Famous Saudi Preacher Gets Away With Torture and Murder of 5 Year Old Girl

Sorry, maybe I am a bad person, but I cannot forgive an act such as this. He deserves all manner of any imaginative punishments or tortures/death lobbed his way. I would not shed a single tear if a vigilante made him a human pinata or decided to avenge the death of that little girl. Revenge is not always unjust, and not always an act of evil.

Having said my piece, where I draw the line is in blaming the whole of the nation of Saudi Arabia. You cannot blame the whole nation for the act of this one individual. If he ends up in a meatgrinder I will not cry, if others are put to death based on his actions I most assuredly will.

Rightful vengeance is in knowing when it has been sated, and only punishing the guilty for their own transgressions.

Originally posted by Thurisaz

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Thurisaz

 

Losing a hand if you get caught theiving standard practice, so I hear.

hmm well he should lose his life for what he has done...

but he is a religious celebrity who has got away with this???

I lived in the Middle East for a while some years back. This leniency isn't reserved for celebrity. We only know about it because of his celebrity. Any male can do this. Knew a guy once who was upset at work. Asked him why. Said his daughter was returned by her new husbands family for not being a virgin. So he had to shoot her. Or so he told me. I wasn't there. He did seem somewhat upset. Not real bad. But kind of like if you accidentally ran over your own dog.

Oh. And every Monday the gulf daily news would publish the list of public be headings. Normally non Saudis. Every Monday.

Eta: this is just last week beheading

Barbaric place.

reply to post by Darkphoenix77




True...But you can blame a whole nation for not protecting or avenging the pain,

suffering and loss of life of the poor innocent victim.

God given life taken before it's time...

reply to post by FlyersFan

this is absolutely terrible..and this is the same thing the Talmud teaches & I do not see an uproar about it..

Sanhedrin 54b

Raba said. It means this: When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this [three years old], it is as if one puts the finger into the eye; but when a small boy has intercourse with a grown-up woman he makes her as 'a girl who is injured by a piece of wood.'...

Sanhedrin 55b

Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that.24 (24) I.e., Rab makes nine years the minimum; but if one committed sodomy with a child of lesser age, no guilt is incurred. Samuel makes three the minimum.

Kethuboth 11b
[This debate concerns whether or not someone is a virgin. Virginity is prized above all, such that it is believed that a girl under the age of three will regain her virginity, even if a man has had intercourse with her. (Fn. 7 says, in regard to putting "the finger into the eye": "I.e., tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity come back to the little girl under three years.") Since virginity is prized above all, one could assume that this conclusion has allowed grown men to have sex with little girls with immunity. A grown-up woman is not deflowered by having sex with a small boy, however, since he is only like a "piece of wood."]

Avodah Zarah 36b

They decreed in connection with a heathen child that it should cause defilement by seminal emission so that an Israelite child should not become accustomed to commit pederasty with him.... It is therefore to be concluded that a heathen girl [communicates defilement] from the age of three years and one day, for inasmuch as she is then capable of the sexual act she likewise defiles by a flux. This is obvious!

Gad. Shas. 2:2

A boy-goy after nine years and one day old, and a girl after three years and one day old, are considered filthy.

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by Darkphoenix77

 

True...But you can blame a whole nation for not protecting or avenging the pain,

suffering and loss of life of the poor innocent victim.

God given life taken before it's time...

fair enough, I agree that they are responsible for not taking action to punish appropriately and they can be blamed for that. Violence against the nation though will not accomplish anything but the death of innocents. I don't have the answers to change thier society for the better except us trying to be a better example of how a society should behave.

reply to post by FoosM


wrong.



Saudi's were not stopped with a truckload of explosives in NY..Israel's were.
and thats not including the dancing israeli's

nor did they have a false front company in America either.
that was israel's mossad with Urban Moving Systems.

dont forget 7 of the 19 "hijackers" are still alive to this day
and one passed on & and could not have been apart of it
as proved by his friends & family with a death cert.

now were down to 11 imaginary Saudi's.

you've never heard of Identity Theft? or leaving a decoy?
or criminal trying to throw the law off their trail?

Deny Ignorance.

reply to post by reeferman


My understanding is that most Jews do

NOT construe even the Talmud

as GOD'S WORD.

Many only believe the Pentateuch--the books of Moses to be God's Word.

Shall we compare the Talmud to the Hadiths?

But don't most Muslims consider the Hadiths ALMOST God's word or maybe God's Jr word?

And how do you think the Jewish community in Jerusalem would relate to a Rabbi who treated his 5 year old daughter that way?

Honestly?

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77

fair enough, I agree that they are responsible for not taking action to punish appropriately and they can be blamed for that. Violence against the nation though will not accomplish anything but the death of innocents. I don't have the answers to change thier society for the better except us trying to be a better example of how a society should behave.

Research indicates that even pain of one's loved ones from one's horrific behavior

does not change the behavior of the perpetrator.

For example, an alcoholic can come home nightly and abuse his wife and children horrifically for YEARS and not change a bit.

He typically will NOT CHANGE

[color=6699FF]UNTIL HE CAUSES HIMSELF SUFFICIENT PAIN to seek whatever help it takes to abandon his terrible way of living.

Nothing in my whole career in clinical psychology and sociology convinces me that being a model country will influence a demonized culture to reform.

. . . some things do not leave . . .

--without prayer and fasting

and/or

superior force.

reply to post by FoosM


I believe I heard or read that it was joint effort of Saudi Arabia and Israel. Can't remember where but when you have Saudi hijackers in the air and Israeli operatives on the ground (some of which were dancing in celebration), who are then detained and released without charge, something is certainly fishy. Always has been, always will be, and the truth will not come out until the people overthrow their government and access the secret records within the respective branches of authority.

wow from a pastor giving a $%^& tip to a cleric f ing his own daughter



religion bringing us all closer together.

you know ,


like the nazis did.

reply to post by reeferman


reeferman

This thread will give you more of a background on the theory. Yes, it implicates Israel too but Saudi Arabia cannot be excluded.

I could try to impress you with my moral outrage but I won't. I assure you it's there.
What I can't get over though - past the vicious crime- is how could a body of people elect someone like this as their spiritual authority?

What God are they really worshipping?

reply to post by BO XIAN


I hear you prefectly clear my friend. I understand the position of not wanting to stoop down to a vile human beings level, but the truth of the matter is that evil must be destroyed, and innocent children and people need to be protected. There is no other way. We need to fight fire, with fire. We need to torture them and run their seeds out of this world, period.

There is no compromising with evil. You have to kill and destroy them the very first chance that you get. The pacifists should be silenced until law and order is restored for innocent Women and Children. They can talk all day long about their pipe dreams of humanity united, but most of us understand that some of these creatures just need to be eradicated from the human gene pool. Much like this pig here who tortured and raped his own daughter!

The only solution for this sick and twisted mentally deranged lunatic is to kill him and wipe his seed from this earth in the name of justice and humanity. ~$heopleNation

There's a special place in hell reserved for demons like this. I hope and pray that my faith in an almighty God is well founded and true and this "man" gets the full wrath of God on judgment day. I would say "may God have mercy on his soul" but that soul deserves no mercy of any kind!

God will judge indeed, but I can certainly hope that his judgment is as harsh as possible on ones like this.

Originally posted by SheopleNation
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

I hear you prefectly clear my friend. I understand the position of not wanting to stoop down to a vile human beings level, but the truth of the matter is that evil must be destroyed, and innocent children and people need to be protected. There is no other way. We need to fight fire, with fire. We need to torture them and run their seeds out of this world, period.

There is no compromising with evil. You have to kill and destroy them the very first chance that you get. The pacifists should be silenced until law and order is restored for innocent Women and Children. They can talk all day long about their pipe dreams of humanity united, but most of us understand that some of these creatures just need to be eradicated from the human gene pool. Much like this pig here who tortured and raped his own daughter!

The only solution for this sick and twisted mentally deranged lunatic is to kill him and wipe his seed from this earth in the name of justice and humanity. ~$heopleNation

I have much more in sympathy with your perspective, than not.

However, 30 or so years ago, Phil Zimbardo of the Stanford prison experiment fame . . . said in the intro to his INTRO TO PSYCH text (my paraphrase--pretty close to verbatim):

= = = =

It's not a huge problem if the MONSTERS are OUT THERE. There aren't many of them. We can gang up on them. The problem is much bigger if the problem is within each of us.
= = = =

Which--he felt his prison experiment had indicated it was.

The EXTENSIVE research on the Nuremburg war criminals of WWII was also similarly indicative. Every measure they could take comparing them to the general population turned up the same finding:

They were NO DIFFERENT than the general population. They were, essentially--IDENTICAL to the general population.

This, essentially, is the assertion of Judeo/Christianity's notion of original sin infecting the human race.

While I mostly agree that much that is horrifically demonized to the point of no likely return--throwing away the key or execution is likely the only solution for a secular society to engage in.

However, it is ALSO TRUE, that TO SOME DEGREE,

if we go about ruthlessly exterminating every bit of evil wherever we find it . . . we'll have to destroy all the mirrors . . . or everyone.

“Vengence is mine” sayeth the Lord…

What this man did is beyond words, what the judge is allowing him to get away with is beyond criminal, and what this mother has to live with for the rest of her life is beyond explanation or understanding.

"Lama was a five-year-old half Egyptian, half Saudi girl. Her mother was born in Egypt and immigrated to Saudi over 25 years ago. Her father, sheikh Fayhan Al Ghamdi, was a frequent guest speaker on Islamists channels. Al Ghamdi divorced Lama’s mother and took custody of Lama soon afterwards. In this video he tears up at the plight of orphans as he talks about the religious rewards of adoption."

According to news reports, Al Ghamdi told the judge that Lama was behaving strangely and that he questioned her virginity. He went as far as to have a medical professional check that her virginity was intact. Her mother said in an interview on Ali Al Olayani’s show that she felt that there was something wrong three months before Lama was admitted to the hospital but that her ex-husband would only allow her short telephone conversations.

She begged him to give her the girl but he refused. By the time she finally got to see her, Lama was in the ICU. Her mother described her to Al Olayani; Lama had one of her fingernails removed, the side of her head was smashed and the rest of her body was covered up.

She had to hear from hospital staff and social workers how Lama’s rectum was torn open and that the abuser had attempted to burn it closed. Randa Al Kaleeb, a social worker from the hospital where Lama was, told Al Olayani in a phone interview that Lama’s back was broken as well and that she had been raped “everywhere”.

Rest In Peace Lama

This brings to the surface some of my problems with Islam. I think that an entire people have been misled by a confused person, and you can look throughout history to see the devastation that he has caused. The fact that occurrences like this happen all the time is testament to the morals of Islam, which apparently are quite lax. I know that this is not the issue, but since things like this happen because of Islam, I think I should be allowed to cite some quick theological details regarding why Islam should not even be a religion.

First of all, Muhammed was drawn to Christians and Jews in Mecca, and he studied with them. Then basically he says he has visions from God, or Al Illah (Allah) in Arabic, and he said that everything that he said supersedes both the Bible and the Tanakh. So where Islam disagrees with the religions Islam is based off of, Islam is supposedly the correct religion. Now, the prophet of Islam could not have gotten his insights from God, for fact that he did not even have a basic understanding of Christianity or Judaism.

At one time it is obvious he believed that God or Gabriel, I cannot remember which, actually had intercourse with Mary, thus making Jesus' birth a virgin birth. Then documents show that he fully accepted the virgin birth of Jesus to Mary, but he did not accept that Jesus died on the cross, nor did he accept that Jesus was the Messiah, etc. This little bit of theology right here disproves all of Islam in my opinion, simply because Muhammed obviously did not understand what he was teaching. How is it possible to accept the virgin birth of Jesus, but not the reason for that virgin birth? Obviously anyone who is even vaguely familiar with Christianity will understand why this is a conflict, and how it could never have come from God. It just does not make any sense.

Those who follow Islam want everyone to convert to Islam, and we all know the violence that has come from this. They cannot grasp the fact that so many people throughout history have claimed to have "visions" or whatever that superseded the Bible. And the way that a Jew or a Christian would know if anything this person was saying was true, would be to compare it with what they already know about God. Islam fails this test, even on more levels than I mentioned. People who follow this religion do not know about Christianity or Judaism, and apparently do not know the history of their own prophet, who got his ideas from these religions. If they knew what these religions were all about, they would be more likely to see through the inconsistencies of Islam. It does not matter if you are religious, as I am just saying that because Islam sprung from Christianity and Judaism, it cannot simply abandon those founding ideas.

Some may say Christianity did this with Judaism, but they would be wrong. Christianity makes a smooth transition, with eyewitness evidence and clear logic, to back up what it says. Basically it is a continuation of Judaism, or the next step, and there is not the same type of disconnect that is present with Islam. However, something people fail to realize is that all 3 of these religions intend to serve the same God. There is no disputing that fact. This reply may get removed by the mods, and I can understand why, but I think that most people who are from the West know nothing about Islam at all, and I think this is something they need to hear. Every claim I made can be backed up, so if anyone disagrees with me, message me and I will cite a source. I am not making up theology here.

As usual, the ever-so-righteous ATS Christians flock to this thread in order to 1) preach about how superior their religion is, and 2) with extreme irony, wish for the exact same horrific punishments inflicted upon him, that he inflicted upon that little girl.

This happened because he is a SICK individual. The culture is very sick as well - but these acts are not as commonplace as one might believe, if their only experience of that culture is from horrific stories like this. Most of those horror stories come from unusually hardcore areas, maybe not too unlike Washington Heights in NYC. In this case, the culture just provided an atmosphere of silence around the event. But in the general region, they are mostly just ordinary human beings who, generally speaking, just want to get along with each other in peace. Like you and me.

And even less influential in this act than the culture, is Islamic religion. Believe it or not, there is nothing in Islamic holy texts which in any way justifies what he did. The guy has some very serious hardware issues, and they are probably genetic. A defective scrap which Natural Selection overlooked. Try to leave religion out of it, because it really doesn't belong.

I think all of you would be horrified by learning what some powerful Western (and totally non-Islamic) businessmen/politicians/holymen have done to little children. This, and worse. Read up on your Cathy O'Brien if you don't know what I'm talking about.

And please stop arguing for eye-for-an-eye revenge punishment. That is truly just as insane, barbaric, and stupid as the original act. You're just arguing for everyone to lower the bar. Shame on you all who suggest such a thing.

This pisses me off. We can give a 15 yr old Pakistanis girl a peace prize nominee for standing up for womens rights yet something like this happens, IMO much worse and nobody gives a toss? The world is a sick place and I hope the Saudi nation is wasted. I hate that country, they are a disgrace to humanity. What makes it worse is the parents sit back and allow it, participate in it. Any Arab tried that to my daughters I would sting them by their testicles.

Every damn time. Every time a rich n famous personality gets involved in a child abuse case, he/she's let off for money.

It's the same story all over the world, though the Saudi legal system is a total crock of sh__ IMO.