NASA knew Columbia crew could die but chose not to tell them

Originally posted by Phage
Myth.

Coverup.

reply to post by TrueAmerican

Did you read the actual blog post?
No, of course not, you just read the distorted claims about it.

Do you think the astronaughts stupid?
They KNEW theywere likely dead men and women before they even tried reentry....thay had to know....
Damage to the TPS is pretty much 100 % fatal i believe...
That was my first thought when we heard about it.....so i doubt the astronaughts didnt guess....

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

NASA knew Columbia crew could die but chose not to tell them

www.rawstory.com

A NASA flight director has revealed that personnel on the ground knew in 2003 that the Space Shuttle Columbia would not likely survive re-entry, but chose not to inform the vessel’s crew. According to an ABC News report from Thursday, when faced with the choice of letting the astronauts die trying to come home or leaving them to orbit until their air ran out, high-ranking NASA officials chose to let the Columbia crew die in ignorance of what was to befall them.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
abcnews.go.com

And this means nothing, because every person in America knows there is a chance that astronauts will die when attempting space travel....I'm assuming most astronauts, to include those on board the Columbia, are/were aware of this also.

reply to post by stirling

Here is what Wayne Hale actually said in the blog post that is misrepresented in the OP.

Much has been made of this analysis in the CAIB report. There were flaws in the analysis, but post accident testing showed that the bottom line was correct: a glancing foam strike on the underside of the left wing would have damaged the soft thermal tiles but probably not to the point at which fatal heat would reach the interior of the wing. Calvin was a recognized expert on the shuttle tile system. After discussion of other minor issues on the mission and the status of the ongoing experiments, the MMT was adjourned.

waynehale.wordpress.com...

Houston did not think there was a significant problem. Houston did not know "in 2003 that the Space Shuttle Columbia would not likely survive re-entry".

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

From what I understand about it. There was a question in mission control about irreparable damage and the possibility of lost life but it was mostly speculative and there was no definitive conclusion as to what they would do if they found that to be the case.

From what was said though, they did not find the damage that caused the destruction to the ship upon inspecting and did believe it could land safely. The fact that this was discussed is unfortunate, because there is little doubt that the discussion took place but I personally don't believe they knew that shuttle would not make it.

Thing is though, the actual video of the tiles falling off on take-off were clearly visible (if I remember correctly), that video would've been analyzed thoroughly the minute it was taken, so they knew there was a chance they wouldn't make it.

Even some NASA scientists must have common sense: Something falls off the shuttle, what else is it possibly going to be from that area of the craft?

Edit, if this was the scenario, then only a select few would have known

Double edit, all the above is just my opinion

Originally posted by Phage
Houston did not think there was a significant problem. Houston did not know "in 2003 that the Space Shuttle Columbia would not likely survive re-entry".

edit on 2/1/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

That's not what I'm reading:

Several engineers at the space agency suspected something was wrong. Fuzzy video showed foam breaking off the orbiter's external fuel tank and hitting its left wing during blast off. But no one knew if there was damage. At that time NASA had no options for repair. The crew was on a science mission, nowhere near the International Space Station. They had no robotic arm to look at the wing, no way to repair the wing if they had damage, and it would take much too long to send up another space shuttle to rescue the crew.

It was agonizing for Rocha, who had begged the Mission Management Team to ask the Department of Defense to use whatever it had to take high resolution photos. He was turned down. In an exclusive interview with ABC News in 2003 he detailed how his requests were repeatedly denied.

"I made a phone call to the manager of the shuttle engineering office, the same person that had relayed the 'No" message to me from orbiter management. I was still pretty agitated and upset. Had he spoken to our engineering director about this? I wanted the director of JSC engineering to be informed. Had he been informed? And he said no. I was thunderstruck and astonished again."

Chief failure to listen to wise Indian. MULTIPLE times.

abcnews.go.com...

reply to post by TrueAmerican

Show me where is says that Houston knew that the shuttle was not likely to survive re-entry.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

Show me where is says that Houston knew that the shuttle was not likely to survive re-entry.

That's my opinion mate, it doesn't say anywhere

reply to post by Zcustosmorum

Thing is though, the actual video of the tiles falling off on take-off were clearly visible (if I remember correctly), that video would've been analyzed thoroughly the minute it was taken, so they knew there was a chance they wouldn't make it.

There was no video of tiles falling off. There was video of insulation from the ET hitting the shuttle. There was no way of knowing what, if any, damage it caused.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

Show me where is says that Houston knew that the shuttle was not likely to survive re-entry.

How were they going to know if the DoD wouldn't grant the research requests of the MMT engineers when they suspected something was drastically wrong? Did you read the article? No, of course not.

reply to post by TrueAmerican

Right. They didn't know. So it is not true that:

A NASA flight director has revealed that personnel on the ground knew in 2003 that the Space Shuttle Columbia would not likely survive re-entry

www.rawstory.com...

And it is also not true that the crew was not informed of the incident.

reply to post by Phage


Well then I suppose you can take that up with abc news then, cause it's right there in the article.

reply to post by TrueAmerican

And, of course, it's on ABC so it must be true.
The crew had been briefed.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Something tells me a rescue would have cost more than their training.... IDK call me paranoid.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Well, the only countries capable of manned flight that I know of are US and Russia, so it would make sense to have a backup.

I really do hope NASA learns from this (can't see why they didn't learn from Challenger), and has an agreement with other space agencies to have a backup rocket/shuttle to prevent another disaster.

Top 10 myths surrounding NASA's Columbia space shuttle disaster
Just posted by Jim Osberg NBC

. NASA knew the spaceship was fatally damaged but decided not to tell the crew.


This newborn myth consists entirely of exaggerated or misrepresented excerpts from a recent blog posting by former NASA official Wayne Hale. He reported a private conversation during the mission that speculated what might be best in the event lethal damage were discovered. No official decision was ever made, because nobody thought there was any need. Columbia's astronauts were fully informed of the actual results of NASA's analysis, which determined that the impacting debris had not hit a vital region of the heat shield. That conclusion was found to be erroneous only in hindsight.

science.nbcnews.com...

eta: I just noticed this has already been brought to light by phage, disregard.

All I can offer in this argument is that I was involved in the launch and recovery of this vehicle, (as a vip security escort of IIan Ramon), and in the days following the reentry failure there was absolutely no indication that anyone knew anything as to any expectation the result of reentry nor the subsequent catastrophe, everyone was completely shocked and totally at a loss.
I have photos, and a certificate of appreciation, but its worth nothing here without verifying my identity.

This is BS. NASA, from the first manned flignt on, has practiced redundancy. There was a back up plan for every thing. There was always a contingency plan;. It may have been (pardon the pun) way out there, but there was a back up plan, even with those little capsules. 4
Nasa screwed the puch on this one.

reply to post by kettlebellysmith

Can you give us a run down of the backup plan that was in place for Apollo 13?
What redundancies were in place?

I really think youd have to be pretty naive not to understand the peril the astronaughts faced upon reentry with damaged heat tiles in almost any part of the ship......
Personally i wasnt surprised it blew up on reentry (disintegrated then)
I half expected it to do just that, and im just a dumb logger.....
The obvious stupidity of the whole scenario sickens one...
Nobody could have gotten out and actually looked at the damage from within??
Comon Phage get real.......dont tell me there was nobody minding the store......duh