Obama's Second Bill of Rights is coming

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by neo96

 

A true free market is impossible under capitalism and guaranteed by socialism.

this is so incredibly false its not even funny...socialism is anti-free...its pro-regulation...government has to REGULATE PEOPLE and BUSINESS in order to create equality...rob from peter to pay paul...exploit the have's to give to the have not's...

there is nothing "free" about that market...the government controls everything...period.


and as far as your continuous "gripe" with capitalism its mostly out of ignorance as you probably haven't ever experienced capitalism...the US hasn't been a true capitalist type of country for as long as I can remember....

mostly because its justice/legislative branch can be bought...which is a crime...but the ironic thing there is they regulate what crime is and who will be held accountable and of course they aren't going to call themselves criminals...its been corrupt ever since day one...

Power corrupts...and we have people in positions of power willing to sellout the system and protect the have's for their political security and a slice of the pie...now...this is all utilizing GOVERNMENT...as the main machine to exploit people...and socialism is simply a consolidation of power to government for EVERYTHING!

there is no independence in a socialist state. There is no room for excellence as were all chained together and can only progress as much as our weakest link.

And to FORCE people to be "nice" and "giving" it is a complete contradiction to being "nice" and "giving"...when you have to forcefully TAKE from others to provide for others you have lost every bit of moral/ethical ground you claim to stand on when you say you are being "giving"....because you are TAKING from someone else to do so...

The only way you can justify such a claim is to pretend and assume that anyone who has anything got so illegally and by exploiting others...which is a fallacy. Some yes, a lot yes...but ALL ??? absolutely not. When you write laws...its applies to ALL...

reply to post by seabag

to do their own work quietly and to earn their own living.

n this Gospel episode Jesus and his disciples travel to Jerusalem for Passover, where he expels the money changers from the Temple, accusing them of turning the Temple into a den of thieves through their commercial activities.[1][2] In the Gospel of John Jesus refers to the Temple as “my Father’s house” thus in some views making a claim to being the Son of God[3] though it is common in the Abrahamic religions to refer to God as God the Father.

wiki

"Den of thieves through their commercial activities" Jesus was indeed a Socialist.
You can't see it because you refuse to understand Socialism. There is nothing more self reliant than Socialism.

reply to post by Ghost375

It's hilarious. You're so against people being leeches, but ALL of those things are required for someone to have a job nowadays. You won't be hired if you don't have a residence. You won't be hired if you don't have an education. And the first 2 directly ensure people have to work. Those rights ensure people are NOT leeches. You have to look at the whole picture, not one part of it. Those rights are all about getting people to be productive members of society.

How did we ever get by before government provided for our every need??

I'm not going to address every point because obviously none of them are true; you're exaggerating.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by XPLodER

 

where jesus would want you to care about the suffering of the poor.

Are you REALLY making the case that Jesus would be a socialist??

You should be ashamed, sir.

Would Jesus legislate away a percentage of my salary for someone who chooses not to work?

Thessalonians 3:10-12:

"If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work but busybodies. Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their own work quietly and to earn their own living."

I think you need to go back to bible study.

A LIVEABLE WORKING WAGE,

A chance to work for enough money to survive and not work for nothing but a handfull of gruel

you really are selfish and greedy arent you.

read it again,

a livable wage,

why should any man work for the benifit of an "owner" if their wages will not pay for the basics human need to survive.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

a fair days work for a fair days pay?????????????????

your twisted idea is a modern form of slavery where the "little people" work to starve slowly,

this is not justice, its not even Christian

you have lost the meaning of the word charity

xploder

reply to post by Kali74

You can't see it because you refuse to understand Socialism. There is nothing more self reliant than Socialism.

I know...I know...none of us know the true definition and greatness of socialism. Only the truly enlightened get it!

Don't you find it strange that 75% of the country is wrong about Obama being a socialist while you're right?

By the way, I quoted the bible and you quoted Wikipedia.

reply to post by seabag


Weren't you Seabag , Employed in a Socialist Organization, the US Military.

Cruising the World, while I paid your Wages?

reply to post by XPLodER

why should any man work for the benifit of an "owner" if their wages will not pay for the basics human need to survive.

The term "living wage" is subjective. Nobody works for the benefit of the owner. Have you ever heard of hard work, promotions, roommates, conserving, living within your means, personal responsibility, etc? Are those foreign terms to you?

Nobody is entitle to any certain lifestyle. The constitution provides a level playing field and freedom. Whether you succeed or not is up to you. Apparently you want to blame others for your lack of success.

Just a observation on what Socialism is or isn't....it doesn't matter. Really...

In reality there is no such thing as socialism, communism, monarchy, democracy, etc. for any extended time or for any meaningful depth into the culture. You simply have people in power who may have claimed one form or another at one time (or still claim it for political expediency) but once they have solidified their hold, they could care less about the means. It all ends up looking pretty much the same. What that "same" is, is plastered in a zillion threads on ATS so I will not bother here.

The discussion does makes for a lively academic exercise though.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by seabag

 

Weren't you Seabag , Employed in a Socialist Organization, the US Military.

Cruising the World, while I paid your Wages?

So the military is socialist?

Kali is going to have to get you up to speed!

And you're welcome for my service...it was my pleasure.

reply to post by Sly1one


Bastiat understood the meaning of Socialism, he knew it to mean worker ownership of the means of production. His statement about government is correct but he was referring to Monarchy not Socialism. He wasn't fond of Socialism for sure, but he certainly did not confuse it with government.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by XPLodER

 

why should any man work for the benifit of an "owner" if their wages will not pay for the basics human need to survive.

The term "living wage" is subjective. Nobody works for the benefit of the owner. Have you ever heard of hard work, promotions, roommates, conserving, living within your means, personal responsibility, etc? Are those foreign terms to you?

Nobody is entitle to any certain lifestyle. The constitution provides a level playing field and freedom. Whether you succeed or not is up to you. Apparently you want to blame others for your lack of success.

the point you tryed to make is people should work or die,
my point is if people work should they not at least earn enough to survive?

A LIVING WAGE?

this isnt about "being idle or being lazy"

this is about exploitation,
why WOULD anyone work at a job where you cant survive on the wage
if a fair days work for a fair days pay was really true?

xploder

reply to post by seabag


I didn't say anything about the greatness of Socialism, whether it's a good or bad thing is personal taste. I'm only correcting the misuse of the word. It isn't my fault 75% of Americans don't know what it actually is, but I'm hardly surprised.

And yes I did use wiki, problem? Was it incorrect?

reply to post by seabag

The term "living wage" is subjective.

i can asure you its not subjective when you have to decide weather you buy food OR medicine,
and you work hard and are reliable at work.

the only thiong subjective here is your view on the facts of life,

a fair days work should equal a fair days pay.

in maths this means,
you earn even a dollar more than it costs you to survive without undue hardship.

wages have stayed static for a decade while costs for living have increased,

ceo and shareholder profits climb while the wage stagnated,

how does someone working hard ALTER ANY OF THESE FACTS?

xploder

Obama is The Alpha Dog in Washington right now. The GOP is still in intensive care following the Election. President Obama is playing chess..

reply to post by seabag


this illustrates my point very nicely

A Quarter Of Jobs In America Pay Below The Federal Poverty Line

www.zerohedge.com...

i do expect you to realise that your lazy people deserve to die thinking doent take into account people who want to work for a living.

only that wage wont PAY for their living.

xploder

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by seabag

 

Weren't you Seabag , Employed in a Socialist Organization, the US Military.

Cruising the World, while I paid your Wages?

The difference is Seabag and the military actually work for their money.

You pay the defense budget?

Really must be one of those evil billionaires.

The Government telling us how WE want to live. I agree with some of the ideas listed. In fact WE have some of these ideas in play already in America. I did not vote for President Obama but I Respect the Office. Its my opinion he should set aside gun control *for a little while. And puts his main focus on social issues. If not, he will use all 4 years of his last term in office getting a gun control bill passed .years

reply to post by SubTruth


But who wrote history???? The winners.

reply to post by seabag



*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation.

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation.

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living.

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad.

*The right of every family to a decent home.

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health.

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident and unemployment.

*The right to a good education.




Dont we allready have these rights? The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. In one form or another it seems the goverment has allready tried to GIVE us these rights.

reply to post by XPLodER


Does your country supply you with a home? Does your country actually hand out homes to all it's citizens?

No, it doesn't.