I'm worried about ATS..

Nam,

I think everything is always changing and with that said the site and you change over time.

This site is awesome and I love it.... love coming here if not daily almost every day. I find it the same though. I for one am not the same as when I found it.

When I don't find myself here for a few days to a week and come back, it is a refresher.

Have you taken at least a week at a time here and there without coming to ATS? It may be just what you need so you can come back and feel refreshed and not feel as though the change blame is totally on the site.

ATS has definitely gone through changes over the years. While I personally have never posted all that much, I have been an avid viewer of this forum for a very long time. This site has become more mainstream, which in my opinion has made it watered down.

I recall coming home from work years ago and looking forward to jumping on here to see what topics were being discussed. The subject matter and debates captivated me. It felt like my mind had been under lock and key my entire life and this site had the key to set me free.

For what it's worth I miss the old ATS, when it felt like you were entering a little unknown part of the world that very few were aware of. Growth was inevitable. I'm sure this site has turned into a nice money making machine for the owners and I'm happy for you guys. I just miss the good old days of John Titor, John Lear and Bob Lazar.

I still feel compelled to stop by now and then, but it's not the same. Maybe it's because the topics aren't new to me anymore. Maybe it's because the amount of members has probabaly multiplied by the thousands and it feels commercialized. I'm sure it's the combination of many things. Does anyone else remember coming here back in the day and there were probably a dozen or so forum categories? It now feels like I'm navigating through a labyrinth. There's a forum and sub forum for everything. R.I.P OLD ATS. I miss ya!!!!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I found ATS a LONG time ago, but never joined and at the time it was like some magical corner of the internet that seemed actually Above Top Secret. I thought I had found real secrets haha.. I never save anything in browsers so after that night I couldn't remember anything about ATS except that I thought secret was in the name and that the website looked dark... It was funny I expected to find Agents at my door because I had found their secret forum hideout, hahaha... Ignorance is Bliss.

People were posting these pictures of government craft I had never seen, and there were CIA documents on MK-Ultra... Whoa..

I found the site again by accident when I searched for "Black Triangle craft"

To this day I'm not even sure this was the same website.. When I got here the colors seemed wrong and I couldn't find any of the old posts.. I told my experience of the black triangle almost shaking thinking some government group would be watching it.. No one really responded.. I made 2 posts, and then completely forgot about this place again, including my login info...

I then recently remembered this place was here and found it through some alex jones thing or was it coast? I don't know but I came back, and it doesn't at all feel like either of the two times before that..

Each time I came back the place just seemed more and more boring..

I realize now what had changed and it was partially the site, but more so I have gone over every classic conspiracy. I have read pretty much all the FOIA documents that had promise.. I researched everything interesting about UFOs.. I sorted out all the hoaxes.. In the end all I am left with is a thought...

What's the next frontier..

I'm not the type to start threads so I can't really complain, but where are all the others who have reached this point? Where is the next boundry?

For me the next boundry is the mind itself, the soul, and the beginning of the universe, God... Seeing as I have read all the main opinions about those I need something new...

That something new has a way of coming out in shamanistic and other ritual/brain chemistry ways.. Something ATS can't give me..



There are 2 reasons I stay.
1)NEWS Best News site if you don't just want the article, but some linking of articles, breaking articles, and good discussion, to really get the whole thing into an understandable event.
2)ADDICTION.. Self explanatory ATS is like one of those things you can't talk about on ATS.. Like a crack in the wall I can't get out of.

MAybe it's time I find a second forum to post on?

reply to post by Dustytoad

Yeah I can't find what I'm searching for here any longer, and it's some novel form, something in the mind and heart and soul, it's not in outer space but innerspace, it's not as much evolution as it is involution.

But when you try to express it, and then discover that practically no one can even begin to understand or relate to what you're talking about, that's when it starts to get pretty darn lonely.

Then again the only way to validate a good idea is to share it with others and see what comes back reflected. We need to subject our reality maps to the scrutiny of others and there are still some pretty wise and enlightened people around here.

I believe in something that Pierre Tielhard du Chardin referred to as the Omegapoint of the Cosmogenssis of the Noosphere, which is like a great idea whose time has come and will be taken up in a new interconnected global mindsphere, as if the idea itself is the next stage of our human evolution. Such a thing will require receptivity however, and curious and inquiring minds to find it and then run with it and share it in every way from every angle and perspective.

I'm torn between trying to unearth and share that idea here, or to try to find it within and live it out out there in the real world, but I'm still tantalized by the prospect of coming up with something of value that perhaps 100,000 people might read and evaluate.

If ATS has gone downhill like we're all describing, and if the minds of the masses are atrophying, then maybe the right thing to do is to stick around and keep on hammering away I don't know it's a tough call because more often than not it just seems like a complete waste of time and even life, and I've already spent much too much time as it is due to my ATS addiction.

That too is something that I'm really struggling with, an addiction to ATS.

Maybe it's time for a break.

Originally posted by Garkiniss
I took an almost year long hiatus from ATS and recently came back, and this place is almost unrecognizable.
I'm not saying it's "bad", but it's not the ATS I remember. As you stated in the OP, something's not clicking and I can't really put my finger on it.

Feels kinda like visiting your high school 15 years later. There are a few familiar faces, but for the most part it's like "Who are these strange people."

edit on 31-1-2013 by Garkiniss because: (no reason given)

The reason its different is because it is.

many of the best minds have pulled a "John Galt" and split after pissing off the management or just getting a gut full of harassment, sockpuppets and disinfo.

For me ATS has always had too much mainstream political discussion and not enough conspiracy stuff. More debunking than highlighting of Fortean phenomena. And a far too limited recognition of the propaganda and media manipulation we're being fed every day.

It's always been Conspiracy Theorist Lite. Or Conspiracy Theorizing for Beginners.

I don't come here enough to decide if it's become worse. But it's likely. Most things do. Laws of entropy being what they are.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

OP, I've been putting thought into your thread here, off and on while doing other things and letting it stew in the back of my mind until my thoughts came together to make some sense.

First, let me say, I agree with you. ATS has changed and it's not we who have changed this time...but the tone of the site. It's been a subtle thing but then, bad things usually are in how they come, aren't they?

I don't pretend to have special insight or anything else. I'm just a guy that's been in all this since BBS's were single phone lines linked to the world in numbers with a baud rate attached. I can offer only my humble opinions based on that time of online experience.

What's changed is a vicious edge to damn near everything, across every forum and on every topic.

No topic can't become a hard debate issue now and I think people are sick and tired of it. A post in Space Exploration about the wonders of the Universe as caught by a probe or Hubble? The Apollo Hoax bunch will be along shortly to derail or perhaps...just snipe at the tech and/or "hoax" of even believing it exists.....while saying on another thread the Government is TOO powerful to even challenge at a ballot box. :shk:

Whats changed are threads of members seeking a helping hand in advice from others they've closely talked with and grown to respect as well as receive respect from .... to be jumped like a tourist at Mardi Gras who wandered too close to the alley shadows by those who can't conceive of a place like this fostering REAL community ties and relations between members.

What's changed is the sport of running down, ridiculing and generally meeting EVERY thread with the attitude of "how can I challenge, debunk or attack this?' becoming the norm for enough people to send plenty of members into silence altogether.



HOW do I KNOW this is the case, some may ask?

Well, it's elementary my dear members. Until fairly recently, it was a challenge to have a story thread remain in Newest Topics long enough to get noticed at all. Rolling at 15-25 minutes from new post to roll over was maddening as a thread contributor at times. Oh how I wished a few times it would slow down.....

Now it has...and it's depressing. MANY MANY times recently I've popped on from whatever else I'm doing to find Newest Topics threads languishing a full 2 and sometimes THREE HOURS on the short list for lack of new content. COME ON PEOPLE. We live in some of the most ACTIVE times in anyone's living memory. It isn't a LACK of things to bring in diverse quantity. It's not lack of people. (Looks around) They were all here and writing like mad .....recently enough.

.....and the damndest thing... A lot of people warned for months this was coming. This was going to happen. If the nastiness and the vicious sniping didn't self regulate down....the good and intelligent people would just vote with their feet and walk back to observe rather than join the shooting gallery from the duck side of it.

I don't mind being a duck myself at times. It adds spice to life and I really don't care. I'm well past that and it took a long time to get that thick skin.....but sadly, I learned. I can't help but wonder.....if it was THIS vicious when I started as 100% unknown and building confidence from scratch in the ATS community....would I have gone through it again?

I don't know... I honestly don't. That's enough to sigh in resignation and wonder if this effort ...just writing this... was worth the time either. Perhaps having to ask that is the saddest statement of all.

Too many shills here and behind the scenes. That's what's wrong with ATS.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
The good old days of John Titor Learism are over its a new age now.

How can anything to do with John Lear be considered "the good old days"? Unless I have missed some sarcasm on your part. Lear is totally 100% full of ****. Always has been, always will be.

He isnt even a fun liar like L. Fletcher Prouty who at least told a great story.

Putting someone like Lear in our collective rear-view-mirror can only be a good thing.

I look at your join date and chuckled just a bit. That feeling is quite normal. It is not ATS that has changed so much as you. We all go through that feeling occassionally. In the beginning we benefit from ATS so much more than later on because it is like a information overload. Once we have been a part of it for a certain amount of time we have grown and it takes more for us to get that same feeling of discovery from the content we are offered. It is a mellowing that comes with age. I have slunk back into the shadows of ATS for a long time now watching and reading from a quiet corner coming out only when something really strikes out at me or compels me to share what I have to share. It's all good. just love it for what it is.

reply to post by NephraTari

I was here before but got caught up in a mass ban.

So I've seen it all and have even experienced it all first hand.

I was just out having a smoke reflecting on this and I've actually come to the conclusion that the curse also contains a blessing.

In the miasma of watered down, chunked down dribble compliments of the mainstream Internet culture - all you have to do, to differentiate yourself and your ideas, is create a totally awesome OP, capable of no make that certain to hit the front page and in the process get read by up to 100,000 people, or more in the long haul.

That's a powerful tool.

All the OP's for new threads used to be like that - each one like a work of art unto itself.

Therefore whoever is prepared to put in the work on the quality of the content will get rewarded, because compared to the rest of it all, quality is the kind of thing we all can absolutely agree upon because we all know it when we see it.

That's a pretty good web-based publishing medium if you ask me.

So I'm just going to ignore it, all the mainstream stuff and then periodically come out with a new thread OP that just ROCKS and raises the roof, which has been my desire all along - to share an epiphany, and laugh out loud together at the magnitude of the utter absurdity of all our prior ignorance.

So in reaction and response to what's changed about ATS, I'm just going to utilize it in a whole new way, so you'll see less of me, but what you do see when I show up is something incredible and utterly mind blowing. That's my new mission at ATS, to create such awesome content that you make the front page every time and get 100's of 1000's of people to consider the novel form that you've created and are offering up for consideration and contemplation and quality discussion.

Bu bye

My thoughts on a few things that I believe have rendered ATS ineffective as a tool for dissent and activism:

1. Nothing "top secret," let alone above, is actually posted or discussed here. In that respect, the site name is a misnomer, and could be construed as false advertising. When I first signed up here three years ago, I mistakenly thought the site name was a reliable indicator of the content here. You know, information transparency activism, like a Cryptome or Wikileaks, but focusing on discussion and analysis of information brought to light by members in a discussion forum format. I quickly learned that it was just another forum for discussing mainstream conspiracy theories and political issues, which was disappointing, but hey, those topics can be interesting and entertaining at least. I do believe now, though, that if anything actually "top secret" were posted here, it would be quickly removed by mods, which brings me to my second point.

2. The leadership here has totally and universally given into fear. This is rather unfortunate for a site whose apparent purpose is dissent and alternative thinking. It seems as if the leadership here is so afraid of stepping on the toes of the United States government that it actively removes any content that has even a remote possibility of creating adversity between the community and the government. So what, then, is even the point? (Yes I already know it's $$$, but I'll get to that later.) If a dissident only does and says what they are allowed to do and say, they aren't a dissident at all. They are clinging to one side of the box they are allowed to play in, but they are still in the box. The fear-induced censorship reached its most disturbing point when the mods went through and removed every single Obama-gun-image meme, just because the white house said they didn't want the image to be memed.

The problem with giving into fear is that once you do, once you allow threats to affect your behavior, you've legitimatized the threats, and empowered those who make them. You've essentially re-enforced the control structure by allowing it to grasp you. Fear has no place in a community like this.

3. This is not a criticism of ATS in particular, but of the keyboard warrior culture in general. Face it, you're not stepping on anyone's toes, or undermining the system in any way, by sitting here talking about conspiracies or posting your opinions about mainstream political issues to steer political discussions in a certain direction. No one has ever been converted to a different political position on an internet forum. I could see a thread with 20 replies in a row that all espouse an opinion on gun control that differs from mine, where all of the users starred each other and scratched each other's back, but it is not going to change my opinion or anyone else's one bit. You're honestly wasting your time by facilitating those kinds of discussions.

If you want to truly be influential, and see the change you would like to see, you have to actually acquire a skill set that allows you to provide value to others, and work your way up the rungs of whatever industry you're in such that you become a key decision maker or influential and inspiring person. Then use your position to whistleblow as much information as you possibly can and expose whatever injustices you find. Be the original source of information that others copy/paste onto internet forums and rant about. Those are the people the government fears, not the people who do the ranting. I guarantee you, Aaron Swartz didn't waste his time engaging in flame wars on the internet. He spent his time honing his skill set, and became a much more formidable adversary to the system than anyone here. If you want to have the influence to create the change you'd like to see, spend less time posting, and more time in school or developing your career. I will be the first to admit I need to take my own advice here as much as anyone.

reply to post by SilentKoala

I'm curious on something here and I hope it's taken as a serious question because I sure mean it to be one.

What is it on ATS that staff censor? Specifically in topic matter? Obviously, you wouldn't want to detail what you think they erase on sight...but the general topic and nature of it can be mentioned, can't it?

The only topics I KNOW I can't post about are drugs (and that's been easing for legal Rx types..at least a little I've noticed), Sandy Hook/CT Shooting (If specific people are named and made the focus...or theories are without basis to support allegation), Adolph Hitler as an individual person (if someone admires or likes the guy) and outright criminal activity.

I don't personally know of anything else I cannot post about on here and the above, in at least one case, I had to find by having one of my threads unceremoniously killed on the spot. Not nice...but fully understood when I asked for and got a patient explanation as to why it was done. I've seen staff personally reference other sites I KNOW have grey area stuff if not outright restricted material leaked from time to time. I'm careful referencing those myself for that reason. It borders close to that illegal activity category, IMO.

So, aside from the specific topics above (which I personally understand with each having it's own reasoning) what else would get a thread nuked for subject matter alone? I'm honestly not aware of any?

(I feel left out of being on everyone's crap list some days and hey, I try for perfection! What can I write a thread about to change that? lol)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


One thing I wish they WOULD make available - would be the IP addresses of past "guests" and visitors, like a VIP list including the Executive Office of the POTUS and the Holy Roman See @ the Vatican City in Rome - now there would be a thread for the ages..

Then people would KNOW that ATS really is, at some level ATS.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I think that is an amazing idea. I don't really care about front page and all that, but a personal commitment to quality is always a great thing to strive for. I think a person's approach to ATS really depends on what their reasons for being here are to begin with. For me it is more personal. ATS was a safe haven. A place where I could share things about my reality that most people just were not willing or able to understand. After that it became a resource of growth in addition to that. I hope that ATS can always be what it needs to be to those who seek it for whatever their reasons may be, barring anything that would be harmful to others of course.

It keeps people busy enough that they don't work to change things. It lets people vent to others who may feel the same way and keeps them complacent enough to prevent them from making changes in the world that need to be made. It's like a "release valve" on the water heater. When the pressure builds up too much, the release valve is triggered, it takes the pressure off and vents a little steam, then it's right back to the "regularly scheduled program".

There's a large group that keeps it inefficient. They don't deny ignorance, they embrace it. Their idea of "deny ignorance" is to go ahead and be ignorant but deny that they are. Luckily there are still a few that don't do that and make it worth the effort to keep trying.