Bush Says - Christians and Muslims Worship Same God

Machine
President Bush did not invade Iraq for religious reasons. He is not on a crusade to wipe out the infidels. Why does the left always try to bring religion into it? I�m a Christian and I have no desire to rid the world of Muslims. President Bush is a Christian and nothing he has done has shown him to be someone who wants to kill Muslims. If his motivation for invading Iraq was simply to kill Muslims he could have gone about it in a much simpler way. Just fire off some ICBM�s and turn the country into a glow-in-the-dark glass parking lot.

jmilici's response to my above listed quote
That sounds like a good and smart idea. Lets just lob som nuke's and blow the h33l out of them. That is the answer. War War War, Kill Kill Kill. Is that what every one thinks about. Come on know. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. A much simpler way. If that is the case instead of trying to work through my differences with a co-worker I'm having trouble with, maybe I will just go over to him while his back is turned and crack him over the head. That will solve all our problems. H33l, when he's down I'll just kick him in the teeth. Why not, right?

You obviously didn�t comprehend what I wrote. Read it again. What part of my quote did you take it to mean that I wanted to nuke anyone?

Machine
President Bush is either ignorant of Christian teachings or he was being politically correct. I hope for his sake it was the former. The god of the Koran is not the God of the Bible. The Muslim people worship a false god.

no_fear007
ur a moron. u know nothing of the Muslim religion. Muslims believe in Jesus and Moses, they just call them Isa and Musa. Also, it is in the Quran that the Bible is one of the Holy Books. It is one of the 6 basic rules of Islam to believe in all Prophets, including Isa (Jesus), Musa (Moses) and Muhammad and the Holy books including the Injeel (in English known as Bible).

so please go shoot urself.

You also obviously didn�t comprehend what I wrote. Read it again. I didn�t say that the Koran doesn�t mention Jesus. I said that the God of the Koran is not my God or the God of the Bible. Read your own words. The Koran only states that Jesus was a prophet but he was far more. He was and is God. The Bible also teaches that God is eternally existent in three persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The three are one and the one is three. It�s something the human mind cannot fully comprehend because we are limited in our perceptions. We live in four dimensions of time and space but God is not limited to our dimensional confinements. He is much greater than anything our simple and limited minds can comprehend.

Mixing the Holy Bible with the Koran is like trying to mix oil and water. They are two completely different religions. Why do you think Muslims and Christians are always killing each other? Why do you think that Christians are deemed second-class citizens in Muslim run countries? It�s not because we share the same god I can tell you that much! Again I will say it, I do not worship the God of the Koran he means nothing to me. I worship the God of the Holy Bible and deny with all my heart, mind and soul that Muhammad was a prophet of God. He was an evil man who laid the foundations for a false religion.

I love how people miss over Amadeus's points...

Islamic peoples convey that the God of Moses, YAHWEH, and the God of Abraham, ELOHIM, and the God of Jesus are all but the same as thier God, ALLAH. Christians, in this day and age, postulating that YAHWEH is their God, is as silly as Muslims postulating that ELOHIM is their God, no ?

Christians cannot come to terms with thier own God, Jews cannot come to terms with thier own God, and surely, Muslims cannot come to terms with thier Gods...

Deep

What Bush means with "Christians" is "satanists". So translated he is right - an example from today

Pim Fortuyn was one of the last to refuse the mark in Europe, as it is explained in my comments to this article "Our worst fears: Vote Tampering", from

16.Sep.2004 .
portland.indymedia.org...

He was murdered in 2002, just before the national elections, after having received 35% of the votes in the first election he participated, getting the most votes in Rotterdam.

Today Theo Van Gogh, the director of a film about women reduced to slavery in Islam, was murdered in Amsterdam.
Theo Van Gogh was finishing a film about freedom fighter Pim Fortuyn.

Amadeus never really had a point in regards to Jesus aside from his speculation that he preached as truth, when it was never written in ANY documents. Clearly you were too gulible and believed his bull.

Originally posted by Machine

Machine
President Bush did not invade Iraq for religious reasons. He is not on a crusade to wipe out the infidels. Why does the left always try to bring religion into it? I�m a Christian and I have no desire to rid the world of Muslims. President Bush is a Christian and nothing he has done has shown him to be someone who wants to kill Muslims. If his motivation for invading Iraq was simply to kill Muslims he could have gone about it in a much simpler way. Just fire off some ICBM�s and turn the country into a glow-in-the-dark glass parking lot.

jmilici's response to my above listed quote
That sounds like a good and smart idea. Lets just lob som nuke's and blow the h33l out of them. That is the answer. War War War, Kill Kill Kill. Is that what every one thinks about. Come on know. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. A much simpler way. If that is the case instead of trying to work through my differences with a co-worker I'm having trouble with, maybe I will just go over to him while his back is turned and crack him over the head. That will solve all our problems. H33l, when he's down I'll just kick him in the teeth. Why not, right?

You obviously didn�t comprehend what I wrote. Read it again. What part of my quote did you take it to mean that I wanted to nuke anyone?

Machine
President Bush is either ignorant of Christian teachings or he was being politically correct. I hope for his sake it was the former. The god of the Koran is not the God of the Bible. The Muslim people worship a false god.

no_fear007
ur a moron. u know nothing of the Muslim religion. Muslims believe in Jesus and Moses, they just call them Isa and Musa. Also, it is in the Quran that the Bible is one of the Holy Books. It is one of the 6 basic rules of Islam to believe in all Prophets, including Isa (Jesus), Musa (Moses) and Muhammad and the Holy books including the Injeel (in English known as Bible).

so please go shoot urself.

You also obviously didn�t comprehend what I wrote. Read it again. I didn�t say that the Koran doesn�t mention Jesus. I said that the God of the Koran is not my God or the God of the Bible. Read your own words. The Koran only states that Jesus was a prophet but he was far more. He was and is God. The Bible also teaches that God is eternally existent in three persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The three are one and the one is three. It�s something the human mind cannot fully comprehend because we are limited in our perceptions. We live in four dimensions of time and space but God is not limited to our dimensional confinements. He is much greater than anything our simple and limited minds can comprehend.

Mixing the Holy Bible with the Koran is like trying to mix oil and water. They are two completely different religions. Why do you think Muslims and Christians are always killing each other? Why do you think that Christians are deemed second-class citizens in Muslim run countries? It�s not because we share the same god I can tell you that much! Again I will say it, I do not worship the God of the Koran he means nothing to me. I worship the God of the Holy Bible and deny with all my heart, mind and soul that Muhammad was a prophet of God. He was an evil man who laid the foundations for a false religion.

Ok buddy, i was with you throughout that post but that last sentence wasnt very pleasent. I do not want to argue any more on this topic, but i would appreciate if you took those words back, as Muhammad is a very huge personality in my religion. If you disagree with me, thats fine, but saying something like that is childish. did I ever call ur 'Trinity' god theory stupid or anything? I could have said so much that would have made your blood boil, something like the Christians have changed the Bible to suit themselves and to allow themselves to sin and that infact the BASIC Christian religion according to the ORIGINAL Bible states that Jesus was only a Prophet of Allah. Makes you mad doesnt it? well ur last sentence made me mad as well, ill take back all i said if you take back what you said about Muhammad. This goes to ALL of you. the night I wrote all that i wrote on this forum i realised that none of you would understand what I'm saying just as I don't completely understand what you are talking about. So why not just tell people about your religion and not make any assumptions about theirs? I'm sorry if i have offended anyone on this forum but some of the posts really made me go crazy when i saw people talking sh*t bout my religion when they knew NOTHING about it. Ive been following this religion for 20 years and I cant claim that i know all about it, so who the hell r u all to say that my religion is wrong?

Originally posted by MattMarriott
Today Theo Van Gogh, the director of a film about women reduced to slavery in Islam, was murdered in Amsterdam.
Theo Van Gogh was finishing a film about freedom fighter Pim Fortuyn.

I strongly disagree with the above post. Women get much more respect in Islam than they do in Christianity. Consider the pornography industry and the degradation that women are regularly put through.


EDITED: Excessive cursing.

[edit on 4-11-2004 by Kano]

Originally posted by Netchicken
Thankyou no_fear for the typical knuckle dragging response that stops me from wasting more time in this forum.

Do you even understand what you are saying?

This makes the Muslim believers of the 'New Testament'

I think that even the Muslims would be offended by this piece of incoherent nonsence. In no way does it mean anthing like you are attempting to say. They believe in the Old Testamant, and a distorted version of that ONLY. They believe that the new Testamanet is a corruption of what it's meant to be (nice Islamic indoctrination that stops them from examining it)

Also if you are unable to comprehend the analogy of the computer programming I was making its probably better that you just don't say anything rather than display your inability in your post. If you would like me to tell you what I meant by it in words with less syllables then just ask.

Originally posted by no_fear007


ok buddy. lemme tell u something. Jesus came Before Muhammad. This is why the Christian calender is at 2004 while the Muslim calender is at the year 1425. This makes the Muslim believers of the 'New Testament'. secondly, it is moronic to compare a thing like computer programming to how Godly things. Another thing, the only reason the Christians think that belief in Jesus is enough to assure them a spot in heaven and actions are not important is because they do not want to bring religion to their practical life. Muslims make everything else part of their religion while Christians make religion part of everything else. know what i mean? to Christians, religion is just another thing they have to do like going to work every morning. they just like to believe that belief in jesus will excuse them so they can have all the fun that they want in this life without any fear of any consequences on the Last Day. Muslims on the other hand make everything else adjust to their religion. It's not like a job for them, it's like breathing, something you can't stop doing no matter what or the consequences will not be very likeable.

PS: no offense intended, i was just trying to shut this moron up.

what i meant by saying that the Muslims are believers of the New Testaments was that, Because the Islamic religion is relatively NEWER than christianity, the testament we believe in is the newer one. So YOU believe in the OLDER one. Get my point?

no_fear007

I will not take back what I said because I believe it with all my heart. Muhammad is not a prophet of God he was a liar and a false prophet. If you want to put your faith in him you�re free to do so but as for me and my house, �we shall serve the Lord�.

Throwing a verbal tantrum will not impress me in any way. I stand by what I said. Do you have any idea how many times a day I�m insulted, cussed at, ridiculed, and my God blasphemed while I post online? Does it bother me, of course it does but I maintain my composure and continue to defend my positions in a reasoned manner. The world is filled with people who don�t believe the things that I believe. They attack my God, my faith and my sanity. You better get use to people not agreeing with you it�s a big world out there.

Aight, this is one of those posts that makes me mad. so if u really dont want to smash ur computer to bits, dont read it. Aight you son of a b*tch. what the f*ck ur ur f*ckin problem? what the f*ck do you know about Islam? in Islam women have WAY MORE respect that in christianity. in Islam, no women are sluts, and they're not machines to have fun with when ur f*kin drunk. Aight? you f*ckin christians, or should i say satanists, made them that way. SO dont ever say we don't respect women nuff. ONE movie was made about women being slaves in Islam, how many million movies have been made of your f*kin christian western society turning women into whores even when they didnt want to. In Islam, women are supposed to cover their body parts, as are men, aight? thats not slavery. NO descrimination is allowed in Islam. Islam was the FIRST religion to give EVERYBODY equal rights, Blacks, Arabs, Whites, Women etc. I dont nkow who the f*kin van dutch guy ur talkin about, but surely, he had no f*kin clue what Islam was. Now go suck on ur Pig's dick and perform ur f*kin satanic ritual.

Buddhism and many schools of Greco philosophy gave creedence to equality*

Also, this site deplores "AD HOMINEM" remarks, i think you need to chide your subjective tounge and learn to take productive criticism.

I'm quite sure you'll be warned, if not banned..

Deep

Originally posted by paperclip

Originally posted by deeprivergal

I don't think this makes any sense. Bin Landen is said to pray to a "false god", however Bin Laden prays to the same god that other muslims pray to, the one revealed in the Quran by Muhammad the so called Prophet

The Muslims deny Jesus Christ, and it is in the Islamic theology to oppose and kill the ones who believe in the Lord, thus they cannot possibly be worshipping Him, but a false god.

Just because Bin Laden has a muslim name and says he prays to God, doesn't mean his version of religion is the right one. I am amazed at how many westerners blindly believe the words of mass murderer "Bin Laden says muslims should kill, so that must be the truth", "bin laden says that Qur'an says that americans are infidels and should be punished, he must be telling the truth" and so on. Educated people in the western countries actually BELIEVE him. That is insane.

Timothy McWeigh prayed to Jesus. Does that make all christians evil or Jesus a false prophet?

Muslims do not deny Jesus, they accept him as a prophet. Muslim deny the Nicean Creed dogma, but not Jesus himself.
As I have stated many times before on this board, murder is a sin, Muslims are not trained to kill everybody else, that is just propaganda from morons like Jerry Falwell and Bin Laden. WHY do people keep believing them is beyond my understanding *shakes head*


Amazingly, Bush is right, we all do believe in same God, but the way we practice religion is different.

You of course are Wrong ANd so is the president.

The Quran says the Christians are ifidels and disbelivers it does not offer the same Jesus message as the the gospel of Christ.
It is not a coninuation of anything it is a corruption of things.
its popualrity is what gives it its unasliablity not its pedigree.
Christian believe Jesus to be god Muslims do not .

All of your responses and the Crusader mentality among the majority of Christians (some admitted, some not) is the reason Jihad must and will continue.

The claims of freedom are a mask for true intentions, and will never be accepted...you can oppress, but you will not be safe, ever.

Religion isn't the issue, religion is the excuse.

[edit on 7-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Originally posted by paperclip
Just because Bin Laden has a muslim name and says he prays to God, doesn't mean his version of religion is the right one. I am amazed at how many westerners blindly believe the words of mass murderer "Bin Laden says muslims should kill, so that must be the truth", "bin laden says that Qur'an says that americans are infidels and should be punished, he must be telling the truth" and so on. Educated people in the western countries actually BELIEVE him. That is insane.

I certainly have not taken his word for it, but bin Laden says Muslims must kill the infidel and he is correct.

I've read the Qur'an and it's all there. All of it.

Bin Laden is a true Muslim. In fact, the only difference between him and Muhammad, besides Muhammad's claim to prophethood, is Muhammad wasn't burdened by an overwhelming technological disadvantage to his enemies.

And we can all be thankful for that; otherwise we'd all be dead.

Ibn Iblis, are you aware of the fact that christians and jews are not infidels according to Qur'an?
Infidels where polytheistic worshippers in Saudi Arabia during the life of Mohammad. I am surprised that you do not know that, since you have researched Islam so much, as you say.




[edit on 7-11-2004 by paperclip]

You are on crack if you think Muslim women get more respect than Christian women.

United States State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices of Saudi Arabia:

A woman's testimony does not carry the same weight as that of a man. In a Shari'a court, the testimony of one man equals that of two women.

Female parties to court proceedings such as divorce and family law cases generally must deputize male relatives to speak on their behalf. In the absence of two witnesses, or four witnesses in the case of adultery, confessions before a judge almost always are required for criminal conviction--a situation that repeatedly has led prosecuting authorities to coerce confessions from suspects by threats and abuse (see Section 1.c.).

By religious law and social custom, women have the right to own property and are entitled to financial support from their husbands or male relatives. However, women have few political or social rights and are not treated as equal members of society. There are no active women's rights groups. Women legally may not drive motor vehicles and are restricted in their use of public facilities when men are present. Women must enter city buses by separate rear entrances and sit in specially designated sections. Women risk arrest by the Mutawwa'in for riding in a vehicle driven by a male who is not an employee or a close male relative. Women are not admitted to a hospital for medical treatment without the consent of a male relative. By law and custom, women may not undertake domestic or foreign travel alone (see Section 2.d.). In November the Government announced that women could obtain their own identity cards; however, it required that they obtain permission to receive a card from their nearest male relatives.

In public a woman is expected to wear an abaya (a black garment that covers the entire body) and also to cover her head and hair. The Mutawwa'in generally expect women from Arab countries, and other countries in Asia and Africa to comply more fully with Saudi customs of dress than they do Western women; nonetheless, in recent years they have instructed Western women to wear the abaya and cover their hair and face. During the year, Mutawwa'in continued to admonish and harass women to wear their abayas and cover their hair.

Women also are subject to discrimination under Shari'a as interpreted in the country, which stipulates that daughters receive half the inheritance awarded to their brothers. While Shari'a provides women with a basis to own and dispose of property independently, women often are constrained from asserting such rights because of various legal and societal barriers, especially regarding employment and freedom of movement. In a Shari'a court, the testimony of one man equals that of two women (see Section 1.e.). Although Islamic law permits polygyny, with up to four wives, it is becoming less common due to demographic and economic changes. Islamic law enjoins a man to treat each wife equally. In practice such equality is left to the discretion of the husband. Some women participate in Al-Mesyar (or "short daytime visit") marriages, or what are described as "weekend marriages," in which the women relinquish their legal rights to financial support and nighttime cohabitation. Additionally, the husband is not required to inform his other wives of the marriage, and any children resulting from such a marriage have no inheritance rights. The Government places greater restrictions on women than on men regarding marriage to noncitizens and non-Muslims (see Section 1.f.).

Women must demonstrate legally specified grounds for divorce, but men may divorce without giving cause. In doing so, men are required to pay immediately an amount of money agreed upon at the time of the marriage, which serves as a one-time alimony payment. Women who demonstrate legal grounds for divorce still are entitled to this alimony. If divorced or widowed, a Muslim woman normally may keep her children until they attain a specified age: 7 years for boys; 9 years for girls. Children over these ages are awarded to the divorced husband or the deceased husband's family. Numerous divorced foreign women continued to be prevented by their former husbands from visiting their children after divorce.

Women have access to free but segregated education through the university level. They constitute over 58 percent of all university students, but are excluded from studying such subjects as engineering, journalism, and architecture. Men may study overseas; women may do so only if accompanied by a spouse or an immediate male relative.

Women make up approximately 5 percent of the formal work force and own about 20 percent of the businesses, although they must deputize a male relative to represent them in financial transactions. Most employment opportunities for women are in education and health care, with fewer opportunities in business, philanthropy, banking, retail sales, and the media. Despite limited educational opportunities in many professional fields, some female citizens are able to study abroad and return to work in professions such as architecture and journalism. Many foreign women work as domestic servants and nurses.

Also:

Zafran Bibi was raped, but a Pakistan judge decided it was adultery - now this young mother will be stoned to death

Zafran Bibi walked into the police station in the village of Kerri Sheikhan, deep in the valleys of Pakistan's North West Frontier, and gave a harrowing account of how she had been raped by a neighbour.
Medical tests were ordered, witnesses questioned and a trial was held. Defence lawyers were called in. But Pakistan's archaic legal system, a mix of secular and Islamic codes, offers little protection for women.

Bibi, 28, was convicted of adultery under Islamic laws which many regard as deeply prejudicial. Last month, a year after she reported the rape, a judge sentenced her to death by stoning.

For several weeks the young mother has lived in solitary confinement in a death cell behind the redbrick walls of Kohat jail nursing her seven-month old daughter.

From the Qur'an:

[004:034] Men are in charge of women, because All�h hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which All�h hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge (beat) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! All�h is ever High, Exalted, Great.
[038:044] And (it was said unto him): Take in thine hand a branch and smite (her) therewith, and break not thine oath.
[002:223] Your wives are as a soil to be cultivated unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.

In the hadith Sahih al-Bukhari, the most sound and highly regarded hadith, Muhammad goes to hell and guess who he says the majority of the inhabitants are?

[V001B006#201] Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Stupid, faithless women.

Originally posted by paperclip
Ibn Iblis, are you aware of the fact that christians and jews are not infidels according to Qur'an?

Infidels where polytheistic worshippers in Saudi Arabia during the life of Mohammad. I am surprised that you do not know that, since you have researched Islam so much, as you say.

100% FALSE.

[005:051] O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliy�' (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Auliy�' of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Auliy�'), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, All�h guides not those people who are Z�lim�n (unjust).
[009:029] Fight against those who (1) believe not in All�h, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which hath been forbidden by All�h and His Messenger, (4) nor acknowledge the religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) of the People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
[[002:193] And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with All�h) and (all and every kind of) worship is for All�h (alone).

Who do you think you're fooling?

hehehe, Ibn Iblis, you are funny.
Three verses from three different suras completely out of context, and one of them is even confirming what I was saying.

Christians and Jews are People of the Book, infidels are idol worshippers.

First verse refers to certain Christians and Jews, for good reason. We all know how the attitude of christian church was towards non-christians until recently. Millions have died in their hands. The verse is about those who have conspired against Mohammad and his followers at that time, trying to kill them. Of course you are not supposed to be friends with those who hate you, don't respect you and want to kill you.

I most certainly do not want to be friends with that moron Jerry Falwell, for example. Nor with a convicted murderer Ariel Sharon. They can be friends with eachother.

During the life of Mohammad, Islam was only begining to form, it was necesary to get more people to convert to Islam, and to erase doubts in their mind. Hence the verses that refer to people of other faiths trying to get you on "their side" and how one should resist that.

Are you researching the qur'an in historical, religious, modern or wahabist context? I ask because explanations greatly differ depending on your point of view. I have a feeling you are mixing all of those, I don't know if you are doing it on purpose or not.


The second verse you quoted refers again to Mohammad fighting idol worshippers in Saudi Arabia, actually fighting back would be the correct translation.
Then you, oh so conveniently, quote a verse from another sura attaching it to this one like they are part of one thought. Hehehe, quite amusing.

The third verse you quoted reads as following (in context with previous verses of the same sura, not some other):

[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.

[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.

[2:192] If they refrain, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[2:193] You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.

[2:194] During the Sacred Months, aggression may be met by an equivalent response. If they attack you, you may retaliate by inflicting an equitable retribution. You shall observe GOD and know that GOD is with the righteous.

[2:195] You shall spend in the cause of GOD; do not throw yourselves with your own hands into destruction. You shall be charitable; GOD loves the charitable.



As you might notice, the command to fight is always in context of fighting BACK if you are already attacked.

You're out of your league, sir. I am not some novice stepping out into the world thinking because I've read Prophet of Doom that I know Islam. You might have had your share of those people; I am not one of them.

The Qur'an was written at the beginning of time, and sits on a "guarded tablet" in heaven in perfect eternal form. So to say that "at the time" Jews and Christians had bad attitudes towards Muslims is nonsense. Allah is saying that until the last day Muslims should not make friends of Jews and Christians.

Also, there is no free will in Islam. If Jews and Christians are or were belligerent towards Muslims it is because Allah has willed it that way, for everything that will ever happen through all time has been written by the pen of fate. Allah purposely created unbelievers so he can fill the hellfire with them:

[032.013] And if We had willed, surely, We would have given every person his guidance, but the Word from Me took effect (about evil-doers), that I will fill Hell with jinn and men together.
[054.049] Verily, We have created all things with Qadar (Divine Preordainments of all things before their creation as written in the Book of Decrees--Al-Lauh-Al-Mahfuz)

My quotes are not out of context, nor are they insignificant. No verse of the Qur'an is any more or any less important that the other. They are all God's commandments, all important, all perfect, all eternal, and all of them not subject to "context" or interpretation. These verses clearly state that infidels are to be killed, converted, or subdued.

Originally posted by Scat
.......your point?

muslims and Christians DO worship the same god. Anyone up to date on religious history here folks?

The two doctrines are not compatible, therefore they are not worshipping the the same God. It doesn't take a 5th grad reader to figure that out. Brothers of the same God is not likely to cut the head off of their kinsman, would you think.

Bush is ignorant of the Islamic belief - or worse.

Bush gets his advice on Islam from David Forte, a constitutional lawyer who knows nothing about Islam.

Blind Faith
By Franklin Foer

Cleveland-Marshall College of Law Professor David Forte might seem an unorthodox choice for the role of presidential adviser on Islam. For one thing, he's not Muslim. For another, he doesn't speak Arabic. His academic specialty is U.S. constitutional law, and he readily admits that he "dabble[s]" in Islamic jurisprudence. "That's why I call myself a student and not an expert," he told me.

But thanks to the aggressive promotion of his work by two influential conservative think tanks, the Hudson Institute and the Heritage Foundation, Forte's writings on Islam have found their way onto the reading lists of Defense Undersecretary Douglas Feith and the National Security Council's Elliot Abrams. U.N. Ambassador John Negroponte has requested his oeuvre; State Department officials have quizzed him on his views. And when President Bush addressed Congress last month, he seemed to pluck whole phrases from Forte's writings. Or, as one official told The Washington Post: The president's speech was "Forte-ed."

In particular Bush has embraced Forte's argument that Al Qaeda are theological heretics. They practice, Forte contends, an esoteric strain of Islam that traces to a seventh-century sect. "[The terrorists] are not religious," Forte told the Post. "They are a new form of fascist tyranny."

I think that about sums up the arrogance of the Islam apologists. Never read the Qur'an but feel qualified to offer the opinion that Muslim fanatics are not really Muslims.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne


The two doctrines are not compatible, therefore they are not worshipping the the same God. It doesn't take a 5th grad reader to figure that out. Brothers of the same God is not likely to cut the head off of their kinsman, would you think.

Bush is ignorant of the Islamic belief - or worse.

I to think he just said that for political purposes.


They do not worship the same God, there is no way as they both DENY the other in their doctrine.