Atheist Church opens in London

reply to post by sulaw


It's not a church. It was labelled that by some lazy journalists. It's a place where atheists can assemble.

Originally posted by grainofsand
If I agreed with every single point any politician made they would get my vote, theist or otherwise. I'm not fussy about any particular faith, or lack thereof, if I agree with every single point they make.

Excellent response! (and lets be honest, the only logical one). Now lets delve a bit deeper!

Lets say there are two politicians, one such as the religious type described, and one with zero religious affiliation. You agree with both of them on say, 7/10 of their priorities. Which one receives your vote and why?

Originally posted by Serdgiam
Lets say there are two politicians, one such as the religious type described, and one with zero religious affiliation. You agree with both of them on say, 7/10 of their priorities. Which one receives your vote and why?

Sorry man, I try not to go off-topic in someone elses thread so I'm not going there anymore, it's irrelevant.

Although I am happy to see a weekly social gathering of people who do not believe in any gods in an environment where there is no collective perception of a need to pretend.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
reply to post by sulaw

 

It's not a church. It was labelled that by some lazy journalists. It's a place where atheists can assemble.

Then they should be able to assemble. See how shoddy journalism get's a ruse of the masses. They should take his/her keyboard away for publishing that. Seriously.

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by Serdgiam
Lets say there are two politicians, one such as the religious type described, and one with zero religious affiliation. You agree with both of them on say, 7/10 of their priorities. Which one receives your vote and why?

Sorry man, I try not to go off-topic in someone elses thread so I'm not going there anymore, it's irrelevant.

Although I am happy to see a weekly social gathering of people who do not believe in any gods in an environment where there is no collective perception of a need to pretend.

Fair enough, I definitely understand The point was that religion, amongst many other things, has more control on the counter-cultures it produces than those counter-cultures tend to want to admit.

I am always happy to see a weekly social gathering of people in an environment where there is no collective perception of a need to pretend. Though, it doesnt matter to me whether or not they believe in God(s), or even if it has anything to do with belief/non-belief systems. As before, I dont see an issue with it at all unless it espouses extremist idealogy (i.e. violence towards others, forcing of beliefs, etc).

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by Wonders

 

Have you noticed the glaringly obvious errors in your post?

For you to prove god exists would not be you proving a negative, proving a negative is proving that something that does not exist does not exist. It would be the opposite proving that something does exist therefore proving a positive.

You also claim it is unfair that us atheists don't share our facts that god does not exist yet you claim there is enough evidence that god does exist but provide no such evidence. The fact is nobody has ever provided evidence of the existence of a god, okay people do try with near death experiences but these are easily dismissed as hallucinations and dreams.

You are correct that atheists can't prove a negative but we can take supposed facts from the bible ie. genesis and completely prove it undeniably incorrect. For instance we know the earth was not formed in a week, we can look out into the universe and see how planets are actually created. We know the earth is closer to 4.5 billion years old than 6000. We can work our way through the bible and correct mistakes so easily. You have to wonder as a christian that if so much of the bible is incorrect what makes you believe any of it is true?

We don't mind retaliation but please try retaliate with evidence. If you do you'll be the only person alive who can. I know it's hard learning that everything you have been brought up to believe is untrue but that's just the way it is.

EDIT: We don't want you to turn the other cheek, we just want you to keep your false beliefs out of our schools and government so we can progress as a species.

edit on 11-2-2013 by GafferUK1981 because: (no reason given)

Yeah, I knew I should have clarified for those who obviously don't understand satire. Tell me, when a person goes to the doctor and is told that she tested negative for breast cancer.......You CAN prove a negative. There is evidence, look through both of the threads I authored and you still wouldn't know the half of it.
People have provided evidence, other people just REFUSE to believe those people. You WILL find out eventually that God is very much real. I guarentee it.
You are pitifully grasping at the wind trying to convince me that God's not real, you have not experienced anything YET, I have.
The fact that you ignore your own glaring mistakes and focus on what you think is wrong with me shows that no evidence from me will suffice, you need to get back to those paid shills you call scientists.
Christianity is not hindering your progression, you are using it as a scapegoat.
You can not shame me into disbelieving just because you don't want responsibility for yourself.

Originally posted by Serdgiam

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by Serdgiam
Lets say there are two politicians, one such as the religious type described, and one with zero religious affiliation. You agree with both of them on say, 7/10 of their priorities. Which one receives your vote and why?

Sorry man, I try not to go off-topic in someone elses thread so I'm not going there anymore, it's irrelevant.

Although I am happy to see a weekly social gathering of people who do not believe in any gods in an environment where there is no collective perception of a need to pretend.

Fair enough, I definitely understand

The point was that religion, amongst many other things, has more control on the counter-cultures it produces than those counter-cultures tend to want to admit.

Lack of belief in any gods is not a produced counter culture.

I am always happy to see a weekly social gathering of people in an environment where there is no collective perception of a need to pretend. Though, it doesnt matter to me whether or not they believe in God(s), or even if it has anything to do with belief/non-belief systems. As before, I dont see an issue with it at all unless it espouses extremist idealogy (i.e. violence towards others, forcing of beliefs, etc).

It appears we share a similar standpoint.

Originally posted by grainofsand
Lack of belief in any gods is not a produced counter culture.

Right, right. I am well aware of that song and dance.

The very fact you used the word "gods" would imply differently, however. Anti-theism, by its very definition and language constructs would also imply differently. Just sayin'

Regardless, I am happy to see something like this happen. As long as they do not attempt to force their beliefs (sorry, non-beliefs) down others throats, I have zero issues with it and encourage it deeply.

edit: Now, what I would LOVE to see from something like this is an organization that encourages its participants to actively do science and practice the scientific method. Its nice to jibber-jabber about it, but so much more fun and productive to actually do it. Encourage the "common man," so to speak, to partake in real science.

Originally posted by Serdgiam
Regardless, I am happy to see something like this happen. As long as they do not attempt to force their beliefs (sorry, non-beliefs) down others throats, I have zero issues with it and encourage it deeply

I espouse the same feelings towards any religious groups who meet regularly to promote solely faith based messages.

Originally posted by Serdgiamedit: Now, what I would LOVE to see from something like this is an organization that encourages its participants to actively do science and practice the scientific method. Its nice to jibber-jabber about it, but so much more fun and productive to actually do it. Encourage the "common man," so to speak, to partake in real science.

I suspect religious support would decline at a much faster rate if this became the norm.

Originally posted by Barcs
reply to post by Wonders

 

People aren't saying god absolutely doesn't exist. They are saying that since there is no objective evidence of a creator, that belief in such a being is illogical. That's the simple fact of the matter right there. You don't need to prove something wrong to dismiss it as poor logic. Burden of proof is on the person making the claim, so if you say god exists and suggest it is a logical belief, you need to show evidence. Burden of proof is not on the person who says your claim of god is BS.

So, say there's a class of down syndrome children, teachers try to teach, but some children can't understand while others do, is it the teacher's fault that some of those children don't understand...do you suppose then that the children who don't understand could try a different way of learning that would be better for them, there are, after all, different ways to learn.

People like gaffer want me to believe that my NDE experience was just a hallucination, that's a pathetic tactic, it tells me, "I don't want to believe you, ergo your mind is tricking you." It's really amazing how unscientificly they come to their conclusions. There IS evidence, people just look at it and say, if someone with a white coat and a nice watch doesn't tell me this, then it's not real. Do your own research folks, I can't do your asking and seeking and knocking for you, if you want understanding, you're gonna have to try for it, otherwise get back in line.

Originally posted by Wonders
People like gaffer want me to believe that my NDE experience was just a hallucination, that's a pathetic tactic, it tells me, "I don't want to believe you, ergo your mind is tricking you." It's really amazing how unscientificly they come to their conclusions. There IS evidence, people just look at it and say, if someone with a white coat and a nice watch doesn't tell me this, then it's not real. Do your own research folks, I can't do your asking and seeking and knocking for you, if you want understanding, you're gonna have to try for it, otherwise get back in line.

Oh my goodness, I'm nearly in tears about the injustice you seem to have suffered. Perhaps start a thread about it and see if anyone else is interested?

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by Wonders
People like gaffer want me to believe that my NDE experience was just a hallucination, that's a pathetic tactic, it tells me, "I don't want to believe you, ergo your mind is tricking you." It's really amazing how unscientificly they come to their conclusions. There IS evidence, people just look at it and say, if someone with a white coat and a nice watch doesn't tell me this, then it's not real. Do your own research folks, I can't do your asking and seeking and knocking for you, if you want understanding, you're gonna have to try for it, otherwise get back in line.

Oh my goodness, I'm nearly in tears about the injustice you seem to have suffered. Perhaps start a thread about it and see if anyone else is interested?

I'm not suffering from any injustice that is is uncommon to anyone else. People are just as interested in my story as they are with others who have shared their experiences, most are just interested in looking for any flaws that they have been conditioned to look for..to give excuses they were conditioned to uphold. I see the points they choose to ignore, but they'll find out eventually, no doubt about it.

reply to post by Wonders

Cool, I'm just happy about non-gods-believing people having a new avenue for their expression in the UK

Originally posted by grainofsand
I suspect religious support would decline at a much faster rate if this became the norm.

While it is a possibility, I do have my doubts about it. Many people want an authority to appeal to, "supernatural" or not. I think that we are seeing this with science nowadays too. Very, very few actually practice it themselves, and they just take anothers word for it. "Why do I need to do the experiments myself, they are already done!" "Why would I go to God directly? I use a church and priest for that!" So, perhaps we would see a reduction in that authority being a "God," but we would see higher incidences of the authority being amalgamized and perhaps even proprietary science. The same type of people that used religion to manipulate would jump on this like white on rice (if they have not already, mind you).

While its a bit off topic (I apologize grainofsand and OP..), I actually feel we should be encouraging individuals to do their own exploration. I firmly believe our education system should be re-invented. I think that the elementary school years (for Americans) should be solely focused on practicing and performing the scientific method. Teach the basics of math, the method, etc. and literally tell the children to go explore the world and come back with their findings to the class for peer review. Maybe its just me, but.. how amazingly fun would that be?! Then in the middle and high school years start to teach "what we currently know to be true." I think its backwards to teach our children WHAT to know, then teach them how to question it.

Alas, that does not create good worker drones and encourages individuality, so Id be shocked to see it happen. The sad part is, the results of a few generations of such education would very likely yield a higher quality of life for everyone involved. I could be wrong though.