The Pledge of Allegiance is Brainwashing

Originally posted by WaterBottle

Originally posted by bjax9er
so don't say the pledge if you don't like it.

we all know you hate America.
no need to repeat it again.

It shouldn't be forced on 5 year olds all around the nation. I guess you love brainwashing children.

Have you been in an elementary school recently? It is ALL about brainwashing. The pledge is on the minor end of the spectrum when compared to nonsense like the brainwashing schools do regarding their opinions on politics, evolutionary theory, "weapons", etc. The entire thing is one huge farce of conditioning. Right down to insistence upon vaccinations, presenting anything "government" as being trustworthy and safe, and even the absolute garbage they feed the children.

My wife and I are extremely close to making the home schooling leap with our two little ones.

This may be one of the first topics I've agreed with you on, WB. I don't think we agree on the issue for the same reason, but yeah... I'm not real comfortable with my children pledging anything to what this nation has become... especially since I'm already (forced to) "pledge" my allegiance to this nation every two weeks as I watch them steal more and more from my wallet.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


I agree with you . Schools these days are zombie training centers.

reply to post by WaterBottle


Even if it is brainwashing.....its way way down the list of other brainwashings that are screwing up this country.

Originally posted by bjax9er
And the video you posted is just that. Marxist propaganda.

But your not to notice that Tread. See they think we types are all running on slogans, Rambo movies, NASCAR, gun shows ect with an IQ running a bit higher than an educated ape. When you point out lefty propaganda all you do is get your name on a list and a train ticket out to "summer camp".

Then please move, no one will stop you.

God can mean more than a ghost in the sky. In the Pledge Of Allegiance it means "Unity for all Americans". Putting your hand over your heart is about showing respect for those who died so we can have our freedoms that people like you take for granted.

The ones trying so hard to do all the brainwashing are Liberals like you telling the rest of us what to say, think, and do.

reply to post by WaterBottle


I like your OP though I don't personally have a problem with reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. Patriotism comes in many varieties, dissent being one of them... so contrary to a some posters in this thread I don't think you or your notion are unpatriotic. I do think God should be taken out of it as it was the intention of our fore fathers that church and state be separate. I also think that along with reciting the pledge children should be taught about America... the good, bad and the ugly.

I don't understand the mentality of people who claim to be so proud of this country and claim to love liberty and freedom yet scream at you the 1st chance they get to get out if you don't do things 'our' way.. it's the very epitome of what you describe, blind nationalism.

They seem to forget that God has a broad meaning, meant to embrace more than one religion as well as the fact that we should be careful not to place the word God where people are supposed to promise to uphold any national tenets, simply since some people don't believe in a God.

They also seem to forget or be completely ignorant of the fact that our founding fathers, by deliberate design, vocal and written intention formed a Republic not a Democracy. Our Republic, though democratic (of, for and by the people) is meant to ensure that we are not under the thumb of the majority... that the minority have equal voice.

Perhaps it is 'they' that should stop trying to subvert our nation and traditions.

Originally posted by SilentKoala

Originally posted by smwoop
nah my school stopped us from doing it thanks to people like yourself.

There's nothing wrong with being proud of your nation, even at a young age.

I'll tell you something wrong with it - it's completely illogical. You didn't choose the nation you were born in. Pride should be reserved for the things you actually chose.

You say something interesting here.

Your right. Not many people earned citizenship here. They were simply born into it without any effort...
Personally I think citizenship laws need to be rewritten..citizens must pass a test or something (very fair, requiring something though..be it some sort of service to state, or..something agreeable to most)..this should then be called the citizens pledge, and only citizens of course allowed to vote in any election.

Won't happen of course..but it would be a good start. If I was given a nation and was a founding father, I wouldn't make citizenship a birthright...it would be properly earned.

reply to post by WaterBottle


www.merriam-webster.com...


Definition of BRAINWASHING
1: a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas


Systematic effort to destroy an individual's former loyalties and beliefs and to substitute loyalty to a new ideology or power. It has been used by religious cults as well as by radical political groups. The techniques of brainwashing usually involve isolation from former associates and sources of information; an exacting regimen calling for absolute obedience and humility; strong social pressures and rewards for cooperation; physical and psychological punishments for noncooperation, including social ostracism and criticism, deprivation of food, sleep, and social contacts, bondage, and torture; and constant reinforcement. Its effects are sometimes reversed through deprogramming, which combines confrontation and intensive psychotherapy.


dictionary.reference.com...

brain·wash·ing
noun
1. a method for systematically changing attitudes or altering beliefs, originated in totalitarian countries, especially through the use of torture, drugs, or psychological-stress techniques.
2. any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, especially one based on repetition or confusion: brainwashing by TV commercials.
3. an instance of subjecting or being subjected to such techniques: efforts to halt the brainwashing of captive audiences

en.wikipedia.org...

Brainwashing became a term in 1950's.

Explain how reciting the Pledge of Allegiance fits the definition of brainwashing.

I guess it depends on how big ones brain is, if it can be subject to brainwashing by reciting a pledge for 12 seconds each morning.

Originally posted by brandiwine14
Then please move, no one will stop you.

God can mean more than a ghost in the sky. In the Pledge Of Allegiance it means "Unity for all Americans". Putting your hand over your heart is about showing respect for those who died so we can have our freedoms that people like you take for granted.

The ones trying so hard to do all the brainwashing are Liberals like you telling the rest of us what to say, think, and do.

1) God means ghost in the sky. not unity for all americans...unless americans have suddenly become gods? Even then, the sentence structure makes no sense. God, even the biblical one, doesn't seem like he is much for politics and national interests (unless its Israel for some reason..guy has a thing about that area)

2) No, hand over heart is the first half of the roman salute (used by many nations..roman salute has 2 parts. first part is hand at heart, then raised up (aka, Nazi Germany made the second part famous).

It is a symbolic gesture used during the Pledge of Allegiance in the United States. It is the second gesture used, the original was dropped because it was too similar to the National Socialist German Workers' Party salute used by Adolf Hitler. This original salute was a modification of course from the Roman Empire, where the fist of the right hand was tapped upon the left breast (over the heart) and the arm was shot out stiff at an upward angle with the hand open and fingers pointing straight forward.

The current gesture of placing one's hand over their heart, is actually a modification of the first half of the Roman salute

Going back to the under god bit...I suddenly am considering the pyramid with the eye on top.
Which god may be in question here of course if your one for such contemplations..

As far as liberals telling you what to say and think...actually, isn't the stance here breaking a person away in order to choose what to think and a suggestion that maybe we shouldn't auto-say what the state instructs us to say as children?
Durned liberals makin people think about stuff..why can't they just let the state program us all without all these pesky questions.

The pledge is creepy statist brainwashing.

Didn't know God was a statist also wanna know what Eisenhowers speech has to do with the pledge?

Originally posted by slugger9787
Explain how reciting the Pledge of Allegiance fits the definition of brainwashing.

I guess it depends on how big ones brain is, if it can be subject to brainwashing by reciting a pledge for 12 seconds each morning.

Repetition
a half minute sure...each morning...5 days a week..for years and years on end during the most impressionable years of someones life.

Pretty obvious..but I am less concerned overall with that than say, the tube reinforcing to the same demographics that violence is an awesome way to resolve conflicts (cartoons, games, etc).

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by brandiwine14
Then please move, no one will stop you.

1633526808

As far as liberals telling you what to say and think...actually, isn't the stance here breaking a person away in order to choose what to think and a suggestion that maybe we shouldn't auto-say what the state instructs us to say as children?
Durned liberals makin people think about stuff..why can't they just let the state program us all without all these pesky questions.

No that's not the stance Liberals are taking, maybe it use to be but not anymore and you know this. Otherwise the Liberals would say things like " I dont believe in that, maybe you should ask yourself why you do"? Instead of saying "Brainswash brainwash, no god its a lie, no god it's a lie. Dont do this do that etc etc. Liberals are great when you agree with them but you disagree and get venom spewed down your throat for it.

They are the ones brainwashing and ill be damned if I let them do that to my kids. The Pledge Of Allegiance is important to ANYONE who loves this country and they know and understand the reasons why. No Romans here just a bunch of Americans that love their country. Dont love my country i'll be happy to pack your bags.


The bottom line is this: The United States of America was founded by men who got tired of others telling them how to live, eat, breathe, they got tired of giving up what they earned to an oppressive rule. So they created this great country and gave us the freedoms we have now. My question to you is.... why would you not want to be thankful for one minute a day to our forefathers?

I dont even believe in God if people are so offended by that one small word then dont say it. to me and many many others it represents only unity, why should we not want to be united in our love for our country.

edit on 4-2-2013 by brandiwine14 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by brandiwine14

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by brandiwine14
Then please move, no one will stop you.

1633526808

As far as liberals telling you what to say and think...actually, isn't the stance here breaking a person away in order to choose what to think and a suggestion that maybe we shouldn't auto-say what the state instructs us to say as children?
Durned liberals makin people think about stuff..why can't they just let the state program us all without all these pesky questions.

No that's not the stance Liberals are taking, maybe it use to be but not anymore and you know this. Otherwise the Liberals would say things like " I dont believe in that, maybe you should ask yourself why you do"? Instead of saying "Brainswash brainwash, no god its a lie, no god it's a lie. Dont do this do that etc etc. Liberals are great when you agree with them but you disagree and get venom spewed down your throat for it.

They are the ones brainwashing and ill be damned if I let them do that to my kids. The Pledge Of Allegiance is important to ANYONE who loves this country and they know and understand the reasons why. No Romans here just a bunch of Americans that love their country. Dont love my country i'll be happy to pack your bags.

Actually, you don't get to dictate what liberals are saying about a subject..especially when you have it so wrong.
It is akin to me saying Conservatives demand children must be trained in firearms, forcibly if required, because a few people have said that...(and they have. I participated in a thread about some crappy conservative commune in the works, and one part of their "constitution" was a absolute requirement for all kids to be taught how to fire weapons and hit human sized targets).

Your country...did you purchase the entire country? What makes -this- (will accept "our" also) country great is diversity of thoughts, ideas, opinions, and ideals...a mixing bowl (salad or soup..take your pick). This is the second time that you have decided if someone doesn't share -your- opinion or something, they should leave the country...

Which makes you very much against the whole foundation of this country and its people..

making you the epitome of what actually is anti-American. Hows that for some irony.

The pledge is, and always will be a form of indoctrination. Its practiced in some form on every nation..from pledges, national anthems, etc. This is not open for debate, this is simply fact. What is open for debate is, is patriotic indoctrination a bad thing? Personally I think not. Its important for citizens of any nation to have pride and desire in their own country. Patriotism, competition, etc..all of these things are required for a society to survive amongst other nations with equal patriotism.

The double edged sword though is that patriotism can and has been used as a weapon against other nations and even their own people (see Nazi Germany again and the endless quotes from the Reich about how they use patriotism for their personal gain).

So ya...erm...you really don't know much about liberals. You know maybe one or two people whom tend to go a bit on the absurd side and paint everyone with that brush.
Here is something to chew on
Tim McVeigh was a conservativelibertarian...should I apply the same method as you in considering conservatives?

Originally posted by smwoop
do you live in the US?

If yes: then maybe you should move out and see if you dont agree with it.

If no: then maybe you should move in and see how awesome it is minus corrupt politicians trying to shove crap bills down American's throat.

Obviously you don't travel much do you? Why are Americans always saying how awsome the USA is when most of them have never travelled and have no idea what other countries are like except what they are fed by news propaganda or fairytales?

Yes there are some awsome things about the USA, but there are many awsome things about the UK, Spain, Germany, France, Sweden, South Africa, Italy, Turkey, Israel, UAE, Brazil, Peru, Panama, Japan, China, Thailand, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

Point being that USA is not that special and its funny about how the 'brainwashed' scream about their freedom without realising that many other nations are just as free or even moreso and when someone from within critisises the brainwashing they are told that they should leave! So you have freedom but not allowed to critisise? have I got that right?

reply to post by WaterBottle


Good post, I wasn't aware of the changes, thanks for adding that. I agree whole heatedly, this "pledge" needs to go away in American schools. Our children are not public servants and do not need to swear an oath daily and as has been witnessed in the last month, we certainly are not indivisible although the federal government would like to think we are.

reply to post by WaterBottle


Well when I was in school I was forced to say the pledge with and like everyone else...If I did not I was punished with and like everyone else who did not...

not until late in life did I start to question it all...and today I question anything that I am "forced" to do...

If it was a legitimately justified thing force wouldn't be necessary...if you have to FORCE people to agree with you, kinda says a lot about how legitimate your point of view is...

I'm not forced today to say the pledge or stand for the anthem...(social pressure maybe but not forced) and that's the way I would like to keep it. Even though I still stand for the anthem (out of respect for vets) knowing that I don't have to is good enough.

Originally posted by smwoop
No one is forced to do it, you even admitted it yourself saying you sat out.

Just because you're unpatriotic doesn't mean you have to ruin the pledge for everyone. Some people like to say it because maybe their family has spent years working/sacrificing to get us where we are now. You do know that America is a Christian nation don't you, hence the "Under God" part.

Then maybe their parents should say the pledge with them at home before they go to school.
The jails are full of people who said the pledge everyday in school. Saying the pledge does not make you a good patriot, citizen or person. I am an American who has never said the pledge for religious reasons. That doesn't stop me from loving this country, paying my taxes and obeying the laws. Neither does it prevent me from respecting those who choose to pledge their allegiance. A pledge is a sacred oath. As such, I feel it should be the parents responsibility to teach and lead their own kids in doing this if they feel it is important.

I guess if your going to over analyze everything, then you might want to start with why your a Citizen, of a State, of a Country, that has certain things that make it a Country, of States, Full of Citizens. I mean why dont you just find another country, if its that bad. I can see a lot more things to do besides start a pathetic arguement about the pledge of Allegiance. Start with the actual reason of why they call it "the Pledge of Allegiance"

cool thread, SnF

now i'm a brit, so obvs i am waiting to be told to clear off etc but w/e

i do think that a regular repetition of he pledge of allegiance is a form of brainwashing, just as when i was in uk scouts and had to promise "to do my best to god and the queen (etc etc)" every tuesday was, and the same as singing "god save the queen" (rather than god save the people - the queen has plenty of help without us entreating divine powers lol)

of course it can seem an innocuous thing, but surely thats the point... for me it builds up into the US cult of patriotism, which is just a blinkering system allowing those who wish to dissent against the status quo in anyway to be shouted down and derided without any need for discussion or examination of views etc etc. remember, get 'em when they are young and you can imprint how people think for the rest of their lives. rulers institute these things for a reason.

this is seen on ats all of the time - a US poster makes a statement that is somehow against the US establishment line, or against foreign policy etc etc and out come the "i'm a true patriot and you can just get out of my country" BS, which is so bang full of stupid that it just hurts.

it's a bit like the british national anthem in a way, a way of swearing to and glorifying the estanblishment/PTB without really acknowledging that it's the people of the land that really matter.

thats my 2p's worth