service men and women will fire upon civilians if ordered

reply to post by TDawgRex


While I respect what your saying and agree, I have to say that it will be wether or not you violate me and my family's rights first! If you think I am going to allow you to bust into my home and lets say disarm me with out a single round fired your wrong! I have already accepted that fact that my wife two young boys and my self will take as many of them as we possibly can before they get us! I have discussed this with them all and we choose to die free than be a slave. So when the time comes, those who violate my rights, may as well be the ones who fired first.

I would like to ad that I am not a hostel man, but I am sick and tired of the blatant disregard for compassion for the people who believe in there rights. The constitution means everything to me, and I have drawn the line in the sand with the gun issue!! I honestly pray to god for everyones sake, including the local PD that they don't try to take the guns. I honestly feel that there will be bodies every where and a great deal of them will be police. I just really hope it does not come to that point.

The "Military" is made up of individuals. It is not a monolith. However, they share an oath in common; and I think that oath for the most part is sacrosanct. I do not fear our military, and in fact think that if things go seriously sideways, they would be there to fix it.

Lets change the word 'Citizens' to 'humans. If it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck then it's a duck - if it walks like a human & talks like a human then it's a human.

Unfortunately our governments don't train our soldiers like they teach our children.

reply to post by oasisjack




Big fan of people who don't know # about how the military actually works telling me I "will" shoot civilians....get so tired of this unsubstantiated bull#...

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by yourmaker

 

I didn,t say imulate them.I talked about what happen in their ranks.If your reply is in anyway a look into your mind,I feel very very sorry for you.

Feel sorry. I'm doing my best to observe the world objectively.

Defection runs the risk of being instantly ostracized amongst foreign terrorist infiltrators.
They would open up 30 Guantanamo's just for them. Open season for psychopaths.

This could go a much smoother route. Rather then wide-scale conflict, it needs to be personal.
The game needs to be put to an end and all of the players need to be cut one by one.

This is a battle of information and counter-intelligence that's being turned into open warfare because it's getting too hot to handle.

reply to post by yourmaker


Yeaaah,but I would rather stay on topic.



...Man...

Originally posted by 200Plus
reply to post by oasisjack

 

Were you with us in Al Mansour when we could only sit in a bunker while being mortared? We couldn't fire counter-battery because rounds were coming from a CIVILIAN neighborhood.

Were you with us in Al Hilla when we could only sit in a bunker while being mortared? We couldn't fire counter-battery because rounds were coming from a CIVILIAN neighborhood.

Were you with us in An Najaf when we could only sit in a bunker while being mortared? We couldn't fire counter-battery because rounds were coming from a CIVILIAN neighborhood.

Were you with us in Baghdad, when a "civilian" could empty a magazine on us and drop the weapon and claim to be unarmed?

Contrary to what you think you know, we just don't go around shooting civilians. My soldiers had more "cultural awareness" classes than they had range time prior to some deployments.

Soldiers have a job. We wear a uniform to work. We are not robots that simply accept orders and execute without remorse.

Some soldiers will be willing to fire on civilians and some soldiers will turn their guns on former comrades. Each soldier will make that decision for themselves, just like each civilian will do the same.

edit on 30-1-2013 by 200Plus because: (no reason given)

Couldnt have said it better.

I strongly believe that our brothers and sisters serving wouldnt think of shooting an American, yea its happened in the past, but this is today, with a 100% volunteer force. Although some joined because of lies and were fed bs, most joined for the experience and to do something with their lives.

Why would someone join to protect the freedoms of their family and friends only to turn around and kill those they enlisted for.

We are not the mindless killing machines you see in the movies and news reports. Most of us do have common sense. We are no different than civillians,.

If you can go through a deployment, and or an enlistment and still be a sheep, then you have to be mentally challenged.

Originally posted by jimmiec
There are 21.5 million veterans in America. A lot of those have grandchildren. They are not on the internet, they are not in the media. Any threat of violence that would effect their children would be met with unbridled fury. The military is made up of Constitution loving citizens. While in the beginning it may well be that they would be misinformed, it would not stay that way.

I'm a veteran and I can tell you your view of military servicemembers is wrong. I'm sure I wasn't alone in that I didn't even know what the Constitution said while serving.

The military for many of its members is just a job we happened to qualify for after high school. Something to keep us from working at Burger King. There's no unwaivering loyalty and all that other patriotic crap many of you who never been in the military think.

Some of the biggest and worst criminals join the military. There are probably still plenty of "Go to war or go to jail" members in. We were disgusting and thuggish...the enlisted that is. Of course officers are held to a different standard, but as an enlisted I've seen it all.

The OP is correct....soldiers will fire on U.S. citizens no question about it. The citizens would be labeled as terrorists or whatever noun and the soldiers will follow orders. Point blank! They would keep any units involved isolated from contact with the outside world and media (easily done) and feed them what they want them to know.

reply to post by oasisjack


There will be instances where the military WILL fire on American citizens. Obama already wants officers that will perform this horrible act. But then there is the patriots like me. I am currently enlisting the armed forces but I will NEVER fire on an American. They can lock me away, shoot me, or do whatever but I am not doing this. I know many others that feel the same way. The only difference between a soldier and patriot is that a soldier fights for his government and a patriot fights for his people.

Originally posted by beezzer
As long as people take the attitude that it is the evil soldier against the hapless civilian, then bad things may occur.

Instead of dividing, why not try uniting?

The indoctrination begins in bootcamp. We're told we're soldiers and disciplined, while the others are civilians, undisciplined, even unclean and darn near uncivilized.

When we spoke of civilians we already spoke of them with distaste and distrust. That starts from basic training.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

They are trained to follow the chain of command. Like previously posted, if they were told a group of individuals were terrorists or whatever was fashionable at the time, do you not think they would follow orders and take them out? Or is the average army grunt able to wait, send out an intelligence team and come to their own conclusion?

Not everyone would, but, with the threat of being discharged/jailed, wouldn't you? (Remember, you don't know they are bad or good, you are just told.)

Well, that is a valid point and the answer comes back to "it depends." What you may also not realize that we are also trained on the rules of war, the convention, and the concept of disobeying unlawful orders. The Naval Academy even way back when I was a Mid had many, many courses on the ethics of war and this very subject. I agree that, for even someone who would refuse an order that contravened the Constitution, that at the time the situation may not be as clear and cut and dry as many assume.

OTOH, in response to your silly emoticon, yes, if a soldier is shown a bunch of women and children lined up against a wall and ordered to shoot them, he is expected to recognize that as an unlawful order and not only refuse to do it, but stop the culprit in question.

The issue is not that soldiers will obey unlawful orders, but that will they be able to recognize the unlawful ones.

edit on 30-1-2013 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

Thing is, that unlawful order can very quickly be changed to a LAWFUL order. We aren't talking about a few rogue officers, we're talking about orders from the POTUS.

Though all this maybe meaningless...I believe if there were ever a uprising the soldiers would be sent home if they wouldn't follow orders and they would then bring in soldiers fromt he U.N. and allow them to use American weaponry against us.

Our soldiers and veterans would then be delegated to guerilla warfare with small arms.

reply to post by oasisjack


If you take the mean iq of the group of soldiers which outfit the u.s. army, the largest branch with soldiers, you'll see a very small point percentage. Of course your going to have easily manipulated kids essentially which will do as their told. This being said, you still have to ponder, this.... Brainwashing, propoganda works both ways. The hearts and minds are being broken, and built up with the invention of the internet. Why do you think soldiers are killing themselves on a daily basis. Why do you think there is now MILSPEC anti-suicide spray? Anti-Suicide ironically, is not "Pro-Homicide." One blast of that good stuff puts a soldier into a new realm of thought and feeling, and they are benign and no longer killers; they are set free from the death machine Inc.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Thing is, that unlawful order can very quickly be changed to a LAWFUL order. We aren't talking about a few rogue officers, we're talking about orders from the POTUS.

Though all this maybe meaningless...I believe if there were ever a uprising the soldiers would be sent home if they wouldn't follow orders and they would then bring in soldiers fromt he U.N. and allow them to use American weaponry against us.

Our soldiers and veterans would then be delegated to guerilla warfare with small arms.

Even an order from POTUS could be considered unlawful.

Has anyone heard the term "FRAGGING"? I only ask because this is also what is done to disloyal officers who constitute a threat to the unit or in this case the country.Combat arms are VERY FIERCELY nationallistic about America.We FAR out number the duds who violate the ROE.
Are you aware there are FAR more elite soldiers out of service than in?
If a battalion couldn't hold an Iraqi city they sure as hell couldn't hold a large American metroplex.
They would face people as skilled as they are with better arms at hand

Has anyone heard the term "FRAGGING"? I only ask because this is also what is done to disloyal officers who constitute a threat to the unit or in this case the country.Combat arms are VERY FIERCELY nationallistic about America.We FAR out number the duds who violate the ROE.
Are you aware there are FAR more elite soldiers out of service than in?
If a battalion couldn't hold an Iraqi city they sure as hell couldn't hold a large American metroplex.
They would face people as skilled as they are with better arms at hand

You presuppose that freedom fighters would fight the military, which consists of OUR children not Obama's or any other of tptb. What makes you think that patriots would not hunt down Senators, Congressmen, Mayors, Governors, etc. and take out the very few who are fueling this? You believe they couldn't find all the Bilderburgers? Why would any rational person think we would shoot our own kids? You put too much faith in your drones and they will be your downfall!

Originally posted by Dustytoad
reply to post by EL1A5

 

you deleted your post.. ?

If you had a double post you should leave one of them there.

I agree with Wrabbit by the way.. It's one of the reasons they are gaining info on all of our activities.. I'd want to know who would potentially be violent., and so do they..

We are coming into very complicated times, and it's more important every day to know for sure where exactly your morals lie in all conceivable situations.

Be Good guys.

edit on 1/30/2013 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)

Ummm....I think they're smarter than that....By they're I mean TPTB. Those that bluster and spew bravely about what they will do and in what circumstance are merely venting. These are not indicative of the quiet seriousness and awake, yet silent, preperation that is taking place all over this country. There is absolutely no way for TPTB to gauge potential as per reaction to martial law or SHTF scenario's. My experiance would indicate that it is precisely those who remain silent yet vigilent that would stand up and be counted, while the blusterers would disappear into the settling dust of their own winded flight.
This becomes obvious when you consider the attempt at registeries for weapons and this is where lines will be and are being drawn in a popular revolt with the single syllable....no. Be prepared for the, I sold that a long time ago, or I'm sorry those were stolen, or I destroyed those myself. When you attempt to criminalize rights, then good and bad have transposed and good men are criminalized for the exercise of right and freedom yet are forced to wear the title.....patriot.

YouSir

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Originally posted by YouSir

Originally posted by Dustytoad
reply to post by EL1A5

 

you deleted your post.. ?

If you had a double post you should leave one of them there.

I agree with Wrabbit by the way.. It's one of the reasons they are gaining info on all of our activities.. I'd want to know who would potentially be violent., and so do they..

We are coming into very complicated times, and it's more important every day to know for sure where exactly your morals lie in all conceivable situations.

Be Good guys.

edit on 1/30/2013 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)

Ummm....I think they're smarter than that....By they're I mean TPTB. Those that bluster and spew bravely about what they will do and in what circumstance are merely venting. These are not indicative of the quiet seriousness and awake, yet silent, preperation that is taking place all over this country. There is absolutely no way for TPTB to gauge potential as per reaction to martial law or SHTF scenario's. My experiance would indicate that it is precisely those who remain silent yet vigilent that would stand up and be counted, while the blusterers would disappear into the settling dust of their own winded flight.
This becomes obvious when you consider the attempt at registeries for weapons and this is where lines will be and are being drawn in a popular revolt with the single syllable....no. Be prepared for the, I sold that a long time ago, or I'm sorry those were stolen, or I destroyed those myself. When you attempt to criminalize rights, then good and bad have transposed and good men are criminalized for the exercise of right and freedom yet are forced to wear the title.....patriot.

YouSir

I think it comes down to Why?

If you wanted to convince all soldiers to fire on Americans here in the US what would you need to offer them?
Most likely money wouldn't be worthwhile.

So I figured out this, what if they offered them food/water and a safe place to live + protection + for them and their family as long as they continued to fire on civilians?

What wouldn't you do to protect your kids?

So I'm guessing they will offer them FEMA camps, or bunkers or something for there families and a safe place, when the day comes that the whole system collapses. Otherwise I couldn't see a bunch of soldiers wanting to go around fighting civilized Americans.

I mentioned this exact thing in a thread the other day, and you are spot on. It will be important for anyone who wishes to make a power grab in the US, which is what I think is coming, they will have to do many things, two of the main things being limiting or completely taking away arms, so the public cannot defend themselves adequately...And second, labelling true Patriots as terrorists, thus associating them with a stigma that has been cultivated from the Bush administration up to the present...It is one thing to kill civilians, as you say, but another thing completely to kill terrorists. There will be some military members who still will not comply, but enough will. People don't think it will happen, but there very well could be a war of the people against the government and their forces.