of the facts plainly laid out in the scriptures and the big picture. Therefore everyone is not really being honest within themselves and are not asking the real or important questions.

The following is the real question that every serious bible student needs to ask themselves, and to seriously contemplate consider what the real answers really are.

--------------

God Made the earth and it's inhabitants. " - However, let us not forget that " God made the angels too, before us " as the story is told in the scriptures.

Some time in antiquity: (biblically speaking and Before The: Creation of earth “in the beginning”), when God was all by Himself, God Created " the angels " - God is " Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient " which means that God knows the Future!

Now, we know that it is stated in the scriptures that God knows the Future, God is All Powerful, and God is Omnipresent !

So, now that we " all know " that God knows everything, one cannot help but see the obvious conclusions and contradictions in the whole creation story. " God is Not Perfect "

The " Area of Proof " that God is not perfect, is when God tells us about how he created the angels. .

The fallen angel lucifer or satan is the main proof that God is not perfect. To create or make many angels in antiquity, "God only knows when" and for one of these angels that God made to rebel against God, that shows an " Imperfect Creation " of an angel.

An all knowing, and an all seeing God, who " Knows The Future " could Easily have seen or known that lucifer was " Not Perfect. " For a " Perfect God " to make or create an " Imperfect Creation " shows that God is not perfect.

And also these obvious questions:

Why would " God " like or want " Gold " ??? and Why would God tell Adam in the first book of the bible about Gold ??? and God even says that " the Gold is Good " Why is the gold good ?

Why would Adam and Eve even want or need gold ??? Gold is very Heavy like Lead. Adam can't eat the gold, or does God want Adam to make himself a nice new shiny Rolex watch??? Come on, what's this Fascination by " God " with " Gold " ??? Does an Infinite and an All Wise God like Shiny Gold watches and rings...??? What's with Gods interest in gold ???

Is Sitchin's interpretation of the ancient Sumerian clay tablets beginning to make any sense here....?

What is the real bottom line story here on this planet earth? Entertainment ? Gold ? Love ? Endless Wars ?

Wow, talk about Endless Fascinating Brutal Entertainment... So Which Is It ???

Is the Bottom line theme and story on all of "Gods Creation" Love ? Gold ? or Endless Wars of Misery and Slaughter of People ? For " Gods " Entertainment.. ?

-----------

Can anyone see the ( Obvious Contradictions ) ? and the therefore the real questions

In a modern court of law, would any accuser be able to produce or pull a ( straw man ) out of thin air and then use that ( straw man ) to convict their accused?

Let us also not forget about the All Important [ GOLD ] And YES - GOD told Adam that the Gold was Good !

For those that are not that familiar with the bible, you can find the verse where God is telling Adam about Gold in the Very 1st Book of the Bible - Yes - The very 1st book - Genesis !

For those that still don't really get it or can't quite put it all together. The Gold was SO IMPORTANT, That GOD Has to tell Adam about this ALL IMPORTANT GOLD even before LOVE or JESUS or ANYTHING else ! Even Before " The Ten Commandments "

Because Everyone must Remember, that that GOLD Is IMPORTANT TO [ GOD ] He even says that the Gold is Good ! Oh yeah...? The gold is good huh...? Gee Thanks for the tip...



.

reply to post by Akragon

God doesn't send people to hell... Hell is a myth used as a fear based conversion tactic...

how is it a tactic if most religions contain it? Yes it may work that way for agnostics/atheists
but say even then if a person is looking at christianity and islam and both contain hell then the fear would get nullified. right? And the person can choose what feels more right as either way he is going to burn in the hell of the religion he rejects!
Actually right now the temptation of "my religion has no hell and so its better" is the latest conversion tactic. Isnt that equally wrong? What you say?

double post

reply to post by logical7

how is it a tactic if most religions contain it?

Most... if not all religions compete for members

Yes it may work that way for agnostics/atheists
but say even then if a person is looking at christianity and islam and both contain hell then the fear would get nullified. right?

I don't see how it would be nullified if its presence is still within said religions

Actually right now the temptation of "my religion has no hell and so its better" is the latest conversion tactic. Isnt that equally wrong? What you say?

Telling people that hell is a myth is a conversion tactic?

Which religion would said people be attempting to convert others to?

Perhaps a religion that supports a loving God as opposed to a egomaniacal terrorist?

I'll have to look into this... I've never heard of such a religion...

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


WBC is a cult, so why are you looking at their website for theology?