My Catholic Bible tells me....the vatican is the great harlot?

reply to post by Belcastro

the footnotes say rome repeatedly not just once

for example it says for 16,9 ; The Great city: Rome and the Empire.

and for 17,2 : intercourse...harlotry:see the note on 14,4. The pagan kings subject to Rome adopted the cult of the emperor.

The footnotes are the interpretations of the persons who compiled that version. Sometimes they too have an agenda or are just plain wrong. It isn't necessarily the truth.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Belcastro

 

the footnotes say rome repeatedly not just once

for example it says for 16,9 ; The Great city: Rome and the Empire.

and for 17,2 : intercourse...harlotry:see the note on 14,4. The pagan kings subject to Rome adopted the cult of the emperor.

The footnotes are the interpretations of the persons who compiled that version. Sometimes they too have an agenda or are just plain wrong. It isn't necessarily the truth.

if they have an agenda then there must be some kind of conspiracy here.
if they're just plain wrong i dont know why they would be confident enough to put that as their interpretation

my bible says "For more than a quarter of a century, members of the Catholic Biblical Association of America, sponsored by the Bishop's Committee of the confraternity of Christian Doctrine, have labored to create this new translation of the scriptures from the original languages or from the oldest extant form in which the texts exist.
In doing so, the translators have carried out the Directive of our predecessor, pius XII, in his famous Encyclical Divino afflante spirtu, and the decree of the second vatican coulcil(Dei Verbum), which prescribed that "Up-to-date and approprate translations to be made in the various languages, by preference from the original texts of the sacred books," and that "With the aproval of Church authority, these translations may be produced in cooperation with our separated brethren" so that "all Christians may be able to use them."

it says that on the first page.

reply to post by Belcastro


Found a Catholic website explaining the whore....


www.catholicbible101.com...

They make some good points on as to why the Vatican is not the whore...

The Vatican does not sit on one of the 7 hills of Rome, which are Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, and Viminal Hill. Vatican Hill sits across the Tiber River from ancient Rome, and was a crucifixion site

For the record, Jerusalem also sits on 7 hills, namely, Scopus, Nob, Mount of Corruption, Old Mount Zion, Ophel, Rock, and New Mount Zion.

Why don't you check it out.

reply to post by Belcastro


Another clue on as to why Jerusalem is the whore....


Their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified
-Revelations 11:8

Originally posted by Belcastro
in Revelations 17,18 it says;
The Woman whom you saw represents the great city that has sovereignty over the earth.

Along those lines:
It's been said in another thread thatThe Pope owns all the world according to the papacy and its written claims.

Since the Pope is an office or a position (as opposed to it being just a person) than it's not the person who "owns all the world" but the office of the pope, in contract law this is a.k.a. acting agent of the Vatican. All of our treaties in all the modern world revolve around that claim (if I'm interpreting things correctly), one treaty is legal because of another parent treaty which supposedly gave it legal precedence.

So yes, I think you may be right, the Vatican may indeed have convinced almost everyone at the highest deepest levels of global politics, that they hold sovereign reign over the world. I have read that they claim veto power over all laws of the United states, and the UN, and all other nations.

reply to post by Belcastro


Even the elect shall be decieved.... The smoke of satan has entered the vatican.... Michael the archangel prayer.... Pope pius the 3rd?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


i know you keep saying this; that jerusalem is the woman of revelations.
if jerusalem was the woman of revelations why would the vatican want to do a multi-religious store/temple
like happy1 said earlier.

they also called for a one-world government.

i just dont understand why they would aprove of the "Catholic interpretations." in my footnotes.

either that or israel and the vatican are working together somehow.
who knows.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Good point.

reply to post by NJoyZ

Along those lines:
It's been said in another thread thatThe Pope owns all the world according to the papacy and its written claims.

Since the Pope is an office or a position (as opposed to it being just a person) than it's not the person who "owns all the world" but the office of the pope, aka the Vatican. All of our treaties in all the modern world revolve around that claim (if I'm interpreting things correctly), one treaty is legal because of another parent treaty which supposedly gave it legal precedence.

So yes, I think you may be right, the Vatican may indeed have convinced almost everyone at the highest deepest levels of global politics, that they hold sovereign reign over the world. I have read that they claim veto power over all laws of the United states, and the UN, and all other nations.

You are neglecting whats in the Bible and going over non-biblical speculations and conspiracies.

The Bible clearly tells us that only Jerusalem has the blood of the saints.... just like the whore.
Jesus himself accuses Jerusalem of being killers of prophets and saints.
God Himself calls Jerusalem a whore.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Belcastro

 

Another clue on as to why Jerusalem is the whore....


Their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified
-Revelations 11:8

and the footnote interpretation in my bible says 11,8;
The Great city:this expression is used constantly in rV for Babylon, i.e. Rome
sodom and egypt:symbols of immorality~and oppresion of gods people.
where indeed their lord was crucified: not the geographic location but the symbolic Jerusalem that rejects god and his witnesses, i.e. Rome called babylon in chs 16-18; see the note on 17,9 and introduction.


as well as you say the vatican is a crucifixion site.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You are completely leaving out the fact that the catholic church does not believe that revelations is for the future - they keep on saying that it is history based on the past, and that it has happened already.

reply to post by Belcastro


And your bible would be correct in that regard....

The Bible says, the Beast is a religious and political system

Revelation 17:3, "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."
In prophecy, a woman is defined as a church...

Jeremiah 6:2 says, "I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman."
We also understand the Church of Jesus Christ is considered to be the "Bride of Christ" because of many areas of Scriptures that describe her as such. It is also commonly understood that prophecy defines a beast to be a nation.

Daniel 7:17, "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth."
Daniel 7:23, "Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces."
source

Considering that the bible uses the symbolism of a women to represent a church (a pure women who's offspring keep the commandments of God in Revelation 12 is contrasted with the 'whore of Babylon' ...a church that has unclean doctrine not from God and doesn't follow God's commandments)

Here are some historical quotes likely the Papacy to Babylonian (pagan) practices

Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the "temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, Holidays, and seasons of devotion, processions, blessings of the fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests, munks and nuns), images, and statues... are all of PAGAN ORIGIN." -The Development of the Christian Religion Cardinal Newman p.359

The penetration of the religion of Babylon became so general and well known that Rome was called the "New Babylon." -Faith of our fathers 1917 ed. Cardinal Gibbons, p. 106

"Confiding then in the power of Christianity to resist the infection of evil, and to transmute the instruments and appendages of demon worship to an evangelical use... the rulers of the church from early times were prepared should occasion arise, to adopt, or imitate, or sanction the existing rites and customs of the populace." -Development of Christian Doctrine, Cardinal Newman. p. 372

Cardinal Newman lists many examples of things of "pagan origin" which the papacy brought into the church "in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen: "in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen:" "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; holy water; asylums [hermitages, monasteries and convents]; [pagan] holy-days, processions, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images, . . . and the Kyrie Eleison."--Cardinal J. H. Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, 1920 edition, p.373 [Roman Catholic].

"The [Catholic] Church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, temple of all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter and made it the feast we celebrate during this season . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom . . . The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . Hence the Church would seem to say, 'Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus"--William L. Gildea, "Paschale Gaudium," in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809 [A Roman Catholic weekly].

"in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen:" "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; holy water; asylums [hermitages, monasteries and convents]; [pagan] holy-days, processions, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images, . . . and the Kyrie Eleison."--J. H. Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, 1920 edition, p.373 [Roman Catholic].

"The mighty Catholic Church was little more then the Roman Empire baptized."-- A. C, Flick, The Rise of the Mediaeval Church, 1909 edition, p. 148. From ancient Babylon came the cult of the virgin mother-goddess, who was worshiped as the highest of gods--see S. H. Langdon, Semitic Mythology, 1931 edition. This worship was taken over as Mary-worship by Rome. Heathen sun-worship on Sunday was likewise adopted by the Roman apostasy.
source

There are plenty more states from that source site that I left out.

reply to post by Happy1


The catholic church does not believe that revelations is the end=times. They would agrue that the book of Daniel does not talk about the end-times, and that we are not in the "end times".

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

You are completely leaving out the fact that the catholic church does not believe that revelations is for the future - they keep on saying that it is history based on the past, and that it has happened already.

i was raised in a catholic family but i dont like catholic or the idea of a trinity.
i dont know if revelations is about the past, the future, or BOTH.

its as i say "History repeats itself but truth is we can change the future."

"for us physicists believe the seperation of past, present, and future is an illusion, although a convincing one."
-Albert einstein.

Either way einstein basically tells us that the future has already happened in some way regardless.

reply to post by Belcastro

and the footnote interpretation in my bible says 11,8;
The Great city:this expression is used constantly in rV for Babylon, i.e. Rome
sodom and egypt:symbols of immorality~and oppresion of gods people.

Yup. The people who wrote the bible you are talking about definitely had a bone to pick with the catholics.

where indeed their lord was crucified: not the geographic location but the symbolic Jerusalem that rejects god and his witnesses, i.e. Rome called babylon in chs 16-18; see the note on 17,9 and introduction.

Notice how they arbitrarily state that the place of their "Lords" crucifixion was not the geographic location but rather a "symbolic" Jerusalem. How did they reach that conclusion?

You got to learn to read between the lines. Some people throw around the word "symbolic" to force what they want out of verses. Just because its in the footnotes of a printed book doesn't mean its the truth.

Either way, its clear that the city where their Lord was "crucified" was near Jerusalem and NOT Rome.

reply to post by Happy1

You are completely leaving out the fact that the catholic church does not believe that revelations is for the future - they keep on saying that it is history based on the past, and that it has happened already.

That is their take on the book of revelations.

It has no bearing on the facts that -
Jesus, who Christians call the "Lord"....was crucified in Jerusalem, NOT Rome.
Jerusalem, NOT Rome is accused of having the blood of saints.... the same crime that the whore is accused of.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


It's common knowledge that the Harlot or Whore is a religious system.

Some Biblical Characteristics of the Anti-christ/Whore of Babylon/Beast (of the Sea)/Little Horn (of Daniel 7)
Destroys three nations after Romes fall

Daniel 7:24, "And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings."

The Alamannis which is now called Germany
The Visigoths which is now called Spain
The Franks which is now called France
The Sueves which is now called Portugal
The Burgundians which is now called Switzerland
The Anglo Saxons which is now called England
The Lombards which is now called Italy
The Ostrogoths
The Vandal
The Herulis

The three divisions which were plucked up where the Heruli in 493 the vandals and 534 and the Ostrogoths in 538. Justinian, the emperor, who we see was at Constantinople, working through the general Belisarius, was the power that overthrough the three kingdoms represented by the three horns, and the reason for their overthrow with their adherence to Arianism in opposition to the orthodox Catholic faith." - the book of Daniel, page 109

Catholic emperors of the eastern empire found ways to help the pope by eliminating three of the Arian tribes. (These "Arian type" nations would not agree with the popes plans) The Catholic emperor Zeno (474-491) arranged a treaty with the Ostrogoths in 487 which resulted in the eradication of the kingdom of the Arian Heruls in 492. And the catholic emperor Justinian (527-565) exterminated the Arian Vandals in 534 and signifcally broke the power of the Arian Ostrogoths in 538. Thus were Daniels three horns - The Heruls, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths - "plucked up by the roots." -C. Mervyn Maxwell, God Cares Vol. 1, p. 129

------------
Reigns for 1260 prophetic days

Daniel 7:25, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

Revelation 12:6, "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

Revelation 13:5, "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."

- A Jewish year is 360 days made up of 12 30 day months.
- time = 1 year, times = 2 years,and the dividing of time = 6 months or in total 3.5 prophetic years (which equals 42 months or 1260 days) or 1260 literal years.

"Vigilius...ascended the papal chair (538 A.D.) under the military protection of Belisarius." History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, p. 327

1260 years later (the Papacy receives its mortal wound...its political power taken away and thus no longer a kingdom...symbolically killing the beast)

"In 1798 General Berthier made his entrance into Rome, abolished the papal government, and established a secular one." -Encyclopedia Britannica 1941 edition

The wound was healed in 1929 when Mussolini granted the papacy back its power and papal states again.

source

The Roman question tonight was a thing of the past, and the Vatican was at peace with Italy... In affixing the autographs to the memorable document healing the wound of many years, extreme cordiality was displayed on both sides"
-The San Francisco Chronicle. Feb. 11, 1929

Rome, June 7.--From 11 o' clock this morning there was another sovereign independent State in the world. At that time Premier Mussolini, as Italian Foreign Minister representing King Victor Emmanuel--the first Italian Premier ever to cross the threshold of the Vatican--exchanged with Cardinal Gasparri, Papal Secretary of State, representing Pope Pius XI, ratifications of the treaties signed at the Lateran Palace on Feb. 11. By that simple act the sovereign independent State of Vatican City came into existence.
-New York Times July 7, 1929

The Beast that was: The Roman church began in 538ad and continued until Napoleon sent in General Berthier in 1798ad (1260 days/year or 42 'months' prophecy fulfilled)
...and is not: From 1798ad until the signing of the Lateran treaty in 1929 the Roman Church/state was non-existent.
...yet is: From 1929 to present the Roman Church has been a church & state.

Title: 219 - The Wine of Babylon
Author: Walter J. Veith
Description: The Bible speaks about an end-time Babylon that would lead the whole world astray. The doctrines for this end-time power can be found in ancient Babylon. In this video, the ancient religion of Babylon and its origins are traced through historic time to the very time in which we live. It is clearly revealed how this ancient religion is alive and well in religious systems of our day, dressed in a garb to suitability camoflauge it from the eyes of the casual observer.


Title: 220 - A Woman Rides the Beast
Author: Walter J. Veith
Description: Is an expose of Revelation 17 which describes a woman controlling a coalition of powers. The woman has the attributes of the mystery religion of Babylon, and entices the world to follow her precepts. A thorough exegesis is presented comparing the general views on this chapter with the realities of our present day. The chapter sets the stage for the final events in the conflict between good and evil.

reply to post by Belcastro


Like I said, I was raised in a catholic family also. But I came to question many things the church was doing and saying...... Especially when the pope said you had to pray to Mary to be saved - that she was the co-redemtrieux - I'm sure she was a nice person, but to me this is sacriledge -- I do believe in the trinity, but not to praying to humans for redemption - and the fact that the pope is "celebrating" with jews, islams, and other "none christian" voodoo tribes in africa, just makes me sick.

I am christian. I believe that Jesus was part-human, part-God, and that God made us, and knows every single one of us, and that he sent Jesus to teach us how to live and how to treat eachother.

I'm not God, or could ever hope to become God, and I'm sure the people who aren't "christian" will be known and cared for by God who made them and will be saved, or not saved, by His infinite widsom = and I'm not one to judge anyone ==

But I will judge the catholic church on my knowing what they have done in a loving God's name for their own monetary riches and political power.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 Everything that happens in this world happens at the time God chooses. He sets the time for birth and the time for death, the time for planting and the time for pulling up, the time for killing and the time for healing, the time for tearing down and the time for building. He sets the time for sorrow and the time for joy, the time for mourning and the time for dancing, the time for making love and the time for not making love, the time for kissing and the time for not kissing. He sets the time for finding and the time for losing, the time for saving and the time for throwing away, the time for tearing and the time for mending,
the time for silence and the time for talk. He sets the time for love and the time for hate, the time for war and the time for peace. (GNT)

Psalm 84:10-12 Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. For the Lord God is a sun and shield; the Lord bestows favor and honor; no good thing does he withhold from those whose walk is blameless. Lord Almighty, blessed is the one who trusts in you. (GNT)

'In the midst of the storm reach out God who calms the tempestuous sea and gives you peace.'

Psalm 84:10-12 Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. For the Lord God is a sun and shield; the Lord bestows favor and honor; no good thing does he withhold from those whose walk is blameless. Lord Almighty, blessed is the one who trusts in you. (GNT)