Native American Confronts Protesters on Illegal Immigration

I dont think the he made a good argument, and I dont get this train of thought.

In fact, the fate of native americans teaches us what the consequences of uncontrolled immigration can be for the original culture.

So it actually supports the anti-immigrant stance.

reply to post by Thunder heart woman

That's just the thing. Native Americans didn't believe that they owned the land. They believed that we are merely conservators of it until we die and our children live upon it. It was the immigrants who believed they owned that land, sectioned it off and sold it

That's not entirely true. Some did some did not In fact several sold their lands to settlers and the government. I am not trying to say they were not treated badly. However what's with this us stuff? You were not there and neither was I. We did not do anything to you. Its stupid to base today on what peoples ancestors did. What happened happened we weren't there but we are here now and we need to leave the wrongs of the past in the past and move forward and not repeat them. If people are being treated badly today then that is for us to deal with the best we can. But this whole argument about your ancestors treated mine badly accomplishes nothing but division hatred and strife.

People against illegal immigration are idiots. The reasons illegals come here is because there is a need for them. If there wasn't they would not come here simply because there would be no opportunity.

Americans exploit them, low ball them on pay, discriminate against them then after they are used they call for their deportation.

An observation. I worked many odd jobs during my college years. I worked in factories and construction sites. In factories I saw employers hire people knowing they were illegals and paying them half the wages.

In construction I saw illegals being hired and payed half of what their wages should be and on top of that they would rent them safety equipment required to be provided for free by osha.

they allow your industry to save a ton and then you turn around and want to deport them. Bunch of idiots.

they do not get taxed and guess what?? they like to spend which keeps you employed. They have more to spend since unlike us they get to keep what they get even though they get shafted on pay usually.

Also if you want them to come here legally... i will say this, if you can afford the cost and have the time to do it legally then you are better off where you are. If you do not believe me simply look into legally immigrating to a nation across the pond... if you can afford it and meet the requirements you are probably better off staying where you are.

Originally posted by Maslo
I dont think the he made a good argument, and I dont get this train of thought.

In fact, the fate of native americans teaches us what the consequences of uncontrolled immigration can be for the original culture.

So it actually supports the anti-immigrant stance.

His point is that the people protesting illegal immigration are illegals themselves. It would be like illegals from mexico protesting illegals from china.. they are both illegals.

Originally posted by Juggernog
A dominate people with a dominate army discover a land thats inhabited by a weaker people with a weaker army and this happened over 100 years ago by people that are long dead.

(Ignoring the abundant spelling and grammatical errors, and focusing just on the inane argument)

How about this scenario: A smarter group of people (hispanics) infiltrate the borders of a country whose inhabitants are too dumb to protect their borders properly.

That's the situation today, sounds just like the argument you made above.

You say that basically the native americans have to just "take it", I guess you're just gonna have to take it as well aren't you?

reply to post by votan

Americans exploit them,

i most certainly did not.

i can't afford to hire anyone and if i did, i wouldn't exploit them, so that's probably why i don't have anything extravagant.

my skin did not invade america, nor did it kill people. my skin is my skin, not some guy from 200 years ago.

if we're gonna keep following this approach of blame melanin for things that happened centuries or decades ago, not even by the same people, perhaps we can also hold whole genders responsible for things they never personally did. like, how would you like to be called a rapist if you've never raped anyone, based simply on your gender.

can people please get a grip on reality.

Originally posted by BrandonD
How about this scenario: A smarter group of people (hispanics) infiltrate the borders of a country whose inhabitants are too dumb to protect their borders properly.

That's the situation today, sounds just like the argument you made above.

You say that basically the native americans have to just "take it", I guess you're just gonna have to take it as well aren't you?

Can't put it any clearer than that.

At the end of the day all our laws don't matter if they don't stop it. We're all starting to learn the truth about laws. They're real so long as we believe in them, but they don't matter in the moment when facing someone who doesn't and they are more clever than you or just "more of them" than you.

So whatwegonnado?

I also don't see this man trying to claim that Native Americans were some perfect people who didn't fight themselves. He's just pointing out as clearly and firmly as possible (because to be honest way too many people ignore polite criticism... or don't even hear it at all)... that those protesting are being overrun in the same way they were (but far more gently overall). Boo hoo from his perspective if we can't stop it. We'll "deal" with it just like they did.

And he's right... but we don't want to face it that we aren't willing to "do what it takes" to TRULY stop it (just as they weren't willing or able to do what it takes to stop us) and we're trying to fall back on words on paper to stop people from pursuing food in belly and support for family back home. Won't work. They never will care about that paper so long as someone else is willing to give them the "sort of paper" they really need in violation of "the law".

So again... whatwegonnado? Shoot'em'all? We already know that won't work... neither will a wall... history has tried those things. Words on paper certainly aren't working.

So whatwegonnado? More words on paper? More pretend border control? What? I think "we're" going to find ourselves on this gentleman's side after enough time. 'Tis life and history. Rise and fall... come and go.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConclusion
Can't put it any clearer than that.

At the end of the day all our laws don't matter if they don't stop it. We're all starting to learn the truth about laws. They're real so long as we believe in them, but they don't matter in the moment when facing someone who doesn't and they are more clever than you or just "more of them" than you.

So whatwegonnado?

edit on 6-2-2013 by ErgoTheConclusion because: (no reason given)

Most ordinary people are justifiably angry and frustrated about their lives, and cannot draw a straight line from their troubles to the precise causes.

Which is EXCELLENT for the ruling class, because they get to design for us a virtual menu of entirely false causes of our troubles.

Which we gulp down happily. Now we have someone to blame. Even if the blame is totally unfounded, at least we have someone to blame.

There are many things creating the poverty and inequality in this society, but illegal immigration is not one of them. It's a bogeyman that taps into the latent racism of our society, drawing out the worst in us.

reply to post by BrandonD

I completely agree.

I understand the effects it is having (good and bad... can't ignore the "good" otherwise won't understand who would be motivated to ensure it keeps going)... but I also see the "leadership" hands that are pretending to fight it while in fact feeding it and see that it's a game being played against us to waste generally well intentioned but misdirected and ultimately futile energy.

reply to post by BrandonD

It's a bogeyman that taps into the latent racism of our society,

it doesn't sound like racism to me. it sounds like financial common sense. if you know you only have so many bowls of soup to feed your family, you are careful with them. you don't just go tossing them out in the street unless you want to starve your own family to death. responsibility begins at home does it not? and here at home, we already are struggling with starvation. adding more to that problem,only exacerbates the plights of minorities and poor people, who are already here. what part of this is hard to understand??????????????????

reply to post by undo

Because it is not immigrants that are making the poor here poorer. The effect they *do* have they is a symptom... not a cause. But our culture has been conditioned to react so quickly to the surfaces causes "from the outside" without stopping to really go for the underlying root problem from the "inside".

"They" will keep coming. Why? Because we will keep paying them to while spending time debating about laws. But the people paying them are already breaking the laws. It's a cultural issue... not a legal issue or a border issue or anything else.

And the fact is you are right... it is a financial issue... and those with most of the finances stand to lost the most by stopping it. So who do you think is going to "win" this one? Who do you think is always planning to "win" this one and is ensuring the debate stays at a level where we won't ever really go for the root source?

Originally posted by votan
People against illegal immigration are idiots.

edit on 6-2-2013 by votan because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-2-2013 by votan because: (no reason given)

People for open borders are idiots. Are you ready to let everyone in Ethiopia come here as well? How about Somalia? Where does it stop? Should we send a open invitation for everyone all over the world who wants to come over freely to come on over? And if 2 billion people show up at our doorsteps let them in?

Thats what you are implying is it not? Thats idiotic in my eyes!!!!!!!

Originally posted by hellbjorn012
People for open borders are idiots. Are you ready to let everyone in Ethiopia come here as well? How about Somalia? Where does it stop? Should we send a open invitation for everyone all over the world who wants to come over freely come on over? And if 2 billion people show up at our doorsteps let them in?

Thats what you are implying is it not? Thats idiotic in my eyes!!!!!!!

Except that's exactly how almost everyone's ancestors got here.

What idiots.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConclusion

Originally posted by hellbjorn012
People for open borders are idiots. Are you ready to let everyone in Ethiopia come here as well? How about Somalia? Where does it stop? Should we send a open invitation for everyone all over the world who wants to come over freely come on over? And if 2 billion people show up at our doorsteps let them in?

Thats what you are implying is it not? Thats idiotic in my eyes!!!!!!!

Except that's exactly how almost everyone's ancestors got here.

What idiots.

edit on 6-2-2013 by ErgoTheConclusion because: (no reason given)

Good how many are you gonna let move into your house?

Originally posted by undo
it doesn't sound like racism to me. it sounds like financial common sense. if you know you only have so many bowls of soup to feed your family, you are careful with them. you don't just go tossing them out in the street unless you want to starve your own family to death. responsibility begins at home does it not? and here at home, we already are struggling with starvation. adding more to that problem,only exacerbates the plights of minorities and poor people, who are already here. what part of this is hard to understand??????????????????

The idea that poverty is being caused by other poor people is a complete and utter lie, being fostered by wealthy people who are funneling money out of communities and blaming it on mythical "black welfare mamas" and illegal immigrants stealing valuable jobs from the white americans who (of course) rightfully deserve them.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


correct, so it's not racism against central or south americans. i mean, aren't mexicans caucasian??? it's obvious that adding more to an already unaddressed issue is exacerbating the problem.

Originally posted by hellbjorn012
Good how many are you gonna let move into your house?

I dunno, which ones do I like and get along well with?

Consider the population densities around the world: en.wikipedia.org...

Where is the US?

You can pretend like there isn't room here but there is plenty... and there is plenty of money if we weren't being manipulated specifically to stay as poor as possible whether you are citizen or not while trillions of dollars and assets are siphoned off out of the country.

And for the record I'm not actually in support of 100% open borders, but I do enjoy chuckling at our flailing about as the problem continues year after year... as we fail to comprehend who our "enemy" really is and how there are interests in this country who will never allow it to stop because it's too profitable to pay for the cheaper labor, but instead we... like always... go for the "weaker" target because we don't even know where to start with the corporations and small businesses hiring all of these people.

Yay another thread to try and induce white guilt. :/All sovereign nation have border policy's why should the US be different?

All those who want open borders please fill out a form stating how many you are gonna let move in your house and on your property.

Originally posted by hellbjorn012
People for open borders are idiots. Are you ready to let everyone in Ethiopia come here as well? How about Somalia? Where does it stop?

Friggin hiLARious.

Yea, all those Ethiopians and Somali families that can't even afford rice have somehow managed to secure a passport and a plane ticket across the Atlantic Ocean.

Or perhaps you were thinking they would all swim here?