FOX News Talking Out Of Their You-Know-What On Solar Energy

Originally posted by mc_squared
Yeeeesh...for those people still saying solar is just some gimmick, will never work, needs massive subsidies, batteries, etc - all I can say is: tell that to Germany, ok?

Perhaps you missed the part in the OP where it states the country already gets 25% of its energy from renewables. The attached link then points out they are set to reach 40% by 2020, and on pace to not only meet, but likely surpass the government target of 80% by 2050. Many people feel they'll actually hit 100%. And it's not like this is some tiny, backwater nation - we're talking about a modern, 1st world, northern climate country of over 80 million people.

While Germany does get 25% of its energy from renewables, it only gets less than 5% from solar. Also, don't forget that Germany's has massive subsidies.

I think most people have missed the whole point of the video, which is that the pool of subsidies is drying up and that is a bad thing for the solar industry. You can find more in the article below(it did a better job of explaining the situation than the video).

I'm all for renewable energy like almost everyone else, but this Left-wing garbage that its going to be cheap and easy is getting old. Every 6 months on ATS someone says that cheap solar energy is within our grasp and that turns into"maybe in a few decades". It is going to be very expensive and I still want to do it.
FoxNews

reply to post by anton74



I appreciate the contribution but really, come on now - countering a thread that's all about how ignorant and full of it FOX News is, with a link to FOX News??

I'm going to repost this again, since it got buried at the bottom of the last page - I just started a new thread about how belligerent and extreme FOX's bias on all this is:

Here's 100% Proof That FOX News Are Straight Up Lying, Corporate Shills.


Meanwhile I could counter that link with this one:

Fox News Fails BIG TIME On Solar Subsidies


But instead of a pointless link-fight let's just focus on simple reality. FOX can talk about how much the industry completely depends on unsustainable subsidies all they want, but once again - tell that to Germany:

Germany Added Record Solar Panels in 2012 Even as Subsidies Cut


Because the fact is much of these subsidies come in the form of feed-in tariffs, that just end up right back in the public's pocket anyway. The whole thing isn't designed to sustain the industry, just kickstart it enough to become competitive, and then let the free market do its thing. This appears to be working just fine in Germany now, even despite the cuts:

Chancellor Angela Merkel has cut solar-power subsidies to reduce the burden on consumer electricity bills of Germany’s renewable-energy expansion. Still, the above-market tariffs remain at levels that allow developers to profit, while component prices have continued to drop amid an oversupply.

Meanwhile I already left links earlier in this thread showing how much the overall price of solar has already dropped, and how much more it is projected to drop. It has been happening - it is happening - and it will continue to happen.

FOX News is just trying to undermine it every step of the way, because we all know who they're batting for.


Please do not seriously try to point fingers about "left-wing garbage", and then link to foxnews.com

So from what I have read solar pays itself off within 5 years some say they lose 10% of their strength after 10 years but many are guaranteed for 25 years. Simple math tells you that it is a win win situation with solar except for the oil and coal industry. Some reports say you make back your investment within 2 years.

Come on this is a no brainer.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Heheh I don't know about that fast... but here where I live in Ontario, Canada we have a pretty sweet feed-in tariff that offers a 20 year contract with a return on investment between 10-15%. That means in 7-10 years you get your money back and for the next 10-13 it's all $$$ cha-ching $$$.

But of course we all know this could never work in the U.S. because they don't get nearly as much sunshine as we do up here in Canada.

reply to post by mc_squared


The 5 year mark is pretty much accepted here but I live in Florida so that may have something to do with it. I would much rather see clean energy subsidized than the oil companies.

www.youtube.com...

The link above is another tech that we should be pursuing aggressively because it solves two problems. Imagine $1.00 fuel again.

Originally posted by mc_squared
reply to post by anton74

 

I appreciate the contribution but really, come on now - countering a thread that's all about how ignorant and full of it FOX News is, with a link to FOX News??

I'm going to repost this again, since it got buried at the bottom of the last page - I just started a new thread about how belligerent and extreme FOX's bias on all this is:

Here's 100% Proof That FOX News Are Straight Up Lying, Corporate Shills.


Meanwhile I could counter that link with this one:

Fox News Fails BIG TIME On Solar Subsidies


But instead of a pointless link-fight let's just focus on simple reality. FOX can talk about how much the industry completely depends on unsustainable subsidies all they want, but once again - tell that to Germany:

Germany Added Record Solar Panels in 2012 Even as Subsidies Cut


Because the fact is much of these subsidies come in the form of feed-in tariffs, that just end up right back in the public's pocket anyway. The whole thing isn't designed to sustain the industry, just kickstart it enough to become competitive, and then let the free market do its thing. This appears to be working just fine in Germany now, even despite the cuts:

Chancellor Angela Merkel has cut solar-power subsidies to reduce the burden on consumer electricity bills of Germany’s renewable-energy expansion. Still, the above-market tariffs remain at levels that allow developers to profit, while component prices have continued to drop amid an oversupply.

Meanwhile I already left links earlier in this thread showing how much the overall price of solar has already dropped, and how much more it is projected to drop. It has been happening - it is happening - and it will continue to happen.

FOX News is just trying to undermine it every step of the way, because we all know who they're batting for.


Please do not seriously try to point fingers about "left-wing garbage", and then link to foxnews.com

The only reason I used a Fox News article is becuase they had all of the info I wanted to show in one place and to show you what they are getting at. Even a moron(FOX, NBC, CNN, TMZ) brings up a valid point now and then. I can turn on any news outlet and hear something stupid within minutes.

Rather than Focusing on that fact that they said something stupid, I want people to focus on the state of the solar industry(like they talked about). The Stimulus money they are getting is about to go away and they need help from the government to continue to grow and develope the technology. Companies from both the wind and solar industry are already talking about going bankrupt without government aid. In fact, some analysts are saying that we could see about half go out of business within a few years.

Is arguing over how honest Fox news is going to advance Solar tech or save the planet?

Originally posted by anton74
Is arguing over how honest Fox news is going to advance Solar tech or save the planet?

Considering how much Solar's current viability in the U.S. hangs on public policy and public opinion, both as voters and as consumers, yeah it's pretty important what kind of information FOX News is putting out there.

But it's very clear they want the industry to fail, since they are paid mouthpieces for the fossil fuel oligarchy (see my other thread for proof), and thus they cherry pick and misrepresent whatever information they can to paint a picture that it will fail.

This isn't simply a matter of "even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day" (i.e. even a moron brings up a valid point as you put it) - this is a case of a powerful media outlet deliberately misleading their viewers to advance an agenda. And what happened here was they got tripped up in the stupidity of their own BS.

So add it all up - there are plenty of other sources that contradict what the FOX News link is saying. I posted some earlier in the thread from the house oversight committee showing that, despite FOX's attempts to make everything about Solyndra, the government clean energy loans have thus far actually been a big success. The cleantechnica link also expands on the success and popularity of Germany's programs with actual data to back it up.

So you're entitled to believe whatever you want to believe - but in light of that: yes I think it's very important that FOX viewers know just how much they are being lied to and manipulated on this.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Hey there ya go - but of course people's own garbage is a "commodity" they can't control as easily as fossil fuels, just like they can't bottle sunlight (barring some kind of Mr. Burns sun-blocking machine - I wouldn't put it past them!).

So none of this is rocket science, seeing what's really going on here I mean, but it's pretty amazing how many people still just refuse to get it...

Originally posted by mc_squared

Originally posted by anton74
Is arguing over how honest Fox news is going to advance Solar tech or save the planet?

Considering how much Solar's current viability in the U.S. hangs on public policy and public opinion, both as voters and as consumers, yeah it's pretty important what kind of information FOX News is putting out there.

But it's very clear they want the industry to fail, since they are paid mouthpieces for the fossil fuel oligarchy (see my other thread for proof), and thus they cherry pick and misrepresent whatever information they can to paint a picture that it will fail.

This isn't simply a matter of "even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day" (i.e. even a moron brings up a valid point as you put it) - this is a case of a powerful media outlet deliberately misleading their viewers to advance an agenda. And what happened here was they got tripped up in the stupidity of their own BS.

So add it all up - there are plenty of other sources that contradict what the FOX News link is saying. I posted some earlier in the thread from the house oversight committee showing that, despite FOX's attempts to make everything about Solyndra, the government clean energy loans have thus far actually been a big success. The cleantechnica link also expands on the success and popularity of Germany's programs with actual data to back it up.

So you're entitled to believe whatever you want to believe - but in light of that: yes I think it's very important that FOX viewers know just how much they are being lied to and manipulated on this.

You posted a link to Bloomberg. Did you happen to notice that the Bloomberg article says basically the same thing as the Fox article that I provided a link to?

According to your article, the German government tariffs are making the Solar industry profitable. Government subsidies were cut and solar installation dropped 66% compared to the same quarter of the previous year and is expected to be down the following year.

You are right, if solar loses government support it will fail, Bloomberg and Fox are saying the same thing. Do you understand what I'm getting at?

Obviously fox news is just ignorant. I lived in germany for years (returned last year). If I remember right, the average number of sunny days is between 50 and 75 per year. These people have obviously never spent much time there.

Now as for germany having a successful solar economy, that depends on what you deem "successful". If you deem having a solar plant that can power a city for those 50-75 days a year then relying on 90% oil/coal for the other 300+- days successful. Then yes, they're successful. If you deem the residents paying an electric bill of around 33 US cents per kw/h, successful. Then yes they're successful.

But I prefer my .09 cents per kw/h until the tech is actually ready for commercial use. THEN we can switch over. I got really sick of the $340-$400 electric bills with NO AC (not that you need AC, just to show how expensive that sh*t is over there).

Maybe solar panels aren't that efficient in the US because of the "contrails" that block out your Sun?

reply to post by NuclearPaul


I wish chemtrails blocked some of our California Sun!

My God. Where I live temps can peak up to 110+ degrees°F in the summer.

Originally posted by mc_squared
reply to post by anton74

 

...

Germany Added Record Solar Panels in 2012 Even as Subsidies Cut


Because the fact is much of these subsidies come in the form of feed-in tariffs, that just end up right back in the public's pocket anyway. The whole thing isn't designed to sustain the industry, just kickstart it enough to become competitive, and then let the free market do its thing. This appears to be working just fine in Germany now, even despite the cuts:

Chancellor Angela Merkel has cut solar-power subsidies to reduce the burden on consumer electricity bills of Germany’s renewable-energy expansion. Still, the above-market tariffs remain at levels that allow developers to profit, while component prices have continued to drop amid an oversupply.

..

This is completely correct.
Solar power needed a kickstart, as it is quite expensive to install in the first place.

That phase is completed. A LOT of the roofs I come by every day are completely covered with PV-cells.

We like it that way, very much.

Originally posted by Dfairlite
Obviously fox news is just ignorant. I lived in germany for years (returned last year). If I remember right, the average number of sunny days is between 50 and 75 per year. These people have obviously never spent much time there.

Now as for germany having a successful solar economy, that depends on what you deem "successful". If you deem having a solar plant that can power a city for those 50-75 days a year then relying on 90% oil/coal for the other 300+- days successful. Then yes, they're successful. If you deem the residents paying an electric bill of around 33 US cents per kw/h, successful. Then yes they're successful.

But I prefer my .09 cents per kw/h until the tech is actually ready for commercial use. THEN we can switch over. I got really sick of the $340-$400 electric bills with NO AC (not that you need AC, just to show how expensive that sh*t is over there).

edit on 10-2-2013 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)

This is completely wrong.

There a no central solar power plants. The solar-powergrid is nearly completely decentralized. Even now, its about -5°C and a little bit sunny, nevertheless power is produced.

Here is an hourly updated overview of the produced energy:

Solar power data

Yesterday, it topped 8.000 MW. That is about 2 nuclear power plants!


Edit: oh, and its about 20-25 ct/kWh. Which is costly, but it does give the people/consumers some incentive to think about power-consumption and therefore power-saving.

Here is another great tech that we could be pursuing.

www.popsci.com...

There’s enough wind energy along our coastlines to power the country four times over, and the race is on to build the best offshore turbines to capture it.

Oil is a commodity though.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Oil is a commodity. It is wonderful. Denying how great it is, is to deny our civilization is great. Obviously oil lead us to where we are now! However, it's time we acknowledge there is better! Always be open to better Which clearly you are Grim so I mean this generally.

Alternative energy works for some regions really well, and other's somewhat, and other's not really at all. But that's all dependent on R & D! It CAN and WILL work everywhere.

Most places right now could benefit from either solar, wind, geothermal, wave power, converting the hatred of Republicans.... into renewable energy.

Originally posted by ManFromEurope

Originally posted by Dfairlite
Obviously fox news is just ignorant. I lived in germany for years (returned last year). If I remember right, the average number of sunny days is between 50 and 75 per year. These people have obviously never spent much time there.

Now as for germany having a successful solar economy, that depends on what you deem "successful". If you deem having a solar plant that can power a city for those 50-75 days a year then relying on 90% oil/coal for the other 300+- days successful. Then yes, they're successful. If you deem the residents paying an electric bill of around 33 US cents per kw/h, successful. Then yes they're successful.

But I prefer my .09 cents per kw/h until the tech is actually ready for commercial use. THEN we can switch over. I got really sick of the $340-$400 electric bills with NO AC (not that you need AC, just to show how expensive that sh*t is over there).

edit on 10-2-2013 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)

This is completely wrong.

There a no central solar power plants. The solar-powergrid is nearly completely decentralized. Even now, its about -5°C and a little bit sunny, nevertheless power is produced.

Here is an hourly updated overview of the produced energy:

Solar power data

Yesterday, it topped 8.000 MW. That is about 2 nuclear power plants!


Edit: oh, and its about 20-25 ct/kWh. Which is costly, but it does give the people/consumers some incentive to think about power-consumption and therefore power-saving.

edit on 11-2-2013 by ManFromEurope because: (no reason given)

Lol, no it's not completely wrong. The only slight falsehood was that I stated 'solar plant'. You are correct. It is MOSTLY decenteralized. There are substations all over the place. If you want to call that decentralized, so be it.

Yes, it PEAKED at 8,000MW. peaked. in the middle of the day, when most people are away from home.. The main problem with solar energy is that it doesn't work at night and is lessened by cloudy days, this wouldn't be a problem if there was a good way to store solar power, but there's not. That day is coming though.

Germany still relies on NINE nuclear power plants and is ramping up coal plants since they decided to shut down the nuclear power plants. that means they need to at least quadrouple their solar infrastructure to be anywhere close. As they do so, the cost will increase, until they find an economical way to store it. Green energy is not YET viable. It won't be until we can store it. it's not consistent enough.

(www.bloomberg.com...)

Yes it COSTS about 25c per kw/h but RWE was charging 28.5 euro ccents per kw/h which works out to be in the low to mid thrities of US cents. You can't pull a fast one on the price. I paid it for years. It just went up and up and up as solar and wind ramped up.

Look, I'm all for green energy, don't get me wrong. It's just not there yet, its not yet a viable alternative. Even if it were 12-14c per kw/h I'd be all for the investment, but it's double that.

reply to post by bjax9er


Here's a noble idea:

Leave the political trolling elsewhere or else, you'll be discounted forever as a Fox apologist.

reply to post by TauCetixeta


And yet, the climate continues to degrade each year.

I don't care if there's an "inexhaustible" supply of the very things that have destroyed our climate and altered our weather patterns.

They are not and will never be a substitute for common sense.

So let the coal miners and oil rig workers whine. They're pawns in Big Energy's drive to ensure that the U.S goes kicking and screaming to its' grave while making the clowns that rule these companies/technologies richer at every opportunity.

Here's a noble idea. Stop depending on other peoples' oil/coal/natural gas and make a serious investment into the infrastructure necessary to support alternative energy. We are already doing that but it's a baby step. We need a giant leap forward.

What happened to the America that enjoyed competing with other nations over technological prowess?

Why the dependence on a 19th century infrastructure that has been proven from time to time to be ultimately destructive to life on Earth as we know it?

reply to post by Eavel


And you do this website no service by posting your ignorant trash.

If you can't stay on topic, then get the # out!

It's time for Americans to wake the hell up and stop subscribing to such ignorance.

The ignorance you spew, is already flirting with extinction.