Native American Confronts Protesters on Illegal Immigration

reply to post by yorkshirelad

He is 100% correct.

I don't think any grown man, who can antagonize a crowd of protesters, shout obscenities with a fowl mouth and insult women over a point that is at best arguable ? Can be right about anything, when he's doing it while pushing a stroller. I think this guy is discredit to his people whom I actually hold in high regard.

He's 100% wrong.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
You only own what you can defend.

The Red Indians failed to defend their own lands and worse, were on constant warfare with each other. They had no system of effective governance but only utilitarian barbarism upon each other.

It was only a matter of time before they wiped each other out, for history had proven no barbaric society could survive. If not for the english immigrants, it would other ethnic immigrants from our world whom may had settled upon the american landmass, such as the russians or the chinese, if they had their own act together back then.

Today, in our modern and evolved santised world, it is easy to condemn the english settlers of atrocities against the red indians, nor should there be any attempt to cover up such atrocities.

However, EQUALLY, mankind SHOULD NOT attempt to cover up the barbarisms of the red indians wrecked upon innocent american settlers EVEN AFTER peace had been agreed upon.

Only the truth can set us free. May the freed indians today whom lived in a better rule of law american society today and treated equally as a fellow american, reflect upon their own ancestors before pointing angry fingers at current day americans.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the American Society that you are speaking of wouldn't exist without The League of Iroquois. In fact the their notions of Checks and Balances and a representative Republic, greatly influenced individuals like Jefferson, Franklin, Paine...etc.

Furthermore, this nonsense about "Native" American is just another Race-Bating, perpetual arguing gimmick. In fact, one could argue ANYONE born on American soil... is without a doubt...a Native American. Granted, this is an argument of semantics, but still.

What happened to my ancestors, Cherokee and Blackfeet... in mind was horrible. But there comes a time when we need to address actual problems and not continue with the Divide and Conquer standardizes of the NWO.

In closing, while the gentlemen has his points... he is feeding a fire that is designed to further create hardships on his, as well as ALL people.

Peace!

Originally posted by polarwarrior

Originally posted by Night Star
There isn't a white man alive today who had anything to do with what happened back then.

Except benefit from it.

And refuse to give the land back, and be hypocritical when more people want to come, and perpetuate the old racist stereotypes about their culture (as seen in this thread) etc.

The government rufuses to give the land back. Many citizens would like to see the Natives have their land returned. As for immigrants coming, no one cares if they come legally. Coming illegally can bring disease and criminals which no one wants.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by Night Star

 

Are you telling me the "long time ago" incident absolutely have no effect on the current generation of natives or blacks? like everything resets to 0 and everyone starts from equal ground after the who incident is over?

Some just can't understand oppression.

No sir, I never said it didn't effect them. Of course it effected them and deeply, It also effected many whites who who were also against what was done to the Natives. People assume that all whites of that time hated Indians and vice versa. I also have non native ancestory where one guy married an Indian woman and ended up embracing her way of life and went to live with the Indians.

It is so unfair to judge all whites of today for what others have done. It is putting blame on many innocent and Indian loving non native people. Can you see and understand that?

I am mostly French and Irish though I have native Indian ancestory from both sides of the family. There was some loving going around somewhere. LOL

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


but the barbarism was against there own they didnt travel to other continents and terrorize other cultures basically your saying well they werent using the land they had like they should so we as (civilized people) should take it and put it to better use this reminds me of current times in the middle east where the u.s tries to force there way of life on others and are shocked and surprised when the indigenous people rebel and become (terrorist)

You know what I find interesting on ATS...you cannot be racist or use racist terms on here,,except when it comes to the Native Americans.

I have seen a post about Natives one here that it would take lesser stuff on any other race, culture, or religion to be warned..yet no warning.

DO THE RULES ON ATS APPLY FOR EVERYONE OR WHAT?

Everyone who says fought harder and such BS, the white man brought disease and weakened the Natives, yet they still fought on..where as most would have surrendered. The white man are the people who brought up treaties to save their butts.

They created lies to appease the Native population knowing full well these people were willing to die for their cause and with it take many other lives.

So even when fighting a weakened opponent due to starvation and disease..the white man knew the only way to truly get this land was to create lies and lull the people into a sense that these people only wanted peace and to to share the land. Not knowing that the white man was full of lies. They white man was the first to use chemical warfare..sending disease filled blankets and rancid meat to the Natives.


So the protestor is right..they never asked for the Europeans to be here yet here you are. Sounds like the Mexicans..if only they used the same tactics as the white man this land could be theirs.


I also love how some people on here say that because of the white man, other cultures would not have survived and that it is only because of the white man there is this and that. Such BS...other cultures were fine before they came and did not care of the so called advancements because their lives were great with out them. Who is to say that they would not have come to these things themselves in their own time and since they did not...they obviously had no need for them. Cultures advanced when the needed to.


I ASK AGAIN ATS..DO THE SAME RULES APPLY OR IS THERE SOME SORT OF PRO RACISM FOR NATIVES ON HERE.

Originally posted by WhiteAlice
I find it so interesting that so many people seem to think that what happened to the Native Americans was a "long time ago" or some rubbish like that. Hate to burst those bubbles but my daughter's grandfather (he's in his 50's) was removed from his home and raised in a boarding school that abused him whenever he spoke his native tongue. He sure wasn't the only one who grew up like that on the reservation that I lived on in Arizona for 7 years. Whole lot of Nat Am Baby Boomers with boarding school scars.

He's not even a senior technically yet but yep, all that stuff that we did with the Nat Am was a long time ago. Keep telling yourselves that.

Because most people are refering to when the white man first came here. What happened to your child's Grandather was wrong and should never have happened.

Also love people saying get over it when it comes to native and black history when atrocities have been done to them.

Yet never forget when 9/11 and the Jewish holocaust occurred. Yeah no racism there...

It is never forget when it happens to the white culture..yet get over it when any other culture.

Why do white people call other cultures barbarians, and then in the same sentence say the white man brought culture..etc. Which is BS..the just knew how to manipulate and hide their motives better.

I would disagree with this man in video, even if he had enough for thought, to dignify himself by pushing the child home first and then engaging the protesters upon return. There is no limit to what could have happened as a result of his thoughtless provocations. Frankly, I think he's an idiot.

ATS We have opinions on everything. But are proactive where?
You think Obama is not trying to turn the country into a major welfare state? The reservations are the models they are using. First it was natives on the plains, then it was blacks into urban areas, now its gonna be everybody into education camps.
Everybody is so worried about the past we are steam rolling our own futures. If the Natives cared so much about what is right or wrong rather than what happen to THEM they should be stepping up and warning right.? I mean they are the experts of this system & its history, right? How many have been on a reservation even? Very depressed people there.
Their fault?

Only one major one! They belived Washington DC could be trusted & they would take care of them. It has nothing to do with Hollywood mmmwhite man! Africa isnt being run by mmmwhite man. Mugabe aint white. Kona aint white Neither is Kim or Mao or Castro or Obama or Saud.

It is about greedy people drunk on power. PERIOD. In my book. So sick of the race thing. My Gawd!!!

The whole thing is ridiculous he is claiming he has more right to the land because his ancestors were here before their ancestors. He and those he was yelling at were both born here so they are all native Americans and the people he is yelling at did not kill his ancestors or him. Its just more racial divide and conquer of the people.

Several native American tribes have prophecies that they would live in harmony with all peoples who came here that is where we should all be focused.

A drunk "native American" complaining about the white man?

I've never seen this before.

reply to post by cornucopia


Actually, his argument is bunk. I'm as native American as he is. His ancestors have no more claim to this land than mine. They all came from Africa anyway. So basically he's just doing what the other idiots were doing.

The Indians lost the wars. Even though we didnt treat them with honor, you lost. It's to bad.

However, we can stop illegal Immigration, and win it. If we can stop something, or further limit something unlawful, then it should be done.

By the way, I am not an immigrant, I was born in the United States. I am just as native to America as the original tribes.

Bad thing about losing wars, you lose ...everything, ask the Indians.

-------

I don't have anything against Indians, matter of fact, I'm a quarter Cherokee, and I even helped an elderly Indian woman with her truck at Hardee's today

So, I was born here, making me a Native American. My forefathers just won the wars for me so I could have that possibility.

I don't see their argument. Were they treated like dirt? Yes? Welcome to the world.

reply to post by eXia7


exactly. I am about half Indian (yes that's what we call ourselves), and i get the POV. He was pointing out the hypocrisy. He wasn't really saying anything against immigration. IMO. I believe we should have totally open borders, though, so maybe I hold an unpopular opinion.

NWO, bring it on. These damned rabid jingoists are getting crazier by the year.

Originally posted by Dispo
America seems like such an angry place.

True.

Its ironic that America "happened" because of all the "anger" of those leaving Britain and Europe, wouldn't you say?

If this native American is so pious, let the illegals live on the reservation. He is a hypocrite, he wants to tell everyone else what he himself is unwilling to do. WAAAAAAA, my people suffered so everything I say is important. Lame. Its typical liberal ideology to play to emotion rather than reason. EVERYONE'S people at one time or another had atrocities committed against them. Pick up a history book, it is no excuse for poor logic.

He is telling people they are wrong for being bombarded by people who have no respect for the law and that the protesters should basically shut up and allow whoever wants to live here to do so, regardless of laws. He though will not allow ANYONE to live on native land, even own it. That is hypocrisy. Its funny how america has to let all of the mexicans in yet the mexicans wont allow us to even buy land. Hypocrisy. Its also funny how the mexicans guard their precious borders from the guatemalans at gunpoint yet we americans must go without a border. Hypocrisy.

Maybe some americans are just sick of supporting third world hell holes and would like to worry about themselves(i.e.unemployment, entitlements) instead of everyone else......

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
You only own what you can defend.

The Red Indians failed to defend their own lands and worse, were on constant warfare with each other. They had no system of effective governance but only utilitarian barbarism upon each other.

It was only a matter of time before they wiped each other out, for history had proven no barbaric society could survive. If not for the english immigrants, it would other ethnic immigrants from our world whom may had settled upon the american landmass, such as the russians or the chinese, if they had their own act together back then.

Today, in our modern and evolved santised world, it is easy to condemn the english settlers of atrocities against the red indians, nor should there be any attempt to cover up such atrocities.

However, EQUALLY, mankind SHOULD NOT attempt to cover up the barbarisms of the red indians wrecked upon innocent american settlers EVEN AFTER peace had been agreed upon.

Only the truth can set us free. May the freed indians today whom lived in a better rule of law american society today and treated equally as a fellow american, reflect upon their own ancestors before pointing angry fingers at current day americans.

How very ill-informed.

You speak of barbarism and point this finger at the Native Americans? I think you might want to read a book!

It was only a matter of time before they wiped each other out? Yet they had existed for tens of thousands of years without wiping each other out! People, animals, landscapes only started getting wiped out when the Europeans arrived.

I would also like to ask if you can back up your last point about 'freed Indians today' living in a better American society and being treated as equals. Is that their view or just your own? I doubt very much it is their view.

All in all your post was a pretty poor attempt to justify what was in essence, ethnic cleansing.

We should move on as one, but the past should not be forgotten or rewritten!

Originally posted by Spookycolt
reply to post by Taissa

 

Is there a universal rule somewhere that if you are the first somewhere it belongs to you?

We planted our flag on the moon quite awhile ago so does that mean the moon belongs to Americans?

That's just the thing. Native Americans didn't believe that they owned the land. They believed that we are merely conservators of it until we die and our children live upon it. It was the immigrants who believed they owned that land, sectioned it off and sold it. They were greedy. They took the fat. That is what "wasicu" means anyway, it means "one who takes the fat".

But because we WERE here a hell of a lot longer, we had the belief that the land not only did not belong to US it didn't belong to the newcomers either. That euro mentality of ownership was taught and pushed onto the natives as they sectioned off the less fruitful lands and pushed them on to it, and ever since then, the govt keeps coming back to take more and more. Poison our lands with their uranium mining, and so on. Look at what happened to the Navajo people and their land in the 70's and 80's.

Some people talk as if everything bad that happened to natives here only happened back in the 1800's - the turn of the century. Start doing some news researching on what is taking place all over this country in various tribes, and you will find that we STILL have to fight for what little was given to us and that treaties are broken repeatedly.

Over 500 nations of Native Americans on this land and some act as if that never meant anything.

Our people are not defeated. We still exist, we struggle, we move forward and keep on. Many of us go to college and graduate and work as doctors, lawyers, teachers, business owners, etc. We're not just a bunch of drunken and drugged out poor people slopping around on our lands taking welfare. I don't appreciate the stereotype we are constantly bombarded with that all natives are nothing but drunkards. But really, if we want to review the history of alcohol and natives, who introduced it to them in the first place? I was told by my grandfather that the drink helped with conquering many tribes, including the diseases that people brought over to this country. You can't fight when you are under foot of the drink and disease.

With that said, I do believe the Lakota was one of the best fighters in a battle field, and fought with a strategy that even Custer could not understand. They were underestimated at Little Big Horn, which is exactly why they HAD to disarm us and once they did get the guns, bows, and knives away, THEN they shot us, killed us or burned us out.

You tell me... is that an honorable way to conquer a people? Go on and sit there and tell me again how "if only we fought hard enough we would have won every battle". That's hilarious, given that we were totally DISARMED and our women and children brutally murdered before every man's eyes.

I would love to take time to go point by point but I don't care to.

Every single thread on Natives on ATS turns into nothing but a racist brawl. Why does Skeptic Overlord allow THAT to go on? Why do the mods allow it time and again?

There are a good deal of natives from different tribes that post here on ATS and all I ever see is racism against natives. Do you even know how offensive you are being toward all of us? I bet you do and just don't care.

Either way, this is why I hardly bother with any thread on natives in any section of this web site, because last time I tried to join in on an informative topic and lend my knowledge, it turned extremely racist and nasty while mods just sat by and did nothing.

Why is that?

reply to post by seamus


They are a bunch of hypocrites. Seriously. Stand out on a corner and protest immigrants, when everyone is an immigrant?

I love it when people say that this country was founded on Christianity. No, sorry, it wasn't. It was founded first by the Native Americans, and OUR spirituality and not of the Christian God.

And, I'm definitely no racist. We have non natives who come live on the reservation and take up residency there, and they are usually accepted if they treat everyone else with respect and kindness. I don't care who comes to live there either.

And for those griping about the third world conditions on some of these reservations, WOW. I say, come and try to live there in that hell hole. Oh wait, your govt IS turning the United states into one big hell hole. People losing their homes, jobs, and living in their cars, tent cities, etc. Looks to me like the govt is turning this country into one big reservation in many ways. A friend of mine went to Detroit last summer and came back and told me he thought it looked like our rez.