Has The Amazing Purpose Of Petrospheres AKA Neolithic Stone Balls Finally Been Discovered?

Originally posted by Rodinus
This is a wonderful thread, well done OP S+F to you

I am a little disappointed however that noone took the time to to look at my first post in this thread and give their thoughts on what i found which looks very similar in the link.

Never mind

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Thanks Rodinus.

I was waiting to see if someone else picked up the ball and ran with it (pardon the pun) before i answered.

I can see exactly what you're saying, but i just feel that the protrusions and shapes carved wouldn't lend themselves to being particularly accurate in such a use, especially when rolled.

Maybe as Byrd said, some of them may have been used for gaming, but if any i would have thought the more smooth and less 'noduled' ones would be better suited to that purpose.

reply to post by punkinworks10


The cooking stone theory has merit, and i've seen it actually used before, especially when the cooking 'pot' is basically an animal skin bag, or made from woven plant material.

Although some of those clay balls are artistic and decorative, i can't help but think a more efficient method for the early Scots would have been to simply use ordinary small stones found about, heated in a fire and then transferred to the pot to boil water etc.

I can't see any functional advantage to using these intricately carved stones, with their distinctive nodes and lobes, over plain or ordinary stones when in cooking.

As far as i know, none show evidence of being heated to high temperatures in a fire after they had been carved.

Again though, that doesn't mean no examples that show fire damage will be ever be found, perhaps some will.

reply to post by PrivateSi

BALL BEARINGS BUILT STONEHENGE! This is the theory that the small, identically sized, smooth (or carved at a later date?) spheres were placed in grooves on movable oak TRACKS to easily shift stones as large as the Stonehenge Sarson Stones... These balls are found along the proposed route the stones took from Wales and near other stone circles...

I saw the same documentary myself PrivateSi.

Again though, i think while that theory on moving large stones is not only possible in my view, with a few modifications is actually highly likely to have been how massive stones were moved.

But due to the irregular shapes and nodes and nodules on most of these Scottish stones, i don't think this is what they were used for...too lumpy for bearings.

The hollow artifact from Costa Rica is almost identical to Roman artifacts found all over Europe. Some intersesting comments in this link.

Oops, the link is banned. Google Roman-Dodecahedra instead.

It would be interesting to identify the spores to see if they come from plants that have cultural/spiritual/medicinal uses.

reply to post by MysterX


First off, I want to say great thread! Its put together very well and is a very interesting topic.

Now, with that said, let me tell you why I disagree with your theory, and many other numerous theories of ancient artwork which resembles something that is either high technology, or requires high technology to experience.

The shapes you have represented are very aesthetic and appeasing. But i feel they are just artwork that may or may not relate to something..less exotic than say microscopic pollen grains. they are not overly advanced shapes. They look like something I would come up with in art class.

It is nice artwork, and a great coincidence, but thats all I really believe these things are. Coincidences.

Originally posted by MysterX

Originally posted by Rodinus
This is a wonderful thread, well done OP S+F to you

I am a little disappointed however that noone took the time to to look at my first post in this thread and give their thoughts on what i found which looks very similar in the link.

Never mind

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Thanks Rodinus.

I was waiting to see if someone else picked up the ball and ran with it (pardon the pun) before i answered.

I can see exactly what you're saying, but i just feel that the protrusions and shapes carved wouldn't lend themselves to being particularly accurate in such a use, especially when rolled.

Maybe as Byrd said, some of them may have been used for gaming, but if any i would have thought the more smooth and less 'noduled' ones would be better suited to that purpose.

Thanks MysterX for answering back to me,

The balls that i put a link to are fairly old (roughly about 100 years old) so definately not as old as the stone balls, however i have noticed in France in museums certain metallic, wooden and stone petanque balls that look very similar to some of those that you have depicted in your OP with the same types of protrusions etc.

This weekend i will try and do some deeper research and dig up images which are similar and look forward to everyones comments.

Have a great weekend

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Originally posted by rjh11
The hollow artifact from Costa Rica is almost identical to Roman artifacts found all over Europe. Some intersesting comments in this link.

Oops, the link is banned. Google Roman-Dodecahedra instead.

It would be interesting to identify the spores to see if they come from plants that have cultural/spiritual/medicinal uses.

Yes, the Roman Dodecahedron has been posted before, and after looking at some images of more of them, it seems absolutely that this is exactly what it is...a Roman Dodecahedron.

Which is a mystery in and of itself...no expert being able to agree on the purpose of these incredible artifacts.

Some say candle holders, due to wax being discovered inside the cavities of one of these things...i don't buy that for a second...there are easier, and better shapes to use for holding a stick of wax..a complex, mathematically significant dodecahedron isn't one of them in my opinion.

Lots of other expert theories abound, but in truth, nobody knows what these were for.

Without doubt, the image i posted is of a Roman dodecahedron...very similar, in more ways than one, to the Scottish stones in this thread aren't they.

And what is an ancient Roman Dodecahedron doing buried in a Costa Rican rice field i wonder?

reply to post by Rodinus


You're welcome Rodinus.

I'll look forwards to seeing any images you can dig up of old gaming balls.

Who knows, with all the great theories and ideas popping up in this thread, we members of ATS may actually get closer to a difinitive explanation or even solving the mystery of these stones, or at least give the experts a run for their money and something else to think about!

reply to post by VonDoomen

Thanks VonDoomen.

My thinking is being put out there only as a theory.

When i saw the images of the stones, i immediately had a recognition...i didn't know where from or why, but i knew i'd seen these shapes before.

I thought perhaps i'd seen them in other Celtic or ancient Britons' artwork, like in the wonderful images member Ramcheck has kindly posted (thanks Ramcheck..the last image of Celtic / Pictish art looks compelling)..but i had a nagging feeling that wasn't it...i mentally ran through known objects that had similar shapes, even to an extent, Viruses..but none that i imagined fit..then, i don't know why, but something in the back of my mind told me to search for images of Pollen.

The images of the pollen that i posted are the images i found that elicited a 'eureka' moment in my mind, there were the shapes of the Scottish stones, in various tree pollen.

The pollen shown includes Oak (considered Royal), Birch, Sycamore and others.

In short, i don't know if these are carvings of pollen or not...i just think they look SO similar to each other, that it's another interesting avenue to consider, and opens the door to even more interesting questions, some of which have been posted in this thread already.

reply to post by MysterX


No need to apologize or point out its only a theory!

While I may personally disagree with it, It is very understandable why someone would think they represent pollen. They look almost 100% identical. Ive read some terrible theories here on ATS where i cant even understand how they reach their conclusion. Your theory is not like that at all, and as i said before, It is extremely interesting and i appreciate that you took the time to do this!

Theorycrafting is a great thing to do. Where would our species be if we never took the time to ask "what if?".

You have earned my star and flag good sir!

I have to partially agree with the OP in regards to the similarities between some and pollen. It seems though people don't read through the one thread where i feel the one user deserved a bit of credit when he pointed out that the one was a roman dodecahedron which he cites an example and provides a link. I would also have a hard time agreeing with the bola statement due to a few things, the most prominent one being: There is no history, written or oral that would suggest such a thing; as well as where the bola was used might as well have been a world away for monolithic people.

Now the 9th Spanish legion was said to have taken part in an invasion against Britain. Then again i would challenge someone to show me that the Spanish used bola for something other than in an agricultural based setting(not included to South America). They weren't used for warfare in the time/age so how would they have come to be there? The 9th legion was a military unit, not peasants or farmers.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think the bigger question now would be how did a roman object get to Costa Rica?

Edit: noticed a couple people do mention it on the last page and am now feeling sheepish.... not a good day for a first post i guess..

reply to post by MysterX


I used to find items like these, broken and intact, all the time. In fact, I think my uncle still has a few in his collection of Native American artifacts.

The Muscogee (Creek - Red Stick & White Stick) Tribe in the Southern United States used quartz to carve their tools. They made everything from spears tips, to hide scrapers, to tattoo stones. The Mississippian cultures were highly advanced mound building societies.

They most likely built mounds to avoid floods. My uncle's property is adjacent to a small river, and every time he plows his field, we find hundreds of small artifacts. It is more than likely his property was once a trading center, or a population center. What we find on his property often looks like hemispherical balls, with grooves.

What most people don't know about the Muscogee is just how violent they were. They Red Sticks and White Sticks were constantly warring factions of the same tribe, and they aimed to do damage. When you find these small stones with groves, you're probably looking at an instrument of death.

However, there is some fitting juxtaposition to your idea: Pollen gives life, and it looks like this on a microscopic level. When made from stone, and millions of times larger, it brings death.

We can't know with any certainty why these items were created, but I feel like my most educated guess is going to be a weapon.

Originally posted by skalla
reply to post by Robonakka

 

jeez, i so should have seen that - an excellent explanation!

this thread from a primitve skills forum contains many examples for reference

paleoplanet69529.yuku.com...

edit on 6-2-2013 by skalla because: ammended link to page with best pics of stone examples

I always considered them to be mace heads. Scottish bolas? I doubt it.

But the grooves were for holding the cords. The cords tying the mace heads to handles.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


i feel that some of these were probably bolas (while others may well be platonic solids used as forms for practice etc by craftsmen, or -ugh- ritual items) and that there is no reason why such weapons would not exist in britain somewhere between the ice and the romans. without looking up any sources though, i believe that the local tradition for hafting was drilling through stone axe and mace heads rather than fastening with cordage/rawhide or sinew etc (excepting ground axes hafted into slots a la celts with a small c)... most cases of mace heads being tied to shafts afaik tend to use a single groove to do this, rather than the tie-around that these shapes would generally require.

Originally posted by skalla
reply to post by Harte

 

i feel that some of these were probably bolas (while others may well be platonic solids used as forms for practice etc by craftsmen, or -ugh- ritual items) and that there is no reason why such weapons would not exist in britain somewhere between the ice and the romans. without looking up any sources though, i believe that the local tradition for hafting was drilling through stone axe and mace heads rather than fastening with cordage/rawhide or sinew etc (excepting ground axes hafted into slots a la celts with a small c)... most cases of mace heads being tied to shafts afaik tend to use a single groove to do this, rather than the tie-around that these shapes would generally require.

edit on 19-2-2013 by skalla because: clarity

Okay. That seems acceptable.

The problem with bolas is (AFAIK) they aren't evidenced in ancient Scotland, though that really doesn't mean they couldn't have been used there.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


bolas would be hard to trace archaeologically - the defining feature (besides the find of 3 "balls" in situ) would be the connecting cords and any pouches if the balls are contained in that way - finding one in the right soils conditions to allow for preservation would be very fortunate indeed.
it's also likely that some readers dont associate bolas with northern europe but with the americas instead, hence the reticence of some posters, but then the same is likely re spear throwers/atlatls and ofc these were once common in post ice age europe
.

reply to post by MysterX

If the parallels are correct, then they would appear to be, well, teaching aids. Forgive the second line, but its just that simple.

Originally posted by skalla
reply to post by Harte

 

bolas would be hard to trace archaeologically - the defining feature (besides the find of 3 "balls" in situ) would be the connecting cords and any pouches if the balls are contained in that way - finding one in the right soils conditions to allow for preservation would be very fortunate indeed.
it's also likely that some readers dont associate bolas with northern europe but with the americas instead, hence the reticence of some posters, but then the same is likely re spear throwers/atlatls and ofc these were once common in post ice age europe
.

edit on 19-2-2013 by skalla because: post not pre

Like I said, lack of evidence doesn't mean they didn't have them.

here's a bola weight from ancient Texas:



Regarding lashing mace heads, instead of using drilled holes:

The first maces were simply rounded rocks lashed to a wooden haft. Later, the rocks were shaped to make the lashing easier with grooves or indentations to keep the rawhide or other bindings in place. Drilled maces appeared by the late-Mesolithic era. These maces had a central hole for the haft. Drilling this hole was a huge technological challenge in a pre-metals society. Many of the earliest drilled maces show signs of rotary drilling. However, it is not known if they were simply drilled right through, perhaps with the use of a bow-drill, or if other techniques were used.

Source:Maces

Either way.

Harte

For the balls with cord grooves ,
hunting net or fish net weights are a possibility.

reply to post by Harte


i'm not disagreeing with you, i'm enjoying a rare rational exchange of ideas/opinions on ats

re the drilling of holes in stone, it's difficult ofc, but many enthusiasts can accurately replicate it today - the paleoplanet link i included on page one has many such enthusiasts, a few of whom are highly skilled at making reproductions of ancient artifacts - it was a real eye opener for me when i started flint knapping and making stone tools etc then discovered online communities sharing work that provided me with something to aim for