FOX News Talking Out Of Their You-Know-What On Solar Energy

reply to post by tothetenthpower

There was a report a few years ago that I'm having trouble finding at the moment, but it discussed how a few geothermal generators at yellow stone could help provide 30 to 40 percent of America's energy requirement.

That's nice but will the plant ruin the view?

We should have built one years ago.

reply to post by buster2010


Funny enough, they specifically chose sites that were outside of any major view points, or tourist areas. They also factored in the environmental impact of the building and stated it could be build using green technologies and effectively make it self sufficient from day 10 or so.

~Tenth

reply to post by SkipIntro


Actually your article stated that it WOULD be 20 years before copper and zinc panel MIGHT be as cost effective as coal. They are guessing, they haven't produced a panel that can yet. And copper and zinc still have to be mined.

reply to post by teslahowitzer


Try stepping outside of the FOX anti-reality bubble.

Despite all the hype and hysteria they generated over Solyndra, the clean energy portion of the stimulus bill has thus far actually been a resounding success.

There is always going to be some degree of failures, that's why they budget for these things in advance. Thus far the expected default rate has come in significantly under budget, and is projected to stay that way:

Review of the loan portfolio suggests total defaults are likely ultimately to be in the range $400 - $800 million dollars, or about one quarter the amount projected and budgeted for. Based on a reasonable assessment of outstanding portfolio financial profile and risks, the DOE loan program can therefore rationally only be viewed as a big success.

Source


This is the whole point of my OP basically: FOX News is completely full of it, and their propensity towards willful ignorance and misinformation is so blatant and extreme, it's flat out insulting to the intelligence of anyone who doesn't live in that bubble.

ATS is supposed to be all about denying this kind of crap - so you guys want to come on here and actually defend it, be my guest, but all you're doing is digging your own graves.

When these people seriously sit there with a straight face and tell you solar energy works in Germany because they get a lot more Sun than the U.S. it's time to start re-evaluating all the other BS you hear from them on a daily basis.

reply to post by mc_squared


I think solar covered parking lots is a great idea. Quite a few people will end up multimillionaires by doing so. Energy self sufficient office parks sounds like a wonderful idea. Add in some storage and the electric company is no longer even relevant.

reply to post by Carreau

As for solar, what type of panels are you suggesting OP? You never said which type just the generic PV.
Cadmium?
Copper Indium?
Gallium Arsenide?
Polymer?

"Generic PV" are made out of mono- and polycrystalline silicon, I don't know why you're even bringing up the other compounds as they are largely specialized materials used for thin film solar cells, not traditional "generic" solar panels.

In Arizona alone we average 600,000 lightning strikes PER YEAR, Care to take a guess to what happens to those solar panels when they are struck by lightning? You might not want to be down wind when one of these is burning, just sayin.

This seems like a rather desperate argument against PV installations don't ya think? If you're seriously concerned about some kind of solar panel lightning strike epidemic, here's an ingenious solution: ground them properly and/or put some lightning rods up.

By the way, where are we going to get all the rare earth elements that these solar panels are made of, it has to be mined from somewhere?

Rare Earth elements aren't all that rare. You could mine them right in the good ole USofA - if you just put the proper infrastructure in place:

Approximately 13 million metric tons of rare earth elements (REE) exist within known deposits in the United States, according to the first-ever nationwide estimate of these elements by the U.S. Geological Survey.

USGS: Rare Earth Elements in U.S. Not So Rare

Not to mention that the best rated panels start to lose 10% or more productivity in the first 10 years. There is a reason for solar not being used on a large scale, it's too expensive. Maybe in 100 years someone will invent a better way but right now, no.

Everything degrades over time, it's just the nature of things. Most modern solar panels come with 25 year warranties guaranteed to still run at high grades >80% after that time.

Meanwhile the price of solar continues to drop exponentially but also steadily. Following those trends it could hit parity with conventional electricity costs as soon as 2020. Source. That's 7 years away, not 100.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
reply to post by mc_squared

 

Add in some storage and the electric company is no longer even relevant.

Yup - as I pointed out in the OP, this is already what's happening in Germany.

Which is exactly why the establishment's fossil fuel oligarchy, and their henchmen at FOX News are so vehemently against it.

I'm sure if the USA spent a fraction of their military and black ops funds into clean/renewable energy, they would be the world leader in that respect.

It's sad to say but it's going to be a fight to the bitter end with these power companies. As long as they can make a dime from it, they will try to keep us all hooked. Even if that means derailing the entire "clean/free energy" movement.

Originally posted by Spookycolt
If you really want to see some hilarious stuff we could show some clips of what Al Sharpton does on MSNBC.

Or would that kind of derail your rant against FOX?

And what Does Al have to say about Solar Energy?

Nice off-topic post. This is about Solar Energy and Fox denouncing it because they are in the back pocket of Big Oil. If you do not see that you are blind if you agree with it then you narrow minded.

Got some useful argument on why alternative energy will not help this country become less reliable on foreign oil and the dictates that go with it please contribute.

Alternative energy should not be a Left or Right topic. Being an energy independent nation should be a goal no mater the political agenda. Renewable should be our main focus anyone who thinks the earth is inexhaustible has a 19th century mind and belief system or is invested heavily in Oil...

If not start your own thread about Al and MSNBC...

S+F OP.
It's beyond infuriating.
We're trapped by delusion.
Anything said by science is automatically dismissed because of the hatred fueled by FOX et al of anything center or left, how science got deemed center or left is beyond me.

maybe we don`t have the right kind of sun light in america, we probably have that neo con rush limbaugh type of sunlight and everyone knows that type of sun light can`t power liberal hippy green energy solar panels.

Originally posted by teslahowitzer
Put it this way, If solar energy is so great and marketable, EVERY large company would be fighting for the making and marketing of these panels, PRIVATE companies, not forced special interest taxpayer billions.

It's not marketable, that's the whole point. The reason we need the government to invest in it is because it's not profitable. Sometimes you have to lose in the short term, to gain in the long term.

Having a renewable clean energy source is worth whatever billions we put into it.

Here's a thought: If republicans spent half the amount of time complaining about the outrageous amount, we're talking 100s of times as much money as what we've invested in green technology, that we've spent on our military, Obama wouldn't have his drones that they so love to complain about! It truly was the republicans who bought the drones!

Those two females having a deep and meaningful on solar with mr happy smiley face sitting there wobbling his head reminds me of two people sitting looking at the night sky and one says to the other, I wonder which is further away. sydney or the moon and the other turns and says duh can you see sydney from here with a third person showing an in depth facial expression

reply to post by Ghost375


Certainly those billions of taxpayer dollars are being put to good use in the closed and shuttered palaces at solyndra, hemlock, and the others, well spent money, all for nothing, just pocket padding, I am not a big watcher of fox, the media in my opinion, is state run, and therefore full of it, my point is bashing the fox bimbos just distracts from the real culprits. There were announcements from certain military branches that they are stopping maintenance plans on several large key elements, one is the refueling and upkeep of the USS Lincoln, an aircraft carrier, a normal cycle of budget that has been going on for decades on navy ships, now we dont have the budget for it. Question, If we are spending more this year than ever before of money we do not have, but removing, from this bigger budget, big ticket items, where is all of this money going?, Spending much more, getting much less, where is the money going? our government is ripping off the taxpayer at a higher rate than ever in history, and we are getting much less than before. These billions could be used to make green projects more of a reality, but those seem to disappear at a high rate also, Accountability?, nope,

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
California is just made for success if they'd just get something done. They sit on an ocean to make the Saudi's look weak in a world class desalination system, if only anyone could realistically build one there. The deserts could hold dozens of solar plants to really give the Western grid a support level of production and shut down some of the older tech, over time and in a sane way.

Top Ten States For Solar Power

1. California — Its California Solar Initiative calls for a $3.3 billion, ten-year program that will help CA hold its position as the leading producer of solar technologies in the US, and one of the largest solar markets in the world

I agree California is prime. This is about how much sunshine my State gets on average:

Originally posted by Jeedawg
I'm sure if the USA spent a fraction of their military and black ops funds into clean/renewable energy, they would be the world leader in that respect.

This is exactly the point. Seriously, some replies here in the thread just reflect the same unbelievable stupidity as in that FOX report.

Mind you, I used to live in Germany. It is true that the amount of homes with solar panels there is INSANE.
"More Sun in Germany?"

Yes, right! We moved to Spain because the weather in Germany is the crappiest weather you can even imagine, it's basically "Winter" from early September to May. Even on the East Coast or the the Midwest, I guarantee you is MORE Sun than in Germany, let alone the fact that the US is "more south" geographically which also amounts to longer days. (I lived in the US for 8 something years).

Solar "works" in Germany because Germany has LONG understood how incredibly important alternative energies are and will be, as a technology to invest in, doing R&D, creating suitable laws, tax-cuts etc. for people who install them and so forth. An area where the US is still ignorant because for them its RATHER important to drill new oil wells somewhere in the Arctic, rather than starting TO REALIZE there is no way around alternative energy. Alternate energies is ONE of those sectors which, in this time of a "bad economy", it can only pay off to do R&D since this field has a future.

Whether solar cells still are less effective, whether they lose 10% of their effectiveness or whether they need certain amounts of rare metals is entirely IRRELEVANT. This is exactly what the R&D is about, to find new ways to make better, cheaper and more effective ones. Its only a matter of time and developing the technology.

Rather than giving ignorant comments here how "ineffective" solar panels are and how good it would be NOT to waste time on this, the exact opposite must happen in the US..more research/tech money into the field IN THE SAME WAY as Germany did already, despite the shiate weather in Germany.

Right now the percentage of power supplied by solar energy in Germany is 5%, they are shooting for 10% in 2020 and 20% in 2030, just as a side-note. I dont have a doubt they will reach that goal. I personally ALSO wish that some southern countries (Spain, Italy) would do the same. I am living in Spain and the amount of Sun here is "batsh!t crazy" as compared to Germany, even compared to Florida and other southern US states. The amount of energy wasted by not taking advantage of this must be staggering. It's early February now and Sun is already blasting down every day with no single cloud...while I pay €200 each month for my utilities alone. There is a HUGE opportunity missed.

The fact that Germany jumped early on on the alternative energy bandwagon is certainly ALSO one reason that Germany is doing very well economically right now, they are the leader in a field which just will become more and more important anywhere. Countries like the US are *not* blocked by the limits of technology, but simply by stupidity and ignorance, as the FOX article nicely demonstrates.

reply to post by Ginga


Or most likely think of Germany as that "Nazi state we beat in the War", judging on their mentality.

Originally posted by Jeedawg
I'm sure if the USA spent a fraction of their military and black ops funds into clean/renewable energy, they would be the world leader in that respect.

It's sad to say but it's going to be a fight to the bitter end with these power companies. As long as they can make a dime from it, they will try to keep us all hooked. Even if that means derailing the entire "clean/free energy" movement.

Lets be honest. It's the overabundance of ....natural gas....that has driven solar power
into oblivion. Huge natural gas power plants are generating reliable MEGAWATTS of
electrical power during the day and all night.

The Gas Turbine Power Plants from GE & Siemens also have a small footprint.

Also, the price of natural gas is very cheap. That translates into higher profit margins
and higher stock prices for the shareholders.

It's a win / win.

reply to post by flexy123


Yes, solar panels generate electrical power.......................during the day.
Long Live Natural Gas !
We have so much natural gas in the USA that we may liquify it LNG and ship
it to Germany!
The USA is the Saudi Arabia of Natural Gas!

again, people do not understand what they are talking about just like this post. it is not the diodes that can convert solar energy into usable electricity. Maostly it is the batteries. it is not COST EFFECTIVE, therefor you cannot expect even 25% of the population to be able to do solar energy. Fox news is not wrong, they are just bad at pointing out the real problem, just like you, you are bad at pointing out a reasonable alternative to fossil fuels. Based on this post you have none. Of course there is sun, DUH.

Until battery technology comes down and people are not having to replace 30 batteries every 8-10 years from capacitor decay which cost $7500.00 every decade just for batteries, not to mention the initial cost in panels, the converters, the monitors, give me a break. my electric bill cost me $1200 or so a YEAR. by far CHEAPER than a complete solar package and constant battery purchases as they die out. It would take over 60 years for a return on investment.

I own a solar package before you start battering my post. without batteries, $7300 invested. it can only run small appliances, no hair driers, no microwaves, no various luxuries. The direct wattage, amperage, and voltage is not enough to sustain me without another 5-10 grand in batteries that I have to constantly monitor and replace. stop talking out of your rear oraface.