I'm very scared of going to hell, but I don't believe in hell

reply to post by canadiansenior70

To not believe in God, means you have to admit that He IS, therefore to Not be-and you cannot---therefore most self-professed atheists are not really atheists..

I'm not following the logic.

Can you paraphrase it?

reply to post by 0thetrooth0


There's as much chance your soul will end up in a giant smelly sneaker as it will in "hell." Sounds like you need deprogramming from religious brainwashing to me.

Originally posted by MotherMayEye
reply to post by 0thetrooth0

 

There's as much chance your soul will end up in a giant smelly sneaker as it will in "hell." Sounds like you need deprogramming from religious brainwashing to me.

Yup, thats what I had to do.

In this world you don't even need to ever open a bible to not be religiously brainwashed by our society, so it is a hard one.

I actuallly debrainwashed by just fscing it all head on and going for the gustoh, and then realized, "nope" I am going back to the beliefs I hald in my heart when I was born, before the brainwashing seeped in and ruined my life for years,".... and now I am much more at peace again.

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0
Most of the time I don't believe in hell, its like 90% i dont believe in hell but 10 percent of me does. but when I think about hell i get very very scared because i think what if hell is real and when i die ill go there and suffer forever. I would call myself an agnostic/atheist. Its like i have this phobia of dying but most importantly l what can happen after death and especially of the reality of hell. I cant rule out the possibility of hell and so that why im really scared. i dont know why im scared. my mind says hell is not real but it my subconcsious says it might be real. i dont want to die and be wrong because itll be too late then. any help wuld be appreciated.

I posted this under philo/meta because I think people are smarter here than in religion section no offense of course. Please dont delete this mods if anything move it to the religion section. Thanks

edit on 7-2-2013 by 0thetrooth0 because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-2-2013 by 0thetrooth0 because: (no reason given)

When you go to sleep at night and you dream, are you not in a real place ? And when you have a nightmare, are you not experiencing the fear that comes with it ? Right now you are locked to this world by your body that you live in. When it dies, your soul will depart from it and that's where it gets interesting. because man rejected God, God rejected man from Him. God has created a special place to hold the souls of the damned, and that place is hell. But hell is only a jail cell, because after that is the judgment and then the lake of fire, which is another place God created to put those who were in hell,and hell itself into. Now, just as man rejected God and God rejected man because of it, God has made a way to accept God so that God will accept him again, and that way is called Jesus. God has made Jesus the only way because Jesus was willing to die to pay for all the sin of the world. When you accept Jesus, God then accepts you and you don't go to hell. Forget about religion, and consider you and God and what you do with Jesus. Read the gospel of John in the Bible and see if you can understand who you are, why you are, and where you are going, or may have to go. You don't have to go to hell. You can choose to accept Jesus by accepting what he did for you and ask Jesus to save you from hell and forgive you of your sins. Then you never have to worry about hell ever again. I hope you can understand, I really do.

reply to post by Fromabove

God has created a special place to hold the souls of the damned, and that place is hell. But hell is only a jail cell, because after that is the judgment and then the lake of fire, which is another place God created to put those who were in hell,and hell itself into.

I find that very interesting.

God sends people to jail until later they receive their final judgement in the lake of fire.

Now the implication of that is what I find interesting.

Never-minding the fact it so resembles our very Earthly justice system

What I find interesting is that an omniscient and omnipotent god would be unable to deliver that final judgement immediately. It seems as though he lacks the infinite power and intelligence to do so.

As though he has to spend time deliberating the evidence!

OP, I'm sure this will get buried... but I'm replying for YOU, not for notice.

I was raised as a Christian and practiced as one until I was 30. The issue of hell is what turned me away. I could not believe that a loving creator would consign MOST of his creation to eternal suffering. What kind of God is that??

The idea of hell did not come about until the rise of Christianity. Christianity is based on Judaism, and early Judaism had no concept of hell. Actually - the Hebrew Bible talks about mediums speaking to real ghosts, but no mention of hell.

I believe the idea of "hell" came about as a way to control people, frighten them into submission.

What comes next? I can't say. Worse case scenario, I think you are either no more - as unaware as if you had gone to sleep - or you are haunting some POS house in the middle of nowhere.

reply to post by Schkeptick


From what I gather they believed in Sheol which was more or less just nothingness after bodily death.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Only the Sadducees believed that. There were various beliefs and the mystical traditions believed in reincarnation, at least certain branches:

www.aish.com...

The fact that reincarnation is part of Jewish tradition comes as a surprise to many people. 11 Nevertheless, it's mentioned in numerous places throughout the classical texts of Jewish mysticism, starting with the preeminent sourcebook of Kabbalah, the Zohar :12

As long as a person is unsuccessful in his purpose in this world, the Holy One, blessed be He, uproots him and replants him over and over again. (Zohar I 186b)

All souls are subject to reincarnation; and people do not know the ways of the Holy One, blessed be He! They do not know that they are brought before the tribunal both before they enter into this world and after they leave it; they are ignorant of the many reincarnations and secret works which they have to undergo, and of the number of naked souls, and how many naked spirits roam about in the other world without being able to enter within the veil of the King's Palace. Men do not know how the souls revolve like a stone that is thrown from a sling. But the time is at hand when these mysteries will be disclosed. (Zohar II 99b)

www.hanefesh.com...

Reincarnation is a fundamental belief in Jewish tradition. In Hebrew, Reincarnation is called "gilgul ha'ne'shamot," literally the recycling or transmigration of souls.

This concept can be compared to a flame of one candle lighting another candle. While the essence of the second flame comes from the first one, the second flame is an independent entity. Still, the new flame contains imperfections inherited from the initial flame, and it is these imperfections that are to be corrected.

Most of the written material of reincarnation is very esoteric, often written in Aramaic. Some of the prominent works dealing with this subject are the "Zohar" (1st century) and the Arizal's "Shaar HaGilgulim" (16th century). In the Bible itself, the idea is intimated in Deut. 25:5-10.

Many sources say that a soul has a maximum of three chances in this world. One example given is that the great Talmudic sage Hillel was a reincarnation of the Biblical figure Aaron.

The soul only comes into this world in the first place in order to make a spiritual repair. If that is not fulfilled by the end of one's lifetime, then the soul will be sent down once again. The return trip may only be needed for a short time or in a limited way. This in part explains why people are born with handicaps or may live a brief life. (Example someone who would continually bother a cripple man, his fixing would be to comeback as a cripple man and feel the pain)

So it seems many ideas abound, even a branch that was the rule of LAW but didnt believe in immortality, and then various accepted yet diverse beliefs.

iyyun.com...

Question:

If reincarnation is a fundamental idea of Jewish theology, why do so few Jews believe in it? Even traditional rabbis often seem skeptical at best.

R. DovBer Pinson: This skepticism is not a new phenomenon, it actually stems from generations of debate over this little known, yet intriguing notion, of reincarnation. As I mentioned in my previous response, the debate over reincarnation was very much a controversy between the Kabbalists and Philosophers. Kabbalah means, literally, to receive. The traditions of the Kabbalah were not based on logical thought, rather, it was information transferred from one generation to the next, an unbroken chain since the original knowledge was taught, 3,300 years ago on Mount Sinai. Those who did not receive these well-guarded traditions argued against reincarnation based on their logical thought process. It did not seem to make sense to them, and being that they had not received it as tradition, they felt that it went against the Torah.

Many of the great Jewish minds disputed reincarnation. For example, Rabbi Saadiah Gaon himself argued against it. How-ever, there are signs that these great thinkers might have thought differently had they known of the tradition. Rabbi Chisdai Cresces, a well-known fourteenth century philosopher, spoke against reincarnation, yet he stated that if he were to have received it in his Kabbalah, he would have felt differently. The Abrabanel wrote that as Maimonides neared the end of his own life, he received Kabbalistic traditions which heretofore he had not known of.

Rather interesting the traditions and how diverse the logic behind those who believed in reincarnation and had written terms, and those who argued against it but said they would have thought differently teh Kabbalah traditions earlier.

Now, its been well known and reported that early Christians believed in reincarnation.

www.comparativereligion.com...

www.theosophy-nw.org...

John (9:2-4) reports that the disciples asked Jesus whether a blindman had sinned or his parents that he had been born blind. Jesus replied that it was in order that the works of God may be made manifest in the blind man, that is, that the law of cause and effect might be fulfilled. Or, as St. Paul phrased the thought: we reap what we sow. The blind man could not have sown the seeds of his blindness in his present body, but must have done so in a previous lifetime.

The earliest Christians, especially those who were members of one or other of the Gnostic sects, such as the Valentinians, Ophites and Ebionites, included reimbodiment among their important teachings. For them it enabled fulfillment of the law -- karma -- as well as providing the means for the soul to purify itself from the muddy qualities resulting from its immersion in matter and the egoism we have developed in the first stages of our journey through earth life.

After the original generations of Christians, we find the early Church Fathers, such as Justin Martyr (AD 100-l65), St. Clement of Alexandria ( AD 150-220), and Origen ( AD 185-254) teaching the pre-existence of souls, taking up reincarnation or one or another aspect of reimbodiment. Examples are scattered through Origen's works, especially Contra Celsum (1, xxxii), where he asks: "Is it not rational that souls should be introduced into bodies, in accordance with their merits and previous deeds . . . ?" And in De Principiis he says that "the soul has neither beginning nor end." St. Jerome (AD 340-420), translator of the Latin version of the Bible known as the Vulgate, in his Letter to Demetrias (a Roman matron), states that some Christian sects in his day taught a form of reincarnation as an esoteric doctrine, imparting it to a few "as a traditional truth which was not to be divulged."

Synesius (AD 370-480), Bishop of Ptolemais, also taught the concept, and in a prayer that has survived, he says: "Father, grant that my soul may merge into the light, and be no more thrust back into the illusion of earth." Others of his Hymns, such as number III, contain lines clearly stating his views, and also pleas that he may be so purified that rebirth on earth will no longer be necessary. In a thesis on dreams, Synesius writes: "It is possible by labor and time, and a transition into other lives, for the imaginative soul to emerge from this dark abode." This passage reminds us of verses in the Revelation of John (3:12), with its symbolic, initiatory language leading into: "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out."

reply to post by 0thetrooth0


God doesn't come to you on your terms. HE comes to us on HIS terms and we are simply called to have faith in the mean time.

There is no time line that HIS creation can put a demand in order for them to believe in HIM via proving HIMSELF to you just because you want it when you want it. Humble yourself and just allow HIM to reveal HIMSELF to you the Way HE wants to without giving HIM the standards by which HE is to exist to you. After all HE CREATED you not the other way around.

PLEASE LISTEN CAREFULLY! God is very real and loves you and every person on the planet with everything that he is. In fact he IS love. People will tell you that if God loved us so much, why is there pain in the world? Why would God send anyone to hell? The answer is that if God had wanted to, he could have created a race of beings with no free will that worshipped him out of their very nature. But instead God chose to create mankind with the gift of free will so that if they so chose to worship him, it would be out of the fact that they loved him for who he was and because of the love he had shown to them. He offers a free gift with no strings attatched, that can not be purchased by giving any amount of money to any church, no requirements other than to accept the payment already made for the sins you speak of, relief of the guilt that plagues your mind.

Jesus has already paid the ultimate price for the sin that will ultimately separate you from God. It is this eternal separation that truly causes the fear that we experience with the thought of dying without God. Many will disagree, call all Christians a group of brainwashed "sheeple" that cant think for themselves. They would have you believe that Christians are hateful people judging the rest of the world, or trying to control people. Unfortunately there are a large number of people in this world throughout history claiming to be Christians that have no idea who Christ was, or the love that he taught.(I.e. the crusades) .

The man who took time to take compassion on the lowly, the prostitutes, the "untouchables" of his time, even at times at the chagrin of some who followed him. THIS Jesus, the REAL son of God wants NOTHING from you, except for you to accept his gift of eternal life. Accept that he died for your sins, repent in your heart and ask him to give you a new life and take you to heaven when you die. NO catch, as simple as that. God LOVES you. He wants you to know him, he wants you to love him, and most of all he wants you to accept his son as the payment for what should be your spiritual and eternal death.

Only Jesus can truly put you at peace, because if you accept him, when you think of who you were, of the things you'd done and the things that would separate you from a Holy God, instead of these things you will only see Him.

Reincarnation is bogus and just another ploy by satan to mislead people away from the truth

The people of the world believe this lie because a vast new age bombardment of misinformation.

Satan will use any means available to lead people away from God. He doesn't have to get people to believe there is no god, he simply has to get them to not believe in the Christian God. A simple way for him to do this is with counterfeit religious experiences such as 'reincarnation past-lives.

Through Hinduism and Buddhism, and their core belief of karma and reincarnation, Satan has deceived many people into accepting and believing that by doing good works, a person would qualify to have his spirit elevated from one lifetime to the next in order to eventually reach a state of spiritual ‘enlightenment’.

I believe even rational and logical thinking persons can choose to believe in ‘reincarnation’. This is because they have been deceived by demonic spirits. They are rendered blind to reason and logic regarding spiritual matters.

Through Hinduism and Buddhism, Satan and his fellow demonic spirits have deceived many generations of people in large parts of the world into unwittingly allowing their bodies and souls to be possessed. This permits the demonic spirits to 'reincarnate' in them serially.

Satan inspired Hinduism and Buddhism with the core beliefs of Karma and reincarnation.
The concept of reincarnation has been debunked by the concept of demonic spirit possession explaining all the ‘evidence’ proffered for reincarnation.
Hence reincarnation is a lie and Hinduism, Buddhism, and New Age beliefs are deceptions. They bear the signature of Satan. Source

There are so many fundamentalists here. If they're not smiting, judging, or putting burdens on others, or causing harshness instead of the Love people need, then I don't try to nudge them away from whatever helps them live a Loving, Kind, non judgmental , helping others, empowering others kind of life. But otherwise they're off the mark. And reincarnation is how this system works, though the goal is not to have to.

However if they're doing this as wolves in sheep clothing to support the controlling system of harm, then I'll be speaking up direct, for I believe very strongly in Serve and Protect!

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Ive searched for God he has not responded so right now Im an atheist.

perhaps you've searched in the wrong places. or haven't looked deep enough

OP, I would just like to say; I RARELY log in and post replies on ATS. I saw your post though, and it really struck a chord with me.

I personally don't go to church, don't read the bible, etc,etc. But I feel very connected with my God. I personally can't even set foot in a church anymore because I see that 90% of them are run by people that just want to feed on people's fear to make money. And sadly, these people that really think they know God... they don't. They just go to church every Sunday, throw money at the pastor, and feel better about the sins they've committed during the week. You probably get what I'm saying.

But anyways... these charlatans that call themselves men of God use the fear you are speaking of to manipulate people. I always tell people, You should never believe in God just because you're afraid of going to Hell. That is not going to get you into heaven. But, then again, throwing your money at a mere mortal is no way to buy your stairway to heaven either...

Also, I would urge you to take this fear you have identified, and turn it into something good. I too had this fear many years ago, but I turned it into understanding, and conquered that fear. I am no longer afraid of death, nor am I afraid of Hell. Whether or not you have a faith, religion, whatever - Do not let your mortality keep you afraid - because fear does nothing but keep us back.

Originally posted by MrBigDave

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by MrBigDave

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0

Originally posted by MrBigDave
I think that if you truly thought about it, you believe in hell 100% of the time its just that you don't think about it or you push the idea to the back of your mind. I understand and am in a similar state in life. I do believe in hell, but I'm not doing anything about it. Most of the time it doesn't bother me, but every once in a while the thought crosses my mind.

Yea thats how I am. I dont do anything about it and most of the time im not thinking about it but when i do im really scared that it might be real. Are you in this same situation? how do you cope/deal with his? your scared of dying because of hell but you cant escape death, so whats the solution?

Yes, I quit going to church about a year ago. I had some disagreements with the pastor. I was going to find a different one, but then got used to having my sunday mornings for other stuff. Now it is in the far back of my mind. I know that it should not be, but it is.

Sunday morning?

Weird...
Sabbath is on the 7th day (aka, Saturday). Why go on the first day of the week?

Really? Do you have to argue about everything? Yes, I used to go to church on Sunday. Yes I know that technically the Sabbath is on Saturday, Jesus was not born in December, and Easter has nothing to do with ham. The Law was not about the letter, it was about the concepts, and I don't believe God cares what day you celebrate as long as you do.

Well, why then did he state clearly that the Sabbath day is to remain holy?
Once you start taking liberties, then where does it end? Suddenly God was just kidding about that whole lying and stealing being bad bit?
Just saying, I, an atheist, have a far better chance of being let into a biblical heaven than a half hearted Christian whom knows the laws, but ignores them because he decided to restructure it for his preference
Unless you can understand the mindset of a deity, then all you have to go by are the words he supposedly imparted in the bible to follow clearly..not just decide he thinks differently..

and I am not arguing about everything, I am questioning everything...a trait I find quite helpful in the pursuit of truth.

You said you acknowledge Saturday as Sabbath..yet you go (went) to church on Sunday anyhow...so, your religion has nothing to do with spirituality and everything to do with pretending to be holy with the rest of the faux flock..

Sorry, not meaning to sound harsh...consider this more of a poke at the general mindset of the watered down pseudo-Christ lite religion that seems common.

That goes against my agenda of simply having people abandon religion all together. I mean, if your not going to do it right, then just don't do it..join a club instead that doesn't cram legislation and influence down the throats of everyone.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


while what you say is true, yes God does know all things even before He ever made it, you forget that God cannot look upon sin, it would contradict Himself. your also forgetting that our actions through our own free will, dont always align with His will. as ive said before, it is not Gods will that any go to hell. But he would contradict Himself if He gave us free will and then controlled us. why is there an earth at all? good point, theres an earth which was like heaven, but we sinned and caused the world to decay through that sin. your life and my life and all the sin we carry is due to us being born from sin, and into a sinful world, cruel? yes, BUT, thats why God sent His son Jesus to save us from that sin. and this is the sin we ourselves contribute to. the cruelty of the world we create, and in many cases the cruelty we fail to stop, as the saying goes "evil men succeed when good men do nothing". it is not to say God's hand is not in the world, but as ive said before, there are many good things He does that you never even see.

you might wonder why even be born, why even be in this world where you have to make this decision to follow God's will or follow your own will, and ill answer it for you; its because your life and everybody here, every single individual's life has a purpose. we have an eternal purpose. God does not see you from a corporate level where your just a number, black or white etc, He sees you as His lost child who He loves. your asking the right questions.

our discussions may be likened to an unstoppable force against an unmoveable object, but when one or the other budges, God will still be there and He wont stop knocking on your heart's door.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


it appears i have judged you wrong, my apologies, yes the original Lazarus was in NT, my memory failed me on that part but you know the story very good and once again sorry to have misled. though im glad to see your also a Believer, it does bring me great disappointment to find you dont believe in hell, as i will take your suggestion and pray that for God to reveal more to me about hell not existing, i challenge you to also pray about hell being real, because its is a complete lie to say hell does not exist. also the reason "hell" exists in many other things like islam and etc is because the enemy has taken what is the truth and made false knock offs of it.

if hell isnt real, then why did Jesus die? and where was the rich man Lazarus at if it wasnt hell?

If you are scared of something you don't believe in you need psychological help.

Sorry, but that's they only answer regardless of what it is, ghosts, aliens or hell. If you don't believe in them yet are terrified by them, you need help.

Actually, on second thoughts, you've just created your own version of hell.

And from a biblical aspect of hell, you've just nailed it.