The UFOs are gone!

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by zonetripper2065

 

For one why would a spacecraft need lights, the only reason modern planes have lights is so they don't slam into each other.

Thats only partially true. At plane speeds (hundreds of miles an hour) there is little time to maneuver by "seeing lights". Radar is the controlling factor there, both in the cockpit and on the ground.

Running lights also identify the plane to military jets in case of "international incident or incursion" whatever. And like you said to identify each other in close proximity like for approach, landing and takeoff.

Now why UFO's "need lights" is not readily explainable. I'm not sure if they have lights or emit light. The one I saw was a "blob" of light(s) that hid the object from view...

edit on 3-2-2013 by intrptr because: additional...

I guess I'm a sceptic for those that need a label. But for the life of me, I can't understand why a sceptic would need such a ridiculous argument for proof against space people flying space ships around.
All those "why would they need....whatever" points are silly to me.

My point is, you don't need that argument! There are far better arguments to make your case. Sceptics are way ahead of the game from what I can tell. Here is the only question one need to ask. "why is there such a lack of real evidence with such a widespread phenomenon?" and then sit back and watch all those ad hoc hypotheses fly around.

I think it is worth to point out, that there are numerous instances of UFO encounters, which have NOT been declined by experts, both from the government and private experts in different fields.

Many interesting cases can be read here : ufos.about.com...

Now, it's true that no cases have been provided today, although the Rosswell crash sure seems sketchy, especially when former officers from that event, steps out today and says that they where not true when they addressed the public back then.

We still have to take in mind the great consequences of (if) the government releasing info that we truly shared information with another extra-terrestrial species. It would probably cause mass panic and I believe that a lot of religious individuals would be negatively moved when obtaining this information.

Do we have visitors from space, I dont know. Are we alone in the universe, no. The chances for that outcome is way to small.

BBW, I think that it is worth to mention that the former Skunk Works director of the manufacturer / science facility, Lockheed Martin, did tell on his dead bend that they had access and contact with extra-terrestrials

flexy123
I don't think the aliens ever stooped coming to this planet i believe there hear and always have been..

I think the number of sightings has increased recently, but these are sightings, often with pictures that don’t add much to the case. Sometimes it’s clear that the pictures are lens flares, clouds, or other natural phenomena, and some times the cases are simple hoaxes.

It would be tough to try to compare todays world with that of yesterday. It is so radically different...The climate is so hostile toward honest assessment today, how could one report something honestly in this environment when they know ahead of time that they will be raked across the coals?

The fact is we just don't know what the truth is concerning ET craft all we can do is give our option and my option is there here and there real..peace,sugarcookie1

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
Same as they've ever been, people just aren't as dumb as they used to be.
For one why would a spacecraft need lights, the only reason modern planes have lights is so they don't slam into each other.

edit on 3-2-2013 by zonetripper2065 because: (no reason given)

More importantly, why does this car need so many lights?

this world is a strange enough place to explore such questions as to "why anything"

For instance, why does my kid need an iphone!?

reply to post by flexy123
I think they've only 'gone' in the sense that sightings no longer hold any obvious cultural or social significance. There've been reported sightings as long as we've had recorded history and the late 40s to early '70s flaps and waves were possibly unique in the history of the phenomena.

I was one of over a dozen people to see a decent UFO a few years ago on the south coast of England (early 2000s). At the time it was a 'whooping and cursing' great experience, but was quickly put aside and almost forgotten until around 2007 when I began to look for an explanation or independent report of the sighting. I only mention this anecdote to underline my argument that (whatever the cause) genuine, tough-to-explain sightings are still here.

The scale of sightings has diminished and the reliability of reports is at a sewer-level ebb as people make ridiculous claims on the internet and ruin the study of the subject in its modern context.

Go to the San Luis valley of Southern Colorado and hang out for awhile. Especially Saquache Co.
When the skeptics return forever changed; perhaps we can talk about the UFOs being gone or explainable phenomena. Skeptical words are just words until you make an effort to really try to understand something outside the internet; With real people and places. I just can't take cyber wankers seriously. It's not just about UFOs the phenomenon goes much, much deeper.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

All I have to say, is one of these days the naysayers are going to be wetting their pants. It's pretty evident the majority of these naysayers have done little research on the subject nor cross referenced case studies on the subject. Deep down, denying the possibility of their existence makes them feel secure.

Evidence? Do the research on credible pilot sightings, FAA and upper brass military statements, astronauts, multiple witness sightings, group abductions, cattle mutilations, physical body marks found on abductees, unexplained ancient drawings and artifacts, evidence of abnormal radiation readings, crop circles that are so detailed and massive it would take more than a 12 hour time span to create, not to mention the manpower needed to pull off such a feat, and lets not mention the recovered chemical residue. There's enough out there to get your feet wet.

But than again, no matter how credible these witnesses are, no matter how many witnesses have observed the same phenomenon from different vantage points, no matter how many thousands of people have described the same experience or what these visitors look like, you will still be in denial until the day you experience it for yourself. If there were similar mysterious events witnessed, and they had an earth bound related possibility, your security blanket would drop and you would have no problem accepting earth bound answers to the phenomenon.

Because these events are out of the norm of human possibilities, skeptics will continue to have tunnel vision until the day their view of the world comes crumbling down.

1) Are UFO's visiting us - or

2) Are We visiting us from our one of our own future worldlines?

3) More likely the combination, and we can't forget the old German

Vril/Hanebu UFO's that "escaped to antarctica".....

It's curious how the 1st abductees, Betty and Barney Hill, did describe their UFO

occupants as dressed in "military uniforms" that reminded Barney of "Nazi's".

The UFO's aren't gone. The good videos are.

reply to post by Kandinsky

The scale of sightings has diminished and the reliability of reports is at a sewer-level ebb as people make ridiculous claims on the internet and ruin the study of the subject in its modern context.

Of course the million dollar question is why do they do that? I probably would not have as much desire to dig thru modern reams of material to see if I could find on video today what I saw 35 years ago. I have yet too see anything even approximate it. Like you I am frustrated by the BS.

Doesn't stop me from looking though. I know what I saw. The cliche remark...

and can't prove it either. My best response to the doubters is, when you see one you will know it.

reply to post by ZetaRediculian

"why is there such a lack of real evidence with such a widespread phenomenon?" and then sit back and watch all those ad hoc hypotheses fly around.

One response to that is that they control who sees them. I know that may sound crazy, but from experience with seeing ghosts I can tell you that people in the room don't see it or see something different from their perspective.

My one time experience with seeing a UFO-ish thingy was the same way. The group of people nearby us that also saw this thing steadfastly refused to review the experience with our group and in fact packed up and left rather than talk about it.

That was weird...

They are here, they are real.I have seen them, take MY word for it or dont i COULDNT CARE LESS......
iTS ALL ABOUT PERSONAL PROOFS.....
You might try the Friends of Pescara on You Tube......that seems pretty solid actually with good clear video and all.....

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by zonetripper2065

 

For one why would a spacecraft need lights, the only reason modern planes have lights is so they don't slam into each other.

Thats only partially true. At plane speeds (hundreds of miles an hour) there is little time to maneuver by "seeing lights". Radar is the controlling factor there, both in the cockpit and on the ground.

Running lights also identify the plane to military jets in case of "international incident or incursion" whatever. And like you said to identify each other in close proximity like for approach, landing and takeoff.

Now why UFO's "need lights" is not readily explainable. I'm not sure if they have lights or emit light. The one I saw was a "blob" of light(s) that hid the object from view...

edit on 3-2-2013 by intrptr because: additional...

I guess I'm a sceptic for those that need a label. But for the life of me, I can't understand why a sceptic would need such a ridiculous argument for proof against space people flying space ships around.
All those "why would they need....whatever" points are silly to me.

My point is, you don't need that argument! There are far better arguments to make your case. Sceptics are way ahead of the game from what I can tell. Here is the only question one need to ask. "why is there such a lack of real evidence with such a widespread phenomenon?" and then sit back and watch all those ad hoc hypotheses fly around.

Agreed, but you are talking UFO's in the same vein as sceptic, so that's not quite true, the Cash-Landrum event is all about lights, and where someone got hurt from the effects, pretty much evidential yet that lady died, was never compensated.

Of course it will always appear as though there isn't 'proof' for UFOs to the lazy and the uninformed.

This demand for 'proof' is just a symptom of

1) a lack of information

and

2) an abuse of the concept of proof

A more appropriate set of concepts with which to frame the debate is evidence and justification.

Obviously none of us are in possession of a crashed UFO. That's just stating the obvious. So to demand 'hard' physical evidence at this point is just naive.

But isn't this lack of hard physical evidence actually consistent with the level of technology displayed? On the other hand, you would expect to see secondary physical effects of these craft, and, lo and behold, such effects have been recorded time and time again (radar hits, radiation effects, physiological effects, mental effects including post traumatic stress syndrome, soil imprints). So it's interesting that the nature of the physical evidence at this point is actually consistent with what one would expect with an advanced technology that easily evades capture.

Now back to evidence and justification. People love to demand 'hard' evidence for UFOs, and then claim that if you don't have hard evidence for them, they don't exist.

This is foolish and irrational.

Let me ask you this: How many objects that constitute your world that you know and accept as reality (great white sharks, the bottom of the ocean, Tony Blair) do you have direct physical evidence for? Yet are you going to tell me that great white sharks, the bottom of the ocean and Tony Blair don't exist?

In other words, justification isn't so black and white, is it? As with all of the above examples (and countless others), we can have a set of evidence - none of which is direct empirical evidence - that nonetheless allows us to be entirely justified in the belief in the existence of something.

So just to make this perfectly clear: You don't need direct physical evidence of something in order to be justified in the belief of its existence.

There is enough evidence to justify a belief in the existence of UFOs, roughly defined as aerial craft that exhibit seemingly impossible and highly advanced flight characteristics. All you have to do is to avail yourself of several volumes worth of the historical evidence, and stay away from YouTube (although OrkoJoker's UFO Education videos are certainly worth watching). Stick to the more competent researchers and documents - J. Allen Hynek, James McDonald, Peter Sturrock, Blue Book Special Report #14, etc.

In other words, don't spend a weekend watching YouTube videos and then crown yourself king of UFO skeptics. Trust me, it doesn't make you look good.

And along those same lines, what you see time and time again is a direct correlation between the volume and quality of UFO historical data that one has absorbed and thoroughly analyzed and a greater likelihood to believe that there really is something incredibly fascinating (and *real*) that has been taking place in our skies. J. Allen Hynek is a perfect example.

The only replies I see from the non believes apart from the fence sitters.
Is really, as one poster has pointed out flawlessly, none other than "Ignorance".

What's so hard about doing a little digging for yourselves? The least anyone can do by now, giving the ever increasing reports, is that it is as real as you the individual behind your avatar.

It is just like saying, you don't exist, even if you're actively participating on here, because I don't see you physically...

Peace

Originally posted by sugarcookie1
The fact is we just don't know what the truth is concerning ET craft all we can do is give our option and my option is there here and there real..peace,sugarcookie1

Well,

first we don't even know about "ET craft" since any "serious" UFOlogist knows that the "ET craft" theory is only that, a theory. Yes of course, you are right, WE DON'T KNOW.

But given that UFOs allegedly are observed for decades, oh wait, centuries already, possibly even all the way back to earliest history..isn't it astonishing "we don't know what the truth is". And shouldn't the fact that we STILL don't know anything make you think?

You know, today, even in remote villages in Afghanistan or Sri Lanka people have cell phones, videos and whatever happens can traverse the globe withing minutes. When a donkey takes a dump somewhere in India, 5 minutes later the entire world could witness it. This is the world we live in.

And the number of "good" UFO cases ...is in strong contrast to this fact...people are still referring to very few cases like Belgium Wave, O'Hare, Rendlesham even....so..let's take them away (let's just assume there is good explanations for those)..what do we have left? Logic says there should be more and more good cases now..but its getting less and less and even the formerly "good ones" are starting to look shaky.

They are not gone. It's just thousands of people make false reports either on purpose, or because they mistaken something normal in the sky for a UFO for lack of knowing and are quick to judge. Just because so many people flood the outlet with so many false reports doesn't mean they are not real. For every maybe 2000 reports maybe 1 or 2 of them are actual sightings unfortunately. But mark my word, they are real, they are there, and always have been.

reply to post by Brighter

Of course it will always appear as though there isn't 'proof' for UFOs to the lazy and the uninformed.

This demand for 'proof' is just a symptom of

1) a lack of information

and

2) an abuse of the concept of proof

I think that this might go both ways. "Lazy uninformed" people may be the reason why so many things get mistaken for UFO's and why so many false stories circulate around and are taken as the truth.

I don't consider myself an "expert" but I also don't consider myself "uninformed". Maybe i'm just lazy, but I can't get to the "Alien flying spaceships around" part. I don't think its due to denial because I would like it to be true and even thought that way for a time as was getting "informed". Perhaps I am too informed.

One thing I notice is the lack of expertise in these parts when it comes to how things are percieved. Who is that subject matter expert? Undeniably, this phenomenon is largely based soley on accounts of visual perception at the time of the event. Also there is a lack of quality photos or video where we can agree that there is a "solid metalic object under intelligent control." We have to rely on perceptual information as recounted from memory. Both memory and visual perception are faulty. Our brains can trick us into thinking we see things that are not really there. This happens to me every night.

I am not saying by any stretch that these are all hallucinations and should all be disimissed. I'm not even saying that even one of these cases is due to that. I just don't know. I think its possible. I have not been informed by anyone that I would consider an expert that this is not possible.

I know of the radar hit cases and that Japan fllight over Alaska. How can I make that leap? I can't. Is it something else? I don't know. But what knowledge am I missing that will take me to the point of its "something under intellegent control not from earth" ?

Hi ATS - Please read?

They could be secret military craft, or they could be ET craft, OR it could be a mixture of both, as in government built their own from ET technology shared with them by the ETs, and the ETs are also still visiting us with these crafts.


Or they are not ETs but spiritual beings or interdimensional beings. These are also very plausible explanations.

The abductions of people could be military or government experiments, or they could also be experiments from ETs or spiritual beings. There are too many eerily similar reports throughout history to deny this. People who are not even related to each other, who did not know these things even happened before to others before it happened to them one day.

But the fact of the matter is UFOs are indeed real, however UFOs (are obviously not airplanes, weather balloons, or atmospheric anomalies) are not anything known to us at this time. Someone out there might know and are not telling us what they are, but we, as people of nations, are none of us privy to this information right now.

No use getting frustrated trying to prove it. They will not be accepted as real until a) somebody from high up discloses it nationally or internationally on the media to everybody or b) If they are ETs or interdimensional beings and not government projects, they eventually show themselves to "everybody" publicly, and deliberately on a mass scale to make themselves known and explain to us who or what they are, what they are doing, and why they are here. They have shown themselves to people, but it's not going to matter until everybody has witnessed it. Only then will we all believe and accept that they are real.

Until these things happen, if they do, we will always have this constant battle/debate of divided believers and disbelievers.

I wish I knew what they were. I've gone through it over and over so many times over the years as to what they could be, even considering every rational explanation that they are something common in every day life and that I may have perceived these "normal occurrences" some as something extraordinary and out-of-this world, like when people think they see things on mars, but it's really just a rock - this is not the case. As always you are left to make up your own mind, but I want to tell you that after so much thinking, so many considerations, the possibilities I posted above seem to be the only plausible explanations as to what they could be, because I know for sure that they sure as hell aren't airplanes, weather balloons, satellites, stars, comets, asteroids, helicopters, atmospheric anomalies from gases etc. in the atmosphere, missiles, rockets etc. and they are not a figment of ones imagination blowing itself out of proportion.

These things are seen by your every day people, from all walks of life, some who've never even looked into UFO sightings before and never even care about them or payed any attention. From a 12 year old boy in a cornfield in England, to highly respected Airforce personal out on routine reconnaissance not expecting to see anything out of the ordinary, to a house mom driving in a car with her kids one day and witnessing one.

reply to post by DaTroof

UFOs never existed

Really ?
Do you mean to say that there is no life beyond planet Earth ?

Good points! And exactly. I have evidence, x y and z also have evidence, but it comes in the form of personal experience and I'm afraid that's totally non-transferable.

Stop wanting proof from the internet and start asking it from the universe, and you may be surprised at what you get given.

Interesting thread though. It seems the "high ranking" cases have slowed down. But things still happen every year that shows the interplay between humans and the phenomena is still there and still strong.