Unfair courts in this craphole country!

This rant is based on the unfair way they treat you when you enter a court room. Specially child support court. You are NOT treated innocent until proven guilty. They talk down to you and try to humiliate you in front of God and everyone.
I have a landscaping business for 11 years. We went to 1 million in sales at our best year about four years ago. My child support was set up at 360 prior to this awesome sales year.
My problem is that economy started to tank and over the past three years i have gone from 5 employees to 1. I had a review to see if it would go up or down and they wanted my tax records. Well we have a tax extension every year and i told the child enforc. agency that they would not be done until sept. They went ahead and did some "average" that a landscape owner should make and my support went to 530. I was having trouvle keeping the 360 payment above water,now they broke my back.
Since then i went into arrears over the course of a few months to the tune of 2100. They upped my payment to 580 so as to pay 50 towards arrears. They set it up for a continuing court date on the 28th of each month and said i had to have my monies paid by the 20th. I explained that invoices go out on 15th and i dont even start getting payments till after the 20th and they are giving me a 6-8 day window to get it paid. Not to mention it takes two days for mail to get payment to office.
Well this month i paid 250 mailed out on 20th and did not get other 330 until 24th. I mailed check out and on court date it still hadnt cleared. I told them it is there it just needs to be cleared. She claimed that it would not clear by thursday and asked i be incarcerated. Judge offered electronic monitoring that i have to go get put on this morning. They are gonna charge me 10 bucks a day for 60 days to wear this #. Guess what the check cleared last night so they have the whole payment they asked for, but i have to be booked,mug shot took,and have this on my record. Why was i not allowed the full month and how wrong is this.
I might add when i was at 360 payment i did get behind once or twice but payment got caught up and pay history was stellar compared to now. I also will add i am not a dead beat dad. I get my son way more than the court ordered weekends, we have a great relationship, and i get along well with his mother for the most part! What can i do? I am fuming!

Can you put spaces in between your paragraphs? This wall of text is hard to read.

Ive been in the same boat. What you need to do is file for a modification. Good luck.

reply to post by earthart


Well...another "victim" of the child support enforcement!

Nice rant...but you can do nothing aside from requesting another hearing...which will take months...and then nothing will happen!

You are screwed...plain and simple!

Welcome to the real debtors prison!

Sorry to hear about your situation, I don't even know what I'd do...

I just don't understand how slamming someone who owes money or needs to pay childsupport with MORE fines will help them? Do they think anyone in that situation has 2 million in their account and just doesn't want to hand anything over?

I cant even begin to put into words how backwards and retarded this is...

I know a father of a 17 year old that has not paid since the kid was 2, and the court system has done nothing to him. It's just weird when I hear about people getting in trouble for not paying when I know so many that don't and nothing is ever done.

I wonder how they pick out people to go after.

There may be another option for you.
Are you "friendly" with the mom? If so, SHE can actually request a lowering of the support. Believe it or not, there are some of us out there, that know the system is terrible.

In our state, we actually had a lawyer write up an agreement, for how much he would pay per month, and opted out of the FOC system all together. It actually went pretty well right up til the end. If things don't work out, you can opt back in after a year or so.

Might be worth talking to her about?

Allrighty, something I've had experience with, Family Courts..

1) You are guilty until proven innocent in Family Court, the burden of proof is upon the defendant to prove their innocence, it is NOT a criminal court, and therefore criminal procedures do not apply. It is CIVIL court. There is a distinction, and you need to understand that.

2) The laws are written in such a way that you have to pay very very close attention to wording. And as such, motions are your friend.

3) learn how to file motions, lots and lots of motions, these courts use them for almost everything..

All of that aside, rant away, but realize you really don't want anyone finding that rant, it can and will be used against you if someone you know sends it on to the opposing party. There is no expectation of due process in Family Court, and it's most times so archaic that even lawyers have a hard time picking out all the subtle nuances.

Good luck, keep thy temper in check, in public.. best advice I was ever given..

Before I start, let me say that I might be doing a whole thread about beating the 'Contempt of court' charge each and every time like I've done many times at a later date.

Now let's break down your problem.

This rant is based on the unfair way they treat you when you enter a court room. Specially child support court. You are NOT treated innocent until proven guilty. They talk down to you and try to humiliate you in front of God and everyone.

Yes they do. In every court, in every State. This is designed to make you feel bad about being a 'deadbeat'.

I have a landscaping business for 11 years. We went to 1 million in sales at our best year about four years ago. My child support was set up at 360 prior to this awesome sales year.

This is problem # 1 - You told the court what you have and own. You should NEVER do that. The court is your ENEMY so why give them information? The court now knows that they have a 'live one' in their clutches.

My problem is that economy started to tank and over the past three years i have gone from 5 employees to 1. I had a review to see if it would go up or down and they wanted my tax records. Well we have a tax extension every year and i told the child enforc. agency that they would not be done until sept.

They do not care, they just want to see what you really make to up your payments accordingly. As problem # 1 listed above, you should NEVER give them information that can sink you, you ONLY give them information that can HELP you.

When it comes to child support, the WORST you LOOK and ARE the better it is for you!

They went ahead and did some "average" that a landscape owner should make and my support went to 530. I was having trouble keeping the 360 payment above water,now they broke my back.

$530 a week? A month? Once again, stop being an OWNER of ANYTHING. Also, stop shouting being an owner of anything, as proud as you are of the business you built, it is REALLY BAD when it comes to child support.

Since then i went into arrears over the course of a few months to the tune of 2100. They upped my payment to 580 so as to pay 50 towards arrears. They set it up for a continuing court date on the 28th of each month and said i had to have my monies paid by the 20th. I explained that invoices go out on 15th and i dont even start getting payments till after the 20th and they are giving me a 6-8 day window to get it paid. Not to mention it takes two days for mail to get payment to office.

You keep giving these btards information that is NONE of their business. Please stop doing so and learn the saying 'loose lips sink ships'. As of right now everything you are going through is your very own fault.

Well this month i paid 250 mailed out on 20th and did not get other 330 until 24th. I mailed check out and on court date it still hadnt cleared. I told them it is there it just needs to be cleared. She claimed that it would not clear by thursday and asked i be incarcerated.

By 'she' I take it is the person representing 'the State' correct? Once again, she does not care, even if you paid these btards, she still wants you in jail as you already found out. This is a GOOD thing that you found out now as you will see in my closing.

Judge offered electronic monitoring that i have to go get put on this morning. They are gonna charge me 10 bucks a day for 60 days to wear this #. Guess what the check cleared last night so they have the whole payment they asked for, but i have to be booked,mug shot took,and have this on my record. Why was i not allowed the full month and how wrong is this.

I do not know in what State you are but most child support 'courts' are not really courts, it is a 'hearing office'. The person you appear in front of is NOT A JUDGE but a regular attorney ACTING as a HEARING OFFICER.

Take a look at your clerk of court's website and see if that person is in fact a judge. This is important as this person can ONLY make recommendations (which the real judge will usually rubberstamp until you learn)

If I was in your shoes, I WOULD NOT GO to get any tracking, warrant be dammed!

You paid, and the check cleared. I would throw a motion in that file quick, a copy delivered to the REAL JUDGE and a copy delivered to the support enforcement 'lawyers' & go from there.

I might add when i was at 360 payment i did get behind once or twice but payment got caught up and pay history was stellar compared to now. I also will add i am not a dead beat dad. I get my son way more than the court ordered weekends, we have a great relationship, and i get along well with his mother for the most part! What can i do? I am fuming!

The hearing officer does not care how close of a relationship you have with your son. Does not care how 'stellar' you have paid in the past.

All they care about is the money.

Continued...

They do not care about your relationship with your son either.

As a matter of fact, I'm going to put a thread together that will show people in our situation HOW to beat them at their own game each and every time with resources etc.

And before people start flaming and calling me a dead beat dad... Yes, I am battling a child support case for a child that is NOT MINE - DNA PROVEN.

Some resources to get you started

J. J. Luna's How to be invisible - Website

How to be invisible book on Amazon

Use this to learn how to structure your business to not be 'your business' anymore while keeping full control of it. I found this book in my local library so you might want to take a look there.

The ANTI Terrorist handbook

The Anti Terrorist is quite informative, jam packed full of important information AND a funny MOFO - He even has a you tube channel



Take a look at Tactikalguy's youtube channel also



Last and MOST important. Learn your NEW RELIGION!!! REALLY, REALLY, REALLY LEARN THIS LIKE YOU HAVE NEVER LEARNED SOMETHING BEFORE!!!!!

The RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURES FOR YOUR STATE

Your state should have something like this:

Florida Rules of Civil Procedure

Also, learn what happens is you decided NOT to go to court.

In my State, they put a warrant out for your arrest but the warrant MUST have a purge amount which is the amount that it takes to quash the warrant. You then go to the courthouse, pay it off and then pass by the hearings officer's office and wave!

reply to post by earthart


My ex only paid child support when he was forced to to stay
out of jail.He owes me over $18,000.00 in back support and
I know that I will never get a dime of it.My 'child' is almost 38
now.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by earthart

 

My ex only paid child support when he was forced to to stay
out of jail.He owes me over $18,000.00 in back support and
I know that I will never get a dime of it.My 'child' is almost 38
now.

over 20,000 here and he's not been in jail.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by earthart

 

My ex only paid child support when he was forced to to stay
out of jail.He owes me over $18,000.00 in back support and
I know that I will never get a dime of it.My 'child' is almost 38
now.

So you are admitting that there are 'debtor's prisons' in the land of the free?

reply to post by vkey08


The finding the rant part depends on state law. Not all states allow internet activity as evidence.

reply to post by greenovni


Teaching people how to skip out on providing for your kids. What a stellar person you are.

I have had to deal with the Office of Child Support Enforcement (O.C.S.E.) and it's taken me a long time to come too this conclusion, over 12 years to be exact. The lawyers use our children in negotiations to entrap the Fathers and deceive the Mother, while the children are cannon fodder.

"It is the family courts and lawyers destroying the families pitting husband against wife (vice-versa), offering the family no true source of help, or reasonable solution."

"In 1975, President Ford (U.S.) succumbed to pressure from bar associations and feminist groups and created the Office of Child Support Enforcement (O.C.S.E.), warning that it constituted an unwarranted “federal intrusion into the lives of families” and the responsibilities of states. The size of the program increased tenfold from 1978 to 1998." (9)

www.canadiancrc.com...
(Expose) The Myth of Deadbeat Dads

"Though child-support enforcement formally falls within the executive branch, the linchpin of the system is the family court, a secretive and little-understood institution." (13)

"Most people assume that collections made through enforcement agencies involve arrearages or target those people who would not otherwise pay. But this is not the case. To collect these federal funds states (and provinces) must channel all child-support payments, including those not in arrears, through their criminal enforcement machinery. This both further criminalizes the fathers and enables the government to inflate the amount of collections it makes, which helps divert attention from fact that the program operates at a consistent loss." (28)

Raising your child requires being a part of their lives (primary)! Not financial or technical (secondary) ones, they‘re children for crying out loud! Both parents are more valuable to them than money.

Financial and Technical?! Smells like government to me.

You will hear a lot of people say "take it to court, hire a lawyer, go through legal aid, there are good lawyers out there you just need to look harder, this agency is alot better than that agency, the pendulum is starting to swing in favor of the men now, it's for your children, it's in their best interest... Put it to rest!"

It’s really unsettling, almost a form of Stockholm syndrome, to be held hostage and to cling to the captors while buying into their false set of rules.

Who Judges the Judges and the lawmakers when they make mistakes or break the law? When they get it wrong due to their lack of know how based on their ignorance as a result of their greed, where do we turn when our so called Justice is in-fact the one persecuting us, how can we call this JUSTICE!

They knew what they were doing even before 1808, the earliest American support case was Stanton vs. Wilson. Moral duty was kicked to the curb, Legal obligation was brought in, they twisted the LAW.

www.child-support-laws-state-by-state.com...
Child Support Laws State by State

I choose not to cooperate with these lying, thieving criminals anymore, they can throw me in jail, you can call me a deadbeat, you can take away this so called b.s. freedom... games over! I'm through playing here. I don’t need anyone to dictate to me what my responsibilities are!

I honoured my end of the agreement, the judicial government didn't, what are the courts going to say too me when my kid(s) are dead "we're sorry", ya you see where that gets ya!

"You can't whitewash it, you can't convince me that I just have to work harder to get through it, been there done that thrice over. The program has to change." The system is broken!

Here is another valuable source of information please make this go viral:

www.globalresearch.ca...
(Global Research) America’s Corrupt Legal System

I hope these links work, If they don't, then search by name reference. Please mods allow this post, for your families and ours.

God bless, and peace

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by greenovni

 

Teaching people how to skip out on providing for your kids. What a stellar person you are.

Yes, I am quite stellar! Let me tell you why. Revolutionaries come in all kinds of different colors and use all kinds of different methods.

I teach those that are willing to listen how to get out of the clutches of a broken system that does NOT care about children, just cash payments.

I show these people that the 'judge' is not a real judge. That the system is broken and how to use the LAW that are currently on the books to claim their freedom back.

I am sure that YOU are NOT anti-freedom, right?

The OP said that he has a stellar payment record and continues to pay so I am not showing him how to avoid his responsibilities. I am just giving him some resources to get the enemy off his back!

In my situation, I was hauled into court when I was 17 years old because I made the mistake of having a 1 night stand with a 26 year old woman that got me drunk and called me a FAG because I would not sleep with her inb front of everyone.

Peer pressure + my misguided 'male ego' had me do the deed.

After I was forced by the court to 'pay child support' and my mother FORCED me to sign a birth certificate (after being put on child support) this femi-nazi b*tch from hell told me that the kid was not mine!

A DNA test later confirmed that the child is NOT mine like and then this is what the court said:

"You don't have to be the bio dad to be the "LEGAL" dad" so you are stuck with this for life! and "It is in the best interest of the child that counts"

Like this poor sap



or this other poor sap



How can it be in the best interest of the child when I have never ONCE been to a school function, birthday party, xmas, learning to walk occasion etc. I just DO NOT CARE about this child that is not mine. Period!

So I learned the law, backward, forwards and sideways...

Then I got picked up for a 'contempt of court' warrant in 2007. Contempt of court is the actual charge that you will get for not paying child support. You see, not paying is not a crime! But having contempt of the kangaroo court they have going on is.

This is exactly what happened in 2007.

They picked me up on the warrant because I failed to see how much the 'purge amount' was due to being busy taking care of my REAL kids.

So the cop came to my house about 7 PM and knocked on the door. As soon as I saw him, I knew what it was for.

I get thrown into my local jail with real criminals and about 15 other people there for child support and right then and there I decided to 'rock the court' one last time. You see, I knew I was going to be released in the morning without giving them a penny.

So I went into teaching mode.

You would be surprised of how much law inmates actually know and teach each other so during 'rec time' (TV time, play cards, socializing time) I started walking around and asking every single inmate if they were there for child support and word started going around that I 'knew something' so in about 10 minutes I had a table with 15 inmates and myself.

After listening to their stories I told them that I knew how to beat contempt of court. GUARANTEED!

I told them all how it was done and told them that this is so fool proof that if it did not work, they had the right to beat me up when we got back to jail from the courthouse in the morning.

I gave a guarantee with my own personal safety on the line.

The next day the coppers woke those that were going to court that day at 4 AM and my 'crew' was ready.

We arrived in shackles at the court house and everyone is nervous except me since I've done this before.

They called the first guy up and he did exactly what I told him to do including asking the judge if he was a "judge or a hearing officer".

When his hearing was over, and they brought him back down, the man was beaming and as soon after they put him back in the cell, all that came out of his mouth was "It works and I was just ORDERED to be released".

Everyone in the cell that was there for CS got ready to fight the beast while being in shackles...

I was called in 2nd to go up "to the judge" and below is the story as it happened in my case.

Continued...

Once they brought me upstairs, they go through the motions where the 'lawyer' for the State said how much I "owed" and that I failed to make any payments at all in "clear violation of this court's order".

So I let them go through their motions and then this FAT, femi-nazi that was representing the State has the audacity of trying to prove contempt of court by saying the following sentence:

"Mr. Greenovni looks very well fed, it is obvious that if he has money to eat, he has money to support his (fake) child! You must find him in contempt of court your honor!"

That was enough! I do not take kindly to people screaming at me so I went on the offensive, handcuffs, shakles and all!

The 'lawyer' for the State looked kind of like this



This is important so you can visualize what happened next.

Once she said that I looked well fed, I looked at her across the table right in the eye and said:

"Your honor, if being so called well fed is a sign of wealth, Ms chubby (not her real name), MUST be a billionaire!"

The cop that was behind me nearly started laughing out loud, so did the "judge". The so called 'lawyer' for the state became belligerent, screaming at me at the top of her lungs that I WAS in contempt of court! That I was going to spend 180 days in jail for that remark that CLEARLY shows my contempt for the court etc etc etc

I was on the offensive then so I asked the judge if he was a real judge or simply a hearing officer. (I already knew the answer) I also asked the 'lawyer' if she was a real lawyer or a 'case worker' (I already knew the answer to this too.

Once they both answered that they were simply a hearing officer and a case worker I then proceeded to inform them that I was thinking of hitting both of them with a 1983 lawsuit.

If you don't know what a 1983 is, here is a short description:

A Section 1983 lawsuit is a means for bringing civil claim against government officials and government agencies for violations of the U.S. Constitution and other federal laws. It is a type of civil rights lawsuit and is based on an 1871 law known as Section 1983 of Title 42 of United States Code. That law was designed to provide remedies for violations of federally protected rights committed by persons acting by or on behalf of a state governmental entity (also referred to as “under the color of state law”)

Source

Their tune changed instantly! The hearing officer was the coolest person I've ever seen in a court of law and actually listened.

He then proceeded to ask me the famous 4 questions that they ask in child support cases to see if you are in fact in 'contempt of court'.

1. Are you working right now? Answer = NO
2. Do you have any savings, income, stocks, bonds etc? Answer = NO
3. Do you have anything you can sell to raise money to pay any purges that might be imposed today? Answer = NONE
4. How much money do you think you can get if you sell your clothes? Answer = I can't sell my clothes because walking around naked is AGAINST THE LAW.

Guess what happened next?

The hearing officer said "I see that you owe nearly $30,000 dollars but UNFORTUNATELY I CANNOT USE CONTEMPT OF COURT TO PUNISH YOU". "I am now ordering your immediate release".

I thought Ms. Chubby was going to have a heart attack!

I waited for my paperwork and then I was brought downstairs to be processed out so they put me back in the cell again to wait. In the mean time, I showed the paperwork to ALL the guys that were there for child support and each and every one of them was able to be "ordered released" with out paying a penny.

To make a long story short, all 16 of us were ordered released because they cannot use contempt of court to punish you. I have no idea what happened upstairs but they called me back in again in front of both hearing officers and the real judge to ask me if I teached the people downstairs about "the law".

I smiled, said yes and the real judge said that I should not do that because of the children etc etc and asked me if I ever planned to pay the outstanding child support balance in my case even though he was aware that I have DNA on record that shows that this is not my bio child.

I told him that I planned to come to an agreement for a whole "payoff amount" and would be throwing my motions shortly...

At this time, they want $15,000 instead of the 30K owed, I declined it and countered with $1.00.

We'll see how that goes.

Bottom line, I'll stop teaching guys how to protect themselves when you start teaching the millions of women that are committing paternity FRAUD not to do so. Deal?

In conclusion: There has not been any changes to the court file itself, nor arrest warrants since they figured out that I will teach everyone that happens to be at the jail how to beat them.

Free without hearing a peep from the CS btards since 2007!

Greenovni

I didn't read all the replies cause I had to comment. Although the OP's case was completely different from mine (i am a younger male that won custody) Ok the backstory is that after about 9 months of dating, at the age of 23 my exg/f became pregnant. We had the baby, I bought a house and my ex quit her job. So i ended up being only means of support over the next 6 years. Even after the pregnancy and our son was put in day care she refused to go back to work. Over those 6 years she only held down 2 parttime jobs for about 3 months each. This put a heavu financial burden on me, that led to problems. We eventually agreed to seperate temporarily and I got custody of our son. None of this was legal, we were still on speaking terms at that time. Anyway she moved back in with her mom. After a month of living there, one weekend she asked me to let our son stay. We had done this before, so I thought nothing of it. The Next morning her mom was calling me asking if I had picked them up during the night, I said no. We were frantic looking for them. We eventually found out from a neighbor of hers that my ex was using her computer to talk to a guy she used to know, and she ran off with him. She hadn't seen this guy in years. I was so worried about my son. A month after they left, they called. My son was crying and begging me to come get him, then she hung up on us. He was too young to understand I had no idea where to drive to and they wouldn't tell me. During this ordeal her mother and I became close friends. My ex was calling and telling anyone who would listen that I was physically abusive to her. Which wadn't true. Anyway during the third month of this ordeal my family help me afford the best lawyer for child custody cases in our area. Through skip tracing we found out they were living 100 miles away in the same state. So our lawyer petitioned the judge to issue a court order to return my son to mine or my mothers custody for an alleged parental kidnapping. But that doesn't work because the female cop who responded refused to do anything, even to check on my sons wellbeing. Well they did get a subpeona to court. So the court day arrives, she doesn't bring our son, only the dude she met online. Of course they both said I was abusive to her and my son. This testimony coming from someone whom I never met was ruled as hearsay. Now when our turn came to testify, the taste of revenge is sweet, I had her own mother and grandmother testify to how unfit she wad, how me and my family have always been the primary care giver to our son, and that her daughter never mentioned any abuse. So in the end I got my son back and she got visitation of 2 weekends a month until she screwed that up. Its been about 4 or 5 years since then and she has not seen our son, except for those first few months.

On a side note to my above post. Not once during the trial did anyone mention that she should pay me child support even though there was a social worker there for that purpose. I supposed she was only there for my info if I didn't get custody. Funny how that works, isn't it?