Native American Confronts Protesters on Illegal Immigration

did that post make sense? i keep re-reading it and realize i didn't do a very good job expressing what i think russel meant. he was basically saying he's a free man and anybody who disagreed could kiss his tail feathers.

Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by WhiteAlice
I find it so interesting that so many people seem to think that what happened to the Native Americans was a "long time ago" or some rubbish like that. Hate to burst those bubbles but my daughter's grandfather (he's in his 50's) was removed from his home and raised in a boarding school that abused him whenever he spoke his native tongue. He sure wasn't the only one who grew up like that on the reservation that I lived on in Arizona for 7 years. Whole lot of Nat Am Baby Boomers with boarding school scars.

He's not even a senior technically yet but yep, all that stuff that we did with the Nat Am was a long time ago. Keep telling yourselves that.

Because most people are refering to when the white man first came here. What happened to your child's Grandather was wrong and should never have happened.

It's all one and the same. Invasion and conquering is only the first step. Second step is enforced cultural assimilation and that was done through the boarding schools over a very long period of time. You may think that there isn't a single person alive that had anything to do with the whole process and you'd be wrong. To this day, even with land being "given" back to the tribes (frequently not their original lands), they still have very little control over it. Much of the land is federally owned and managed which means that it tends to serve the federal government's interest and not the tribes. Even more crappy, our politicians for the last few decades have been absorbing the royalties from the mining operations and more on these tribal lands instead of dispersing them to the frequently poverty struck tribes. The tribe that I was living with had an average family income of just a bit over $6000 ANNUALLY. No worries, all these decades of royalties from gold, silver, coal, uranium and more are finally being "repaid" with $1000 checks. Gee, how generous. They are even considering letting the tribes have an easier time building homes. While I was living on the reservation, there was a projected housing shortage of around 100,000 homes there. www.npr.org...

Meanwhile, in Arizona, the Navajo Nation was recently made to put into a water rights agreement that basically pulls water from their high desert tribal lands so that people elsewhere along the Little Colorado who have been recklessly depleting the stuff can have more of it. The deal? They'll help them build some water treatment plants and give them a little of the Hopi and Navajo tribes water in exchange for the tribes signing away their water rights forever. Whatever could go wrong: www.azcentral.com...

We are still doing stuff to them and treating them like ignorant children because it's more beneficial to us since we control their lands. One can sit there and say that they don't have anything to do with it but in case you all forgot, you are responsible for electing in the government. It's a non-issue to most whites so they don't care and it allows for persistent abuse to go un-arrested at the constituent level.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by undo

 

I prefer the term American Indian because I know its origins . . . As an added distinction the American Indian is the only ethnic group in the United States with the American before our ethnicity . . . We were enslaved as American Indians, we were colonized as American Indians, and we will gain our freedom as American Indians, and then we will call ourselves any damn thing we choose.

statement by Russell Means

Whatever he had done in his lifetime, those words marked a departure from the building up of peace, progress and evolution between Americans and his far-sighted ancestors whom had decided on a course of peace.

Is he calling for american native indians to dishonor the sacrifices of his peaceful ancestors and forefathers whom had benefitted from the rule of law under a secular constitution, and scalp american heads as his once barbaric ancestors had done to innocent settlers?

Whatever the greviances, he has the freedom of speech that his barbaric ancestors did not before the arrival of settlers, and be settled within legal means. There is NO NEED to INFLAME the situation and destroy the peace that all americans had enjoyed for 2 centuries.

Fortunately, only a few hotheads would answer his veiled call. May the community with such insane hotheads that abounds, share, discuss and debate peacefully, legally and HONESTLY. The red indian issues should have ended long ago, and not be revived by insane hotheads, regardless if domestic or foreign ones, whenever the opportunity arises to sow hatred and discord.

Really? Who's the biggest influence behind the scalping boy???

During the French and Indian War, in June 12, 1755, Lieutenant Governor Spencer Phips of Massachusetts Bay colony was offering a bounty of £40 for a male Indian scalp, and £20 for scalps of females or of children under 12 years old.[12][17] In 1756, Pennsylvania Governor Morris, in his Declaration of War against the Lenni Lenape (Delaware) people, offered "130 Pieces of Eight, for the Scalp of Every Male Indian Enemy, above the Age of Twelve Years," and "50 Pieces of Eight for the Scalp of Every Indian Woman, produced as evidence of their being killed.

There's a LOT behind your own culture you might want to learn... Before settlers come here it was only practiced by very specific and few tribes and very uncommon... Based on believe of almost all tribes except a few taking a "part" of an enemy with you brings very bad luck as his soul can stay attached and will torment you forever...

Saying all natives are barbaric people that scalped others is pretty much the same as saying all french and british are incestuous inbreed freaks based on the practice of the royal bloodlines that did so... Your nothing but a racist dude with a serious lack of education...

You should really do what your name says and seek for truth instead of coming here and spread lies...

reply to post by WhiteAlice

We are still doing stuff to them

no "we" are not. you need to get over that hump. number one, if i was doing that to them, that'd mean i was working at a job that pays alot more money per year than i've probably seen in my lifetime.
second, if i don't agree with them doing something, how do you propose i solve it, 1) i would have to live in the same state and 2) i would have to have enough clout and 3) i would have to be able to convince the law makers that the idea needs to change and another avenue for water found. i'd also have to be young enough and healthy enough to do ANY of that.

Originally posted by muse7

Originally posted by yuppa
My.... Native americans sure have problem remembering that they originally came from other countries as well and were not natives really. Both the settlers and indians were tit for tat at each other as well. So where does he get off on talking like that? All of them are hypocrits.

Native Americans were the first people to colonize the americas....hence their name "Native Americans"

Get it?

A name that was given to them wrongly judging by their actual place of residence before north america. That is what I am saying. They themselves were not originally from here so their creation stories are not about North america if they are being truthful.

reply to post by _R4t_


Be honest with yourself and deny ignorances.

Scalping is but one means of violence barbaric people used, FOR CENTURIES as listed in archeology records. It is nothing new. And the barbaric red indians were not only capable of such practices, but even far worse, if you would only admit to truth, realities and facts.

There is no need to hide from it. It was common back then in barbaric cultures, west or east, but MOST certainly not today. So do not be hypocrite and grab for straws to justify your delusions that the red indians of past were angels.

The saddest trend I'm seeing in this debate is the idea that white people approve of the early settlers raping and murdering people. That's disgusting and insulting!

Originally posted by EllaMarina
The saddest trend I'm seeing in this debate is the idea that white people approve of rape and murder and the fact that some of the early settlers did it. That's disgusting and insulting!

edit on 6-2-2013 by EllaMarina because: (no reason given)

The saddest part I am seeing is false statements like this and the desire to hang on to racists division because of ones ancestors. No one here has come anywhere close to approving of rape and murder of any native people get a grip and stop trying to spread hate and division with such false accusations!

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by EllaMarina
The saddest trend I'm seeing in this debate is the idea that white people approve of rape and murder and the fact that some of the early settlers did it. That's disgusting and insulting!

edit on 6-2-2013 by EllaMarina because: (no reason given)

The saddest part I am seeing is false statements like this and the desire to hang on to racists division because of ones ancestors. No one here has come anywhere close to approving of rape and murder of any native people get a grip and stop trying to spread hate and division with such false accusations!

you having reading comprehension problems today ?

reply to post by EllaMarina


So the red indian warriors of past were too noble to gratify their sexual urges upon innocent and often young american settler mothers and espacially even espacially young female children?

What had you been reading or been taught?

End the BS. No party is free from guilt, at least I have the guts to admit it, but do you? Cut playing the victim card. The red indian issue is long over, reparations had been made by both sides, and many generations had been born to put the past behind them, and had progress and evolved into being contributors of the american society we have today.

Only anti-americans such as Iran tyrants, bootlickers and the China CCP govt would resort to such techniques to sow hatred and discord. Would you happen to be one of them?

reply to post by EllaMarina


Actually most people in this discussion were against that, i been at it since this threads inception and i think only two members said something similar to that... its more like "we win the battle and you lose, so shut up" "this is reality" kinda attitude.

They just don't realize the hypocrisy.

ella,

i'm sorry, seeker and hawkiye, don't appear to be able to read. perhaps rephrasing it.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


You are just trying to make them look evil as the settlers to make the invasion seems okay and just, you know kinda what is done in Afghanistan and Iraq.

They may have had brawls, they are humans too, but you are just exaggerating the heck out of it, mixing up all the tribes together.

"they are savages, its okay to kill them"
"ah! i see"

I was just remarking on how people talking about white hypocrisy tend to bring up how badly the settlers mistreated the natives. I wanted to say, 'Dude, no one said we were okay with that."

Then again, I just arrived from the other thread, so that's where I might have seen that sentiment expressed.

reply to post by luciddream


No such intentions came from my part. Any inferences came solely from you or others based upon your comprehension of actual facts and realities, or the lack of it, critical analysis, by yourselves..

Today, we live in a time whereby conquests are roundly condemn. But in the ancient past, it was a far different world, one of which whereby survival of the community is of greatest paramount.

If you read history, you would have realized that majority of american settlers had fled from wars and strife into the new land whereby those who once ruled were fully incapable of forming any civilised rule of law, as they were far too busy killing each other in an unsustainable way of life. The settlers only wanted peace above all.

But unfortunately, the reality of it all was that the inhabitants were more interested in their unsustanible way of life, and sought to slaughter anyone disagreeable, even within their own tribes. IF left on their own, in time the american landmass would have no human left alive at the way such lifestyles was conducted.

Do get a grip on realities. I know how painful truths often are, but it is the only way for flawed humankind to progess and and evolve, but first acknowledging it to correct them.

Today, we - europeans, indians, blacks, chinese, etc, lived in a far more evolved world. It was because of what our ancestors had done - made mistakes but have the courage to correct them to progress, to what we have today and for our future.

And may those whom sought to whitewash the red indian's past do the same.

Originally posted by daryllyn
The truth hurts, apparently. Maybe that's why the protesters didn't respond?

S&F

Edited to Add:

In response to the post below, he technically has a very good reason to be upset and his point is totally valid. Just look at what the original illegal immigrants did to the natives.

They were robbed, raped, murdered and even given blankets infested with smallpox, among other things.

edit on 5-2-2013 by daryllyn because: (no reason given)

While you're right about all of the things immigrants did to Natives back in the day, it's not factual to call them "illegal immigrants", because you'd have to have a law on the books prior to their arrival where the natives made a law making it illegal for people from another nation to show up and do what they did. No such law existed. While what the immigrants id to the natives is deplorable and nothing to be proud of, it wasn't illegal to show up and make a homestead.

They weren't illegal immigrants, but they certainly were people we'd kick off our own land if they happened to show up today.

whats with all the "red indian" titling going on here? what countries are you guys from lol.
I mean thats not even an incorrect term used here in the US.


I am of the Fond du Lac tribe (Chippewa)
On the reservation itself, you would only EVER see the term "native american" on paper.
They all call themselves "natives" or "indians" when referring to each other.

the terms arent that offensive as people think.


Like calling a black man "african american"
looks good on official paper. but its very condescending when speaking it.
Ive never known a black person to be concerned over being called black.

reply to post by Bisman

looks good on official paper. but its very condescending when speaking it. Ive never known a black person to be concerned over being called black.

Lol, yea.. Seems like its only white people that (think) they are sticking up for blacks, that get offended when you refer to a black person as "black"

reply to post by Thunder heart woman

Every single thread on Natives on ATS turns into nothing but a racist brawl. Why does Skeptic Overlord allow THAT to go on? Why do the mods allow it time and again?

Because if they do not cater to the racist right wing they won't have very many members.