Bush Says - Christians and Muslims Worship Same God

I do not appreciate the PM I received from one
ATS member calling my post 'incompetant' and
instructing me to 'read up', etc. etc.

My response to you is GROW UP and read what
I posted.

Most Christians worship a TRINITY GOD.
Muslims DO NOT. THIS IS A DIFFERENT GOD TOTALLY.

Most Christians have One God with Three Divine Persons.
Muslims have one god ... ONE ... no Jesus or Holy Spirit to worship.

DIFFERENT!

Originally posted by chapo
If I follow your thought the muslims+ the jews have a pagan GOD ???

I don't think so.

The Muslims shared the same prophets and the same basic God to
begin with, but they allowed some aspects of their pagan worship
of Allah (the moon god) to enter in. This changed the dynamics
of who they worship.

Muslims worship their slave master.

Jews worship their Creator, (and sorta business partner
if you look at the 'covenants').

Most Christians worship a TRINITY God - their Father in Heaven,
Their brother Jesus, and their sanctifier the Holy Spirit. All
receiving equal worship. This is pagan to the Muslims and Jews.

It's all different.

*edited to add - there was a time period in the Muslim history
when they went through a pagan period - and during that time
the moon god was named Allah.

[edit on 10/31/2004 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by deeprivergal

abcnews.go.com
In an exclusive interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson, Bush said he believes that both Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

"I think we do. We have different routes of getting to the Almighty," Bush said. "But I want you to understand, I want your listeners to understand, I don't get to get decide who goes to heaven. The Almighty God decides who goes to heaven and I am on my personal walk," he said.


"I think they pray to a false God, otherwise they wouldn't be killing � like they have been."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

You mean the way you kill people makes a difference? If you kill them with air burst ordnance instead of passenger airplanes, that is different of itself? If the ordnance has a US flag on it and is authorized, that is more in the realm of goodness? Last time I looked, the 10 commandments apply to everyone period. Going too far beyond immediate self defense is immoral is it not?

Let us get this straight, false "gods," are universally applicable, and if it "looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, golly gee, it's a duck!"

It appears like the blind leading the blind. Think about it and count to 10 prior to all autoresponders, please.

I voted for Bush last time and will this time. But I don't agree with him saying they are the same God and I don't agree with some other things. They are not the same God. He's trying to say this is not a war on Islam, so that's why he says this. There is a spiritual battle behind what we see.

this is all interesting to see the different opinions people have. I believe that the three Major religions are in one way or another connected. People tend to forget that Jesus was a Jewish prophet. The Jews don't see him as the son of God as Christians do. Same with Mohammed, he was a prophet. I'm not familiar with the Jewish religion. Don't these three religions have a few of the same angels going around?

[edit on 30-10-2004 by Cy4111]

would it surprise you to know that is the exact philosophy of the freemasons?

The trouble with this debate, is that the definiton of "worship" and "God" is different depending on who you are.

In some way all the posts here are correct. Its all to do with your viewpoint.
However instead of trying to meet some objective, tick boxes of "this is my God, this is your God, how about looking at it another way.

SUBJECTIVLY, in the persons heart, who is it that they worship? Usually it is the revealed creator from the Old Testamant, yhwh. For the Muslims, they worship God BEFORE he sent Jesus. The God of the Old Testament, the same as the Jews.

Now because they worship God who controls their lives using the Old Testament rules, they WILL BE JUDGED using those rules.

Therefore their sincerity in keeping the revealed truth up to that time will be the yardstick by which they are judged by God.

Therefore to the Muslims, and the Jews, the way to Heaven is via "works" things that you must do. Their ability to follow those laws determines their success. Their sincerity in following those rules determines their fate.

However Christians, worship God as he revealed himself in the New Testament. Therefore they will be judged by the "rules" that are involved there. Those rules are not "works" but the acceptence of who Jesus is, and and the work that Jesus did for the person.

You don't need works to go to heaven.

In another format, its like this poor analogy .....

You can programme your computer using command line arguments in machine langauge. You must get everything absolutly correct to do that.

OR you can program your computer using Visual Basic, which has a high degree of pre programming and error correction built into it.

Make one mistake under the first method and nothing works, make mistakes under the second method, and either it picks it up for you or shows you exactly where you went wrong.

----------------

So yes, Both Muslims and Christians worship the same God, but they actions and their success at it are totally different.

Originally posted by Machine
President Bush is either ignorant of Christian teachings or he was being politically correct. I hope for his sake it was the former. The god of the Koran is not the God of the Bible. The Muslim people worship a false god.

The Holy Bible says:

John 14:6 KJV
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The Koran denies the deity and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Without Jesus no amount of good works or religion will keep you from paying the price for your sins.

Jesus is the only way to Heaven.

ur a moron. u know nothing of the Muslim religion. Muslims believe in Jesus and Moses, they just call them Isa and Musa. Also, it is in the Quran that the Bible is one of the Holy Books. It is one of the 6 basic rules of Islam to believe in all Prophets, including Isa (Jesus), Musa (Moses) and Muhammad and the Holy books including the Injeel (in English known as Bible).

so please go shoot urself.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by chapo
If I follow your thought the muslims+ the jews have a pagan GOD ???

I don't think so.

The Muslims shared the same prophets and the same basic God to
begin with, but they allowed some aspects of their pagan worship
of Allah (the moon god) to enter in. This changed the dynamics
of who they worship.

Muslims worship their slave master.

Jews worship their Creator, (and sorta business partner
if you look at the 'covenants').

Most Christians worship a TRINITY God - their Father in Heaven,
Their brother Jesus, and their sanctifier the Holy Spirit. All
receiving equal worship. This is pagan to the Muslims and Jews.

It's all different.

*edited to add - there was a time period in the Muslim history
when they went through a pagan period - and during that time
the moon god was named Allah.

[edit on 10/31/2004 by FlyersFan]

What have you been smoking? does it say all that in the Bible? i dont think so. Muslims don't worship the moon god, they worship The God. Allah in English means The God. Muslims believe he is the CREATOR and SUSTAINER of everything. HE owns everything. Not just the moon. the only evidence you have of that is that the Muslim month goes by the moon unlike the Christian.

WOW, honestly the person who posted this thread is absolutely un educated and therefore shouldn't ever write again.

Im muslim and let us get some things straight.

Muslims believe in Jesus Christ. He was a prophet, as was Noah or Nuh and Moses or Musa.

Next, Allah means God in Arabic. Not, we do not pray to a different God called Allah, it is the same God Christians pray to as well.

Second, Bush is an idiot, so why would we listen to what he says. You must understand the Bin Laden has skewed Islam to fit his priorities. It is easy to assimlate a small army with a common theme and of course a common enemy. If you do not know what Islam truly is, read the Quran, NOT KORAN, for yourself and ask a knowledgable person in the field of religions or specifically Islam.

Originally posted by Cy4111
this is all interesting to see the different opinions people have. I believe that the three Major religions are in one way or another connected. People tend to forget that Jesus was a Jewish prophet. The Jews don't see him as the son of God as Christians do. Same with Mohammed, he was a prophet. I'm not familiar with the Jewish religion. Don't these three religions have a few of the same angels going around?

[edit on 30-10-2004 by Cy4111]

Well, two similar angels i know of are Jibrail, in English called Gabriel and Mikail, Michael in English. Also, to prove that Muslims and Christians believe in the same Prophets until Jesus i'm going to write down the names of Prophets in Arabic first and then in English.

Ibrahim - Abraham
Nooh - Noah
Dawud - David
Musa - Moses
Isa - Jesus
Aadam - Adam
and many more i can't remember now.

The difference in Christianity and Islam begins from Jesus. Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God, we believe, that like every other prophet, he is the Messenger of Allah. Also,christians say he is the last prophet, we believe that Muhammad was the last prophet. Christians don't believe in the Quran while the Muslims believe in all Holy books that were sent down through many Prophets, including the Bible which was revealed through Jesus. I hope this makes it clear to you that Christians and Muslims do NOT worship a different god.

Originally posted by Netchicken
The trouble with this debate, is that the definiton of "worship" and "God" is different depending on who you are.

In some way all the posts here are correct. Its all to do with your viewpoint.
However instead of trying to meet some objective, tick boxes of "this is my God, this is your God, how about looking at it another way.

SUBJECTIVLY, in the persons heart, who is it that they worship? Usually it is the revealed creator from the Old Testamant, yhwh. For the Muslims, they worship God BEFORE he sent Jesus. The God of the Old Testament, the same as the Jews.

Now because they worship God who controls their lives using the Old Testament rules, they WILL BE JUDGED using those rules.

Therefore their sincerity in keeping the revealed truth up to that time will be the yardstick by which they are judged by God.

Therefore to the Muslims, and the Jews, the way to Heaven is via "works" things that you must do. Their ability to follow those laws determines their success. Their sincerity in following those rules determines their fate.

However Christians, worship God as he revealed himself in the New Testament. Therefore they will be judged by the "rules" that are involved there. Those rules are not "works" but the acceptence of who Jesus is, and and the work that Jesus did for the person.

You don't need works to go to heaven.

In another format, its like this poor analogy .....

You can programme your computer using command line arguments in machine langauge. You must get everything absolutly correct to do that.

OR you can program your computer using Visual Basic, which has a high degree of pre programming and error correction built into it.

Make one mistake under the first method and nothing works, make mistakes under the second method, and either it picks it up for you or shows you exactly where you went wrong.

----------------

So yes, Both Muslims and Christians worship the same God, but they actions and their success at it are totally different.

ok buddy. lemme tell u something. Jesus came Before Muhammad. This is why the Christian calender is at 2004 while the Muslim calender is at the year 1425. This makes the Muslim believers of the 'New Testament'. secondly, it is moronic to compare a thing like computer programming to how Godly things. Another thing, the only reason the Christians think that belief in Jesus is enough to assure them a spot in heaven and actions are not important is because they do not want to bring religion to their practical life. Muslims make everything else part of their religion while Christians make religion part of everything else. know what i mean? to Christians, religion is just another thing they have to do like going to work every morning. they just like to believe that belief in jesus will excuse them so they can have all the fun that they want in this life without any fear of any consequences on the Last Day. Muslims on the other hand make everything else adjust to their religion. It's not like a job for them, it's like breathing, something you can't stop doing no matter what or the consequences will not be very likeable.

PS: no offense intended, i was just trying to shut this moron up.

Originally posted by Byrd
(it was interesting to go back to the Baptist church after 30 years and find out that they'd gone from worshipping a divinity who was addressed in flowing formal tones as "father" to worshipping some sort of Valley Girl deity named Jesus with a 5 second attention span (prayers went along the lines of "And Jesus, you're so powerful, Jesus, we humbly worship you, Jesus....")

Oh, I bet that WAS an eye-opening experience. Perhaps akin to Catholics brought up pre-Vatican II, and then the nextSunday *wham* big changes in what and how you believe.

____________

I think most ALL of us believe in the same CREATOR. We jus have different names and ceremonies.
I don't think killing should be part of anyone's personal beliefs.

If Bush EVER said such a thing--that Allah and YHVH are the same--why is it okay for HIM [in his mind] to obliterate as many Muslims as he can possibly poison, bomb or radiate?

Is he crazy or just stupid?

Chai

Originally posted by jupiter869
Well, anyone who knows anything about the Muslum religion knows that Mohammad was the "mouthpiece of Jesus Christ".

OK, here is the ten second version of the religion for those that are unknowledgable about it:

Mohammad was visited by the angel Gabriel one night while he was sleeping and was told that he was going to be Christ's mouthpiece. Mohammad woke up scared as anything and told his wife. A few weeks went by and when Mohammad went to bed again, he was visited by Gabriel and two other angels. They took him to Jerusulem and then to Heaven to meet the apostles and Jesus himself. The next morning, when Mohammad told his wife, they thought he was dreaming. However, some men came came to visit his wife that day who conicidentally were just in Jeruselem (which was a few days ride away). They asked him some questions about it and were absolutely convinced he was there--and very recently too! This proved to Mohammad and his wife that these were no dreams. The next day, Mohammad suddenly went into a kind of trance and began to speak in a beautiful prose. Scribes were immediately summoned and copied down everything he said. Mohammad awoke from his trance after as if nothing had happened. After that, scribes followed Mohammad around everywhere he went for years. At times he would go into the trance almost daily. Then, days, weeks, months would go by and nothing would happen. Then it would start again. These writings the scribes wrote were the words of Jesus Christ spoken through Mohammad. They are, of course, the Koran. The Koran teaches pure non-violence, love, non-judgement, etc. The misuse and minipulation of the religion is what has lead to the extremists that terrorize us today.

TRY NOT TO JUDGE THINGS WITHOUT KNOWING AT LEAST SOMETHING ABOUT IT FIRST.

.

OK, we've read ur version, now lets read mine. Jesus was a prophet of God and was sent down to teach the same thing Muhammad was sent to teach, and that is the right path, u can call it Islam or Christianity, name doenst matter. Jesus had some special powers, but he was NOT the son of God, GOD doesnt have any relative. Muhammad, just like Jesus, was a prophet of God (Allah) and he did delivered, as you said, the words of GOD, not Jesus. Muhammad did go from Mecca to Al-Aqsa Mosue (Masjid Al-Aqsa) in Jeruselum. He traveled on a flying animal called Al-Buraq. He did to to the Heavens where he met Allah. So the difference in ur story and mine is that u sadi Muhammad was a mouthpiece of Jesus while I say that Jesus is not GOD, but only a Messenger of his like Muhammad. Muhammad said the words brought down to him by Gabriel from Allah.

Thankyou no_fear for the typical knuckle dragging response that stops me from wasting more time in this forum.

Do you even understand what you are saying?

This makes the Muslim believers of the 'New Testament'

I think that even the Muslims would be offended by this piece of incoherent nonsence. In no way does it mean anthing like you are attempting to say. They believe in the Old Testamant, and a distorted version of that ONLY. They believe that the new Testamanet is a corruption of what it's meant to be (nice Islamic indoctrination that stops them from examining it)

Also if you are unable to comprehend the analogy of the computer programming I was making its probably better that you just don't say anything rather than display your inability in your post. If you would like me to tell you what I meant by it in words with less syllables then just ask.

Originally posted by no_fear007


ok buddy. lemme tell u something. Jesus came Before Muhammad. This is why the Christian calender is at 2004 while the Muslim calender is at the year 1425. This makes the Muslim believers of the 'New Testament'. secondly, it is moronic to compare a thing like computer programming to how Godly things. Another thing, the only reason the Christians think that belief in Jesus is enough to assure them a spot in heaven and actions are not important is because they do not want to bring religion to their practical life. Muslims make everything else part of their religion while Christians make religion part of everything else. know what i mean? to Christians, religion is just another thing they have to do like going to work every morning. they just like to believe that belief in jesus will excuse them so they can have all the fun that they want in this life without any fear of any consequences on the Last Day. Muslims on the other hand make everything else adjust to their religion. It's not like a job for them, it's like breathing, something you can't stop doing no matter what or the consequences will not be very likeable.

PS: no offense intended, i was just trying to shut this moron up.

They are NOT the same God and Bush must have said that for political reasons.....


God never spoke with the Prophet, only Gabriel did is just one example.

Originally posted by no_fear007

ur a moron. u know nothing of the Muslim religion. Muslims believe in Jesus and Moses, they just call them Isa and Musa. Also, it is in the Quran that the Bible is one of the Holy Books. It is one of the 6 basic rules of Islam to believe in all Prophets, including Isa (Jesus), Musa (Moses) and Muhammad and the Holy books including the Injeel (in English known as Bible).

so please go shoot urself.

Well apparently you have no clue either then, although what you say is close, the moslems do NOT hold the bible in any reguard as they think it is corrupted.

The 2 books can not coexist...


Oh Yeah....allah is the God of Abram, but that is where the similarities end...Issac was given the inheritance, not Ishmael

[edit on 1-11-2004 by edsinger]

well i dont believe we worship the same God, as my God consists of Jesus, the Son, The Holy Spirit, and The Father. While they believe in Allah, aka Satan, lol, jk. But sense Jesus WAS the Son of Man, the Son of God, whom he says YES HE IS to the priest, and to the lady he tells her he is the messiah, the son of man in John. And since he was the Son of God, he is the equal to his father, he is the forgiver. The bible is correct, whether it has been corrupted or not, it still holds the right ideas. Also, our God doesn't tell us to kill the infidels, he tells us to love our enemies. Whether we practice it is up to us, but that is what he tells us. That is NOT what Allah tells the muslims!

[edit on 1-11-2004 by Ryanp5555]

For those who know the Absolute Truth and see fit to ridicule those who don't, a brief observation.

If you are privy to the Absolute Truth, then why do you fear the false beliefs of others who disagree with you?

The only reason for doing so is if you don't believe you are right. Your insults are a public expression of this fear.

Thus the reason you choose insults is your knowledge of your own fallacy.

That is how I interpret this sort of behavior. Anger, Hatred, Spite and all their relatives are children of the same parent: Fear. Fear is the herald of Darkness.

My recommendation: If you're not sure whether you are right or wrong, it's okay. It's okay to be human and imperfect. There is no shame in uncertainty, only in dishonesty.

If you think someone else holds a false opinion, I recommend criticizing the opinion rather than the brother or sister who subscribes to it.

Insulting others will not make you a better person or make people think you are smart, it merely advertises your folly for others to see.